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The Official Offseason Thread (Part III) - Is it TC yet?!

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Old
06-04-2012, 04:58 PM
  #101
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nothing wrong with Frolov... he got hurt as he was coming into his own...

much better than Wolski that's for sure..

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06-04-2012, 04:58 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Punxrocknyc19 View Post
watch the Rangers dont get Nash but get Vincent Lecavalier...i wouldnt be shocked if he would move his NMC to NYR. he played for Torts when he was a young kid, he would be a much better option than Nash and or Ryan.. he has won before...id gladly deal this years first 2ed dubinsky del zotto for LeCavalier and Lee...something like that..
I would agree if Vinny was a winger. They have too many centers as is. Unless they deal two of them......

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06-04-2012, 05:00 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
What assumption with no basis?

He was under contract with Nashville when he left for the KHL.

He was under contract in the KHL when he left to play for Nashville.

His rights are being sold for 7+ million so he can leave his current KHL team to get more money from another KHL team.

Are you deliberately trying to be ignorant for contradiction's sake?

A "great" hockey player? Are you kidding me?
who cares if he was under contract? what does that have anything to do with him leaving for more money? that assumption (that he left for more money) has no basis at all. didn't seem like he liked either club tbh. jagr didn't leave entirely for money either as much as people wanted to believe that.

he is a great hockey player. do you seriously think that i'm putting him up in gretzky's booth? cause certainly not, but the kid can score goals and make plays. both of which we are missing.

idk if you're deliberately ignorant for argument's sake or just flat out clueless.

And you used keith jone's arguments to make your case... nuff said... you're clueless. keith made a lot of stupid comments in that video and something makes me think that that is the only nashville game you've ever seen.

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nothing wrong with Frolov... he got hurt as he was coming into his own...

much better than Wolski that's for sure..
wolski was hurt as well.

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06-04-2012, 05:00 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Perfect example of why this guy should be nowhere near this club.

Disaster waiting to happen. On the ice. On the bench. In the locker room. And in the tabloids.
Radulov also put up 5 points in 5 games against the Red Wings in the opening round of the PO's, so maybe it is possible for him to bring something positive to a team as well, no?

A coach's main job to me is to get the most out of every player and when Trotz benched Radulov for the second game, it looked like a stupid move to me and it sure didn't work out well for the Preds.
I'm just trying to be fair. I know nothing about what kind of teammate Radulov is and I have to say that he and Torts sure look like they'd mesh as well as oil and water BUUUUUUUT if the Rangers go after him, then it's with Torts' blessing. If he doesn't cost an arm and a leg, I think you go for it. It's not like every move the Rangers have made has worked out great. I had no hope that Wolski was going to pan out and I wanted no part of Kotalik. At least there's potential upside in Radulov that didn't exist with those players.

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06-04-2012, 05:00 PM
  #105
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some of the players on that list faired well for us...

you're reaching like your boy Jones now...
Really some of them worked out? Which ones?

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06-04-2012, 05:01 PM
  #106
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We're getting hung up in semantics.

Parise is no doubt the best player available this summer, much better than Radulov. But the fact remains that it's 2012, not 1997. We can't have the best (and most expensive) players available all the time. This team was 1 point away from the Presidents trophy. But we expended a ton of energy in close games, got beat up blocking 20 shots to prevent 1 goal against, and were obviously gassed in the playoffs due to the battling game in and game out.

We can add Parise, at a premium contract, and keep assets. And I know that's why the argument ends for most people, keeping prospects. You can add Parise and his contract, along with those 20-30 goals and his hockey sense, his intangibles, grit, etc, and sure you get that Presidents trophy. Is it worth the cap hit to leap one standing spot at best if his contract doesn't gut out your role players and shut down lines?

You can add Radulov, another forward and a competent defenseman for a slightly higher combined price than Praise. Add more goals, take minutes away from our top 4 D, and diversify the team a bit more.

That's the debate, not who the better player is. Avery didn't disrupt the team, let alone kill it with cancer. Zherdev didn't hurt the team either, that wicked and selfish little Russian. And as another pointed out, Erixon ditching his old team didn't pollute NY or Connecticut.

Parise is a fantastic addition in 2005 when character, effort, work ethic and hockey sense were foreign words. He's a great addition now too, but the cap complicates it, maybe prevents it even. This is Callahan's team, his mold, I'm not worried about one or two late dinners. I'm worried about too many tight games, too many overtime coin flips, too many 7 game series.


Last edited by DutchShamrock: 06-04-2012 at 05:16 PM.
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06-04-2012, 05:03 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Chief View Post
Radulov also put up 5 points in 5 games against the Red Wings in the opening round of the PO's, so maybe it is possible for him to bring something positive to a team as well, no?

A coach's main job to me is to get the most out of every player and when Trotz benched Radulov for the second game, it looked like a stupid move to me and it sure didn't work out well for the Preds.
I'm just trying to be fair. I know nothing about what kind of teammate Radulov is and I have to say that he and Torts sure look like they'd mesh as well as oil and water BUUUUUUUT if the Rangers go after him, then it's with Torts' blessing. If he doesn't cost an arm and a leg, I think you go for it. It's not like every move the Rangers have made has worked out great. I had no hope that Wolski was going to pan out and I wanted no part of Kotalik. At least there's potential upside in Radulov that didn't exist with those players.
Its the COACH's fault that Radulov doesn't give a crap?

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06-04-2012, 05:03 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Jagr and Radulov comparison?
Did I miss something? Pretty sure that poster didn't compare the two players, he stated that Jones and the other so called experts would **** on Jagr too.

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06-04-2012, 05:04 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by mooskating View Post
who cares if he was under contract? what does that have anything to do with him leaving for more money? that assumption (that he left for more money) has no basis at all. didn't seem like he liked either club tbh. jagr didn't leave entirely for money either as much as people wanted to believe that.

he is a great hockey player. do you seriously think that i'm putting him up in gretzky's booth? cause certainly not, but the kid can score goals and make plays. both of which we are missing.

idk if you're deliberately ignorant for argument's sake or just flat out clueless.

And you used keith jone's arguments to make your case... nuff said... you're clueless. keith made a lot of stupid comments in that video and something makes me think that that is the only nashville game you've ever seen.



wolski was hurt as well.
Dude...lol...its pathetic.

Clueless?

The facts were presented and you're in denial.

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06-04-2012, 05:05 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Barbara Underhill View Post
Did I miss something? Pretty sure that poster didn't compare the two players, he stated that Jones and the other so called experts would **** on Jagr too.
And in that context it implies he's comparing the players and their situations.

"Jagr in the middle of a 120 point season...blah blah"

Would imply that Radulov was doing something worth noting such as Jagr's 120 points...

If he knew what the hell he was talking about and how to say it, he wouldn't look illiterate and confrontational.

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06-04-2012, 05:07 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Hellohf View Post
Is Radulov actually a party animal or is it just something that came from the being home late incident this year?
He has a reputation, but keep in mind, Radulov is Russian, so every breath he takes is gonna be blown out of proportion. Sad that that's still how it works this day and age

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06-04-2012, 05:07 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by DutchShamrock View Post
We're getting hung up in semantics.

Parise is no doubt the best player available this summer, much better than Radulov. But the fact remains that it's 2012, not 1997. We can't have the best (and most expensive) players available all the time. This team was 1 point away from the Presidents trophy. But we expended a ton of energy in close games, got beat up blocking 20 shots to prevent 1 goal against, and were obviously gassed in the playoffs due to the battling game in and game out.

We can add Parise, at a premium contract, and keep assets. And I know that's why the argument ends for most people, keeping prospects. You can add Parise and his contract, along with those 20-30 goals and his hockey sense, his intangibles, grit, etc, and sure you get that Presidents trophy. Is it worth the cap hit to leap one standing spot at best if his contract doesn't gut out your role players and shut down lines?

You can add Radulov, another forward and a competent defenseman for a slightly higher combined price than Praise. Add more goals, take minutes away from our top 4 D, and diversify the team a bit more.

That's the debate, not who the better player is. Avery didn't disrupt the team, let alone kill it with cancer. Zherdev didn't hurt the team either, that wicked and selfish little Russian. And as another pointed out, Erixon ditching his old team didn't pollute NY or Connecticut.

Parise is a fantastic addition in 2005 when character, effort, work ethic and hockey sense were foreign words. His a great addition now too, but the cap complicates it, maybe prevents it even. The is Callahan's team, his mold, I'm not worried about one or two late dinners. I'm worried about too many tight games, too many overtime coin flips, too many 7 game series.
extremely well said.

i am strongly doubting parise's availability with nj's resurgence this year. if they open the year like they ended this year they're going to be unstoppable. being that rad isn't under contract right now (and i doubt he resigns with nashville) there's a rush to get him before july 1st. (asap) we probably won't even know about parise's availability til either radulov goes overseas or accepts an offer from nashville (or anywhere he goes), but we know that radulov is available now. we don't know that parise will be and we need a move. rad is one of our best options.

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Originally Posted by Machinehead View Post
He has a reputation, but keep in mind, Radulov is Russian, so every breath he takes is gonna be blown out of proportion. Sad that that's still how it works this day and age
every exhale is 80 proof.

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06-04-2012, 05:08 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Dude...lol...its pathetic.

Clueless?

The facts were presented and you're in denial.
what facts? rofl. only fact you gave me is that he swapped teams. that may or may not have had ANYTHING to do with money.

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06-04-2012, 05:10 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Zherdev
Frolov
Redden
Gomez
Drury
Lindros
Holik
Driver
Robitaille...
...Esposito.

The list goes on.

Some don't learn.
Sorry man but this makes absolutely no sense. You're trying way too hard to find reasons against adding Radulov.

All you did was list players who didn't work out here.

Want me to list ones that did?

Messier
Graves
Beuekeboom
Jagr
Nylander
Straka
Gaborik
Richards

And now I could insert some snotty line like "some never learn" right?


Radulov for a 2nd round pick, even a 1st if we've already negotiated a deal for him to sign here is a STEAL.

He is not a better "hockey player" than Parise.

He IS a more creative offensive catalyst than Parise.

He will be paid less than Parise.

He fills more of a glaring need than Parise. That doesn't mean adding Parise would be redundant. It means, we would be fine with our lite version of Parise in Callahan. We do not have a player with Radulov's ability to create plays anywhere on the roster or in the system. Period.

In all likelihood, we could (finanicially) trade for Nash, AND add Radulov.

Nobody is suggesting we trade for Radulov and crown ourselves champions without exploring further her options. But deals like this (if the speculation by Brooks is accurate) don't present themselves all that often.

And finally,

Have some more faith in the guys we already have here.

No single player is going to come into this locker room and "destroy chemistry." The room is already far too strong. If anything, the current leadership core rubs off on Radulov and effects him. Not the other way around.

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06-04-2012, 05:10 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by mooskating View Post
extremely well said.

i am strongly doubting parise's availability with nj's resurgence this year. if they open the year like they ended this year they're going to be unstoppable. being that rad isn't under contract right now (and i doubt he resigns with nashville) there's a rush to get him before july 1st. (asap) we probably won't even know about parise's availability til either radulov goes overseas or accepts an offer from nashville (or anywhere he goes), but we know that radulov is available now. we don't know that parise will be and we need a move. rad is one of our best options.
There isn't a rush to get Radulov before July 1. He's an RFA, not a UFA. If a team wants to get the guy without giving him a bad contract and giving up a bunch of assets, they need to trade for his rights. But there is no July 1 deadline to beat other teams to the punch.

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06-04-2012, 05:13 PM
  #116
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what facts? rofl. only fact you gave me is that he swapped teams. that may or may not have had ANYTHING to do with money.
The facts that i stated.

Read.

Comprehend.

I'll recap. Because the children are having trouble reading.

1- Left Nashville for more money in KHL while under contract.

2- Left KHL while under contract.

3- His rights are being sold for 7+ million to another KHL team. He may leave Nashville yet again, while under contract, for more money, yet again.

His is this hard to understand. Do you need pictures?

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06-04-2012, 05:14 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
You sound like a ****ing moron.

You're comparing Jagr. A two time Stanley Cup winning hall of fame player to a player who has proven NOTHING in the NHL.

Highlight videos?

That wasn't a highlight video if one shift. That was two playoff games of not giving a ****.
His point was they ripped Jagr that season and labeled him like he was still in Washington. Basically ignored how he carried and captained that overachieving Ranger team. They are morons. And now you are using their same moronic statements to back up yours.

And just like a youtube highlight reel can be edited to make a player look amazing, a collection of mistakes can achieve the exact opposite. But neither is a true representation of the player. Don't be a hypocrite.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Zherdev
Frolov
Redden
Gomez
Drury
Lindros
Holik
Driver
Robitaille...
...Esposito.

The list goes on.

Some don't learn.
Listing failed acquisitions... what does that prove? Don't acquire players? There can't possibly be a trend or lesson buried in there, it's a wide variety of players and skills represented there. What, don't get concussions?

I see that list and think, hmm we really need a finisher. Let's get Parise and force him to be a finisher. It worked when we made Holik and Gomez be the players we needed, not the players they were. That list tells me to get the right tool for the job, a lesson we learned well more than once. Expensive lessons at that.

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06-04-2012, 05:15 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Zuccarello Awesome View Post
Sorry man but this makes absolutely no sense. You're trying way too hard to find reasons against adding Radulov.

All you did was list players who didn't work out here.

Want me to list ones that did?

Messier
Graves
Beuekeboom
Jagr
Nylander
Straka
Gaborik
Richards

And now I could insert some snotty line like "some never learn" right?


Radulov for a 2nd round pick, even a 1st if we've already negotiated a deal for him to sign here is a STEAL.

He is not a better "hockey player" than Parise.

He IS a more creative offensive catalyst than Parise.

He will be paid less than Parise.

He fills more of a glaring need than Parise. That doesn't mean adding Parise would be redundant. It means, we would be fine with our lite version of Parise in Callahan. We do not have a player with Radulov's ability to create plays anywhere on the roster or in the system. Period.

In all likelihood, we could (finanicially) trade for Nash, AND add Radulov.

Nobody is suggesting we trade for Radulov and crown ourselves champions without exploring further her options. But deals like this (if the speculation by Brooks is accurate) don't present themselves all that often.

And finally,

Have some more faith in the guys we already have here.

No single player is going to come into this locker room and "destroy chemistry." The room is already far too strong. If anything, the current leadership core rubs off on Radulov and effects him. Not the other way around.
Do you know what the word 'catalyst' means?

Radulov is not a catalyst. Ironically the player you mentioned, Parise, is a catalyst.

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06-04-2012, 05:15 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
There isn't a rush to get Radulov before July 1. He's an RFA, not a UFA. If a team wants to get the guy without giving him a bad contract and giving up a bunch of assets, they need to trade for his rights. But there is no July 1 deadline to beat other teams to the punch.
rfa's are more likely to sign a 1 way deal. don't they have to sign that before july 1st? or maybe the rangers just don't want to risk anything in the open market?

idk initial article says something about the 1st.

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06-04-2012, 05:16 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Do you know what the word 'catalyst' means?

Radulov is not a catalyst. Ironically the player you mentioned, Parise, is a catalyst.
Radulov creates a TON of open ice and has excellent playmaking abilities. Substantiate your claim.

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06-04-2012, 05:16 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
And in that context it implies he's comparing the players and their situations.

"Jagr in the middle of a 120 point season...blah blah"

Would imply that Radulov was doing something worth noting such as Jagr's 120 points...

If he knew what the hell he was talking about and how to say it, he wouldn't look illiterate and confrontational.
It doesn't imply that at all, you're either reaching or reading way too deep into things. What it implies is that Jones and the other analysts are just talking heads that will criticize pretty much anyone, especially Europeans that don't play D like Datsyuk. They trashed Gaborik multiple times. It's what they do to sound smart, there is a reason those guys are on TV and not a GM or coach.

I'm not defending Radulov.

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06-04-2012, 05:16 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
The facts that i stated.

Read.

Comprehend.

I'll recap. Because the children are having trouble reading.

1- Left Nashville for more money in KHL while under contract.

2- Left KHL while under contract.

3- His rights are being sold for 7+ million to another KHL team. He may leave Nashville yet again, while under contract, for more money, yet again.

His is this hard to understand. Do you need pictures?
Wow, so much wrong here.

1.) His decision to leave for the KHL had as much to do with homesickness as it did with money. If he had stayed in the NHL, he would be making more money by now. Money couldn't have been the only factor, and if it was... his agent really ****ed that one up.

2.) He is not under contract in the KHL any more than he is in the NHL.

3.) The NHL and KHL have an agreement. There will be no more players signing in either league while under contract in the other.

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06-04-2012, 05:16 PM
  #123
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The thing about the deadline is that while you can say we should've made a move to upgrade the defense/offense, there wasn't really any viable options.

Gaustad for a 1st? No thanks.

Kostitsyn for a 2nd+5th? No thanks.

Kubina for a 2nd+4th? No thanks.

Oduya for a 2nd+3rd? No thanks.

Zidlicky (with another year on his contract) for a 2nd+3rd+prospects? No thanks.

Vermette (with multiple years on his contract) for 2nd+5th? No thanks.

Quincey for a 1st+? No thanks.

It's easy to say we should've been more proactive at the deadline, but even in hindsight, there just weren't deals to be made. Kostitsyn was the only truly offensive rental, and there's a good chance he would've ended up on the bench like Wolski. The idea of moving our 1st for Gaustad is nauseating. And the defensemen that were moved like Kubina and Gill ended up scratches in the playoffs. It would've been great if we could've upgraded at the deadline, but given the pieces moved/prices, selling Wolski for a 3rd was a good move. Scott for a 5th was a waste, but at a very small price.

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06-04-2012, 05:16 PM
  #124
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Originally Posted by DutchShamrock View Post
His point was they ripped Jagr that season and labeled him like he was still in Washington. Basically ignored how he carried and captained that overachieving Ranger team. They are morons. And now you are using their same moronic statements to back up yours.

And just like a youtube highlight reel can be edited to make a player look amazing, a collection of mistakes can achieve the exact opposite. But neither is a true representation of the player. Don't be a hypocrite.



Listing failed acquisitions... what does that prove? Don't acquire players? There can't possibly be a trend or lesson buried in there, it's a wide variety of players and skills represented there. What, don't get concussions?

I see that list and think, hmm we really need a finisher. Let's get Parise and force him to be a finisher. It worked when we made Holik and Gomez be the players we needed, not the players they were. That list tells me to get the right tool for the job, a lesson we learned well more than once. Expensive lessons at that.
Because Radulov doesn't have the work ethic, drive, desire, proper motivation, to be one of the guys who works out.

The guys who worked out had other things than money and themselves as part of their intentions.

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06-04-2012, 05:17 PM
  #125
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I would agree if Vinny was a winger. They have too many centers as is. Unless they deal two of them......
He did play wing briefly with Richards in juniors I believe. I could be mistaken though.

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