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06-04-2012, 03:10 PM
  #76
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Comparing JvR to other second round picks doesn't work because not every draft is the same (you can't compare him to Malkin), and most players picked at 2 go to teams that suck.

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06-04-2012, 03:13 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by toughfighter83 View Post
i dont understand your obsession with jvr, you think he's patrick kane, sidney Crosby, he's nowhere near that and matt read, sean couturier had breakout years and has more goals than jvr, im sick of the injury excuse, he's not what he is maybe not for this team, maybe he's better off somewhere else whether you like it or not.
I think you are selling JvR short if you say that Sean Couturier who only had 27pts in 77 games had a breakout year but JvR almost as many points in about 30 less games is a bust.

Matt Read is alredy 25 years old. He is what he is and is probably pretty close to his ceiling already.

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06-04-2012, 03:52 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Snotbubbles View Post
I think you are selling JvR short if you say that Sean Couturier who only had 27pts in 77 games had a breakout year but JvR almost as many points in about 30 less games is a bust.

Matt Read is alredy 25 years old. He is what he is and is probably pretty close to his ceiling already.
I wouldn't say that. A player that has been in the league for 5-7 years peaks around 25, but Read was at his first NHL year. He'll get some experience, training, etc, it's not like he had a couple of years of NHL training behind him this year. He'll improve imo.

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06-04-2012, 03:54 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Left Circle OneTimer View Post
He sees "2nd overall" and its stuck in his head that this guy must be a superstar so blindly fools himself into believing he is something hes not even close to.

And great point about Matt Read. Undrafted guy out of who knows where (okay i do know where but still) and his first seasons already much better than anything JVR has done while getting much less opportunities to succeed
Don't put words in my mouth. I'm not an impatient idiot. There's a difference. Clearly didn't read what I posted as I mentioned a Sedin, who happened to go 2nd overall.

Matt Read managed to play on the PK and PP in his first year, and was a staple on the second PP unit. I do not have an obsession with JVR, I can just see that the kid oozes potential and should the flyers trade him, it will be the biggest mistake since Signing Pronger to a lifetime contract at 36.

JVR has scored goals when the team has needed them too. He has elevated his game in important moments. You cannot compare JVR to other world talents. You insult me about looking at draft position, but that is all you do. Stop looking at his draft position and expecting him to be a Crosby, Malkin, Stamkos ect. Start looking at around 30 goals 65 points. If JVR was picked in the 7th round you wouldn't have opened your mouth.

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06-04-2012, 04:15 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
Don't put words in my mouth. I'm not an impatient idiot. There's a difference. Clearly didn't read what I posted as I mentioned a Sedin, who happened to go 2nd overall.

Matt Read managed to play on the PK and PP in his first year, and was a staple on the second PP unit. I do not have an obsession with JVR, I can just see that the kid oozes potential and should the flyers trade him, it will be the biggest mistake since Signing Pronger to a lifetime contract at 36.

JVR has scored goals when the team has needed them too. He has elevated his game in important moments. You cannot compare JVR to other world talents. You insult me about looking at draft position, but that is all you do. Stop looking at his draft position and expecting him to be a Crosby, Malkin, Stamkos ect. Start looking at around 30 goals 65 points. If JVR was picked in the 7th round you wouldn't have opened your mouth.
aha!
the shoe is on the other...table, which is turned!

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06-04-2012, 04:18 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by YuioIklo View Post
I wouldn't say that. A player that has been in the league for 5-7 years peaks around 25, but Read was at his first NHL year. He'll get some experience, training, etc, it's not like he had a couple of years of NHL training behind him this year. He'll improve imo.
I didn't say he wouldn't improve, I just said he's already close to his ceiling. I'd be shocked if Matt Read became a consistent 60 pt player. I'd be shocked if JvR didn't. become that.

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06-04-2012, 04:20 PM
  #82
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Let's face it, JVR is a bust. He hasn't lived up to his potential and isn't showing signs that he will. His big playoff series against the Bruins he was flying but that's been his highlight. A good series where the team went down in flames. Big Deal.

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06-04-2012, 04:35 PM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Left Circle OneTimer View Post
Gabriel Landeskog - His first year has been better than any of JVR's not just points wise but defensively and physically while playing on a lower scoring team in a lower scoring year

Tyler Seguin - Second year already has 67 points and leading his team in scoring

Victor Hedman - Has struggled thus far but imprved a lot this year and since coming back from his injury has looked like a true #1d-man

Drew Doughty - Already has a Norris nomination and is a forerunner for the conn smyth this year

Jordan Staal - Top defensive forwards while having multiple decent seasons being stuck behind Malkin and Crosby. 50 points and 25 goals in only 62 games this year

Bobby Ryan - Already one of the most skilled forwards in the league hands wise and has atleast 30 goals in all 4 seasons he has been in the nhl. Already has a 70 point season

Evgeni Malkin - a calder, 2 Art Ross, a Conn Smyth, 3 times Hart & ted lindsay finalist and possible one of each when the year is over.

Eric Staal - 100 Point season, Multiple 70 point seasons playing with no help, lead the playoffs in scoring.

Kari Lehtonen - Great Golie, suffers through a lot of injuries but when healthy is a top goalie in the league and has shwn that this year.

Jason Spezza - Career ppg player, On pace for ver 100 points multiple times, 4th in scoring this year

Danny Heatly - Multiple 100 point and 50 goal seasons.

Daniel Sedin - Art Ross and Ted Lindsay winner

David Legwand - We have to go all to 1998 to find someone who seems to be similiar to jvr in development curve.


All of the other guys bar vcitor hedman had shown signs or already developed into threats as early as their second year. Every single forward there has had a better first or second year than jvr has had up to now and all of them did it straight out of the draft. He had 2 extra development years and still cannot top any of them. Kids a bust
Do not write him off just yet. I am one who wants to see more from him, but to write him off now would not be very smart.

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06-04-2012, 04:37 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
Don't put words in my mouth. I'm not an impatient idiot. There's a difference. Clearly didn't read what I posted as I mentioned a Sedin, who happened to go 2nd overall.

Matt Read managed to play on the PK and PP in his first year, and was a staple on the second PP unit. I do not have an obsession with JVR, I can just see that the kid oozes potential and should the flyers trade him, it will be the biggest mistake since Signing Pronger to a lifetime contract at 36.

JVR has scored goals when the team has needed them too. He has elevated his game in important moments. You cannot compare JVR to other world talents. You insult me about looking at draft position, but that is all you do. Stop looking at his draft position and expecting him to be a Crosby, Malkin, Stamkos ect. Start looking at around 30 goals 65 points. If JVR was picked in the 7th round you wouldn't have opened your mouth.
7th Rounders do not get signed to humongous cap hits when they havent done a single thing as in JVRs situation. Its funny how you call stamkos and crosby when i never mentioned those guys at all. Start looking at around 30 goals and 65 points? I have been doing that for the last 5 hears and he hasn't been close. If thats his potential for his cap hit then get him off my team right now.

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06-04-2012, 04:58 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Hockeypete49 View Post
Do not write him off just yet. I am one who wants to see more from him, but to write him off now would not be very smart.
Hey, I want JVR to succeed. I watch him and I see a talented player, but I also see a player that has great difficulties putting the entire package together. There's no consistency in his game. I hope that after his off season work he's getting done, he comes into camp in the best shape of his career and he's motivated to prove everyone wrong.

But I look at last season after the Carter and Richards trades were made and he was basically given a top line spot. He came to camp injured and that was it. Why he didn't get his hip operated on then is beyond me. With that being said, I think he's got to start feeling some heat from the organization. I hope that heat gets him rolling and he goes on a tear. But I'm not getting my hopes up. He's got to earn top billing and he's got to start doing what great players do - be able to play at a consistently high level and do so consistently, not every three or four games.

I take a look at a guy like Giroux and from day one, he had that drive that he wanted to be great and that he wanted to be "the man" so to speak. I don't see that from JVR. I see a guy who just wants to be one of "the guys". That's the big difference.

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06-04-2012, 05:00 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Left Circle OneTimer View Post
7th Rounders do not get signed to humongous cap hits when they havent done a single thing as in JVRs situation. Its funny how you call stamkos and crosby when i never mentioned those guys at all. Start looking at around 30 goals and 65 points? I have been doing that for the last 5 hears and he hasn't been close. If thats his potential for his cap hit then get him off my team right now.
I don't think anyone is saying thats his potential. Thats his floor.
His potential is PPG 40-50 goal scorer who is blazing fast and can't be taken off the puck.

some people on here hate just cause of the contract (which will be a steal in 2 years)

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06-04-2012, 05:11 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Left Circle OneTimer View Post
7th Rounders do not get signed to humongous cap hits when they havent done a single thing as in JVRs situation. Its funny how you call stamkos and crosby when i never mentioned those guys at all. Start looking at around 30 goals and 65 points? I have been doing that for the last 5 hears and he hasn't been close. If thats his potential for his cap hit then get him off my team right now.
You should look at some cap hits players with 30 goals, 65 points signs for these days. With those numbers JvR looks to fit just about right in. Brandon Dubinsky at 4.2m sound better?

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I don't think anyone is saying thats his potential. Thats his floor.
His potential is PPG 40-50 goal scorer who is blazing fast and can't be taken off the puck.

some people on here hate just cause of the contract (which will be a steal in 2 years)
I'm very high on JvR, but his floor appear to be more of the 20-20 than 30-30 so far. Let's not say that his floor is a season he's not really sniffed at yet after three years (even though I think he can be given a mulligan on this past season).

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06-04-2012, 05:16 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by mirimon View Post
You should look at some cap hits players with 30 goals, 65 points signs for these days. With those numbers JvR looks to fit just about right in. Brandon Dubinsky at 4.2m sound better?



I'm very high on JvR, but his floor appear to be more of the 20-20 than 30-30 so far. Let's not say that his floor is a season he's not really sniffed at yet after three years (even though I think he can be given a mulligan on this past season).
i would be beyond SHOCKED if JvR couldnt consistently break 20-20. Hes been doing that with 1 leg

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06-04-2012, 05:26 PM
  #89
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i would be beyond SHOCKED if JvR couldnt consistently break 20-20. Hes been doing that with 1 leg
He had 21 goals the 2010-11 season. This year he had 11 goals in 43 games, while I do believe that he's not given enough credit around here considering the injuries he had to try to fight through, he still hasn't been quite near being a 30-goal scorer in the NHL though. So to say that that is his floor seems to be taking it a bit too far, imo. I believe that JvR will be a tremendous player for us and look forward to see him play on Giroux's wing for the next few years, but he still has a lot to show.

I should perhaps note that my main problem with JvR so far into his career isn't the lack of production as much as it is his lack of all around play. I thought he'd be a much more complete player by now, but he is still pretty much lost defensively. He is still young of course and can still develop into a pretty solid two-way player.

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06-04-2012, 05:30 PM
  #90
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He had 21 goals the 2010-11 season. This year he had 11 goals in 43 games, while I do believe that he's not given enough credit around here considering the injuries he had to try to fight through, he still hasn't been quite near being a 30-goal scorer in the NHL though. So to say that that is his floor seems to be taking it a bit too far, imo. I believe that JvR will be a tremendous player for us and look forward to see him play on Giroux's wing for the next few years, but he still has a lot to show.

I should perhaps note that my main problem with JvR so far into his career isn't the lack of production as much as it is his lack of all around play. I thought he'd be a much more complete player by now, but he is still pretty much lost defensively. He is still young of course and can still develop into a pretty solid two-way player.
He never got it going this year, thats not his fault...but hes STILL SO YOUNG, and his game (powerforward) needs time to develop. Look at hartnell, where was he at JvR's age?

hes close to a 30-30 player, and he is nowhere near jvr's talent lvl

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06-04-2012, 05:39 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by tuckrr View Post
He never got it going this year, thats not his fault...but hes STILL SO YOUNG, and his game (powerforward) needs time to develop. Look at hartnell, where was he at JvR's age?

hes close to a 30-30 player, and he is nowhere near jvr's talent lvl
Well, his 22-23 yo season Hartnell spent in Norway playing for Vålerenga...



I think we might be talking about two different things though. JvR's talent level is very high, of that I don't think anyone will disagree. What his floor is on the NHL level is a whole other thing though.

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06-04-2012, 05:43 PM
  #92
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Well, his 22-23 yo season Hartnell spent in Norway playing for Vålerenga...



I think we might be talking about two different things though. JvR's talent level is very high, of that I don't think anyone will disagree. What his floor is on the NHL level is a whole other thing though.
Its such a tough thing to calculate at this point, theres really no point in getting in a fuss over it. But I think we both agree, wait and see is the proper approach for the organization. No one will overpay for him at this point, and hes a safe bet (with a great deal of upside)

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06-04-2012, 06:18 PM
  #93
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JVR even stinks in NHL 12! Gets easily knocked off the puck. Worst forward on the team

So, really, he's a disappoint in real life and the video game world.

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06-04-2012, 06:48 PM
  #94
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JVR even stinks in NHL 12! Gets easily knocked off the puck. Worst forward on the team

So, really, he's a disappoint in real life and the video game world.
and lets be honest, its when he ****s up my online versus that i actually care.


haha, i LOVE our team in NHL though, I always favor big, fast lefties and we have:
JvR, Voracek, Couturier (could be better), Hartnell, Jagr..and thats without counting the defense (pronger/coburn are gods)

plus you have G who plays like gretzky

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06-04-2012, 07:00 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by Snotbubbles View Post
I think you are selling JvR short if you say that Sean Couturier who only had 27pts in 77 games had a breakout year but JvR almost as many points in about 30 less games is a bust.

Matt Read is alredy 25 years old. He is what he is and is probably pretty close to his ceiling already.
That isn't true

Look no further then Patrick Sharp at 25 to see that is false

Sharp at 25 was 20 goal + 15 assist guy with Hawks ,, Now he is good for around 30+ goals and 70 pts

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06-04-2012, 08:55 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by Left Circle OneTimer View Post
7th Rounders do not get signed to humongous cap hits when they havent done a single thing as in JVRs situation. Its funny how you call stamkos and crosby when i never mentioned those guys at all. Start looking at around 30 goals and 65 points? I have been doing that for the last 5 hears and he hasn't been close. If thats his potential for his cap hit then get him off my team right now.
You've been waiting for 5 years when he's been in the league for 3? Jvr had 11 goals and 24 points in 43 games, while being injured for that entire time. He was virtually invisible this year, and much of that was due to injuries.

He was on pace for 21 goals and 46 points over 82 games...while being injured and invisible. Voracek had 18 goals and 49 points while being one of everyone's favorite players. They're about the same age, their production per game is about the same, and Jvr was, again, injured and invisible this year. So...you starting to see where I'm going with this?

Basically Jvr gets an inordinate amount of hate. If healthy, he will out perform his contract next year.

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06-04-2012, 09:30 PM
  #97
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You've been waiting for 5 years when he's been in the league for 3? Jvr had 11 goals and 24 points in 43 games, while being injured for that entire time. He was virtually invisible this year, and much of that was due to injuries.

He was on pace for 21 goals and 46 points over 82 games...while being injured and invisible. Voracek had 18 goals and 49 points while being one of everyone's favorite players. They're about the same age, their production per game is about the same, and Jvr was, again, injured and invisible this year. So...you starting to see where I'm going with this?

Basically Jvr gets an inordinate amount of hate. If healthy, he will out perform his contract next year.
well said.

Also, those two (jake and james) play amazing together.

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06-04-2012, 10:27 PM
  #98
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JvR has until the trade deadline to prove he's not such a cupcake or else his career as a Flyer is over.

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06-04-2012, 11:53 PM
  #99
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You've been waiting for 5 years when he's been in the league for 3? Jvr had 11 goals and 24 points in 43 games, while being injured for that entire time. He was virtually invisible this year, and much of that was due to injuries.

He was on pace for 21 goals and 46 points over 82 games...while being injured and invisible. Voracek had 18 goals and 49 points while being one of everyone's favorite players. They're about the same age, their production per game is about the same, and Jvr was, again, injured and invisible this year. So...you starting to see where I'm going with this?

Basically Jvr gets an inordinate amount of hate. If healthy, he will out perform his contract next year.
Hmm, that's exactly the point. JVR, for the past 3 years, has been pretty much invisible except for maybe 10-20 games. Voracek does other things for the team also. He can fill in on the pk, and doesnt look out of place on the first pairing PP. If we are allowed to compare the two, then Voracek is allowed to have a pass for his play the past few seasons like JVR has.

Honestly I think JVR will be 50-60 point player and nothing really more. The thing he needs to do is to STOP being invisible. There are many players out there with skill but can't but it together and look invisible.

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06-05-2012, 12:07 AM
  #100
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JvR is all about the playoffs...just like briere. Give him a healthy playoffs before you consider doing something you will REGRET.

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