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LUONGO THREAD (Fan 960 in Calgary: Luongo to Toronto done at draft)
Doesn't matter. Too many moving parts, if this happens, if that happens...bottom line, it's a big ticket and you should expect far less in a trade. The only saving grace is that Burke might get desperate, but I doubt you smell the 5th of Gardiner for Luongo.
If this happens, if this happens? What the hell are you talking about? It's very simple: If the Leafs aren't happy with his performance and Luongo doesn't want to retire, they waive him. It's very very simple. If the Leafs are happy, they keep him. Those are the only two If's.
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I told ya so. I was right all along!
Roberto Luongo, Keith Ballard & Mason Raymond
for
Rick Nash, John Moore & 6th round pick
Roberto Luongo solidifys the goaltending position and gives Steve Mason a great mentor going forward. They add respectability to their franchise and save face a little by aquiring a big name in exchange for their captain. Luongo gets to play in a non frenzied hockey market and with his good friend and goalie coach Ian Clark.
Keith Ballard adds another solid dman to what would then be a very decent top 5 in Columbus. He gets a fresh start and a chance to play up to his pricetag.
Mason Raymond gets a much needed fresh start and goes to a team that will have no choice but to use him in a top 9 capacity. He is cost controlled being a RFA and might be able to carve out a niche in a less pressure enviroment.
With this trade Columbus can then move Marc Methot for a Dubinsky/Greening top 6 calibre player. They keep their 2nd overall pick and try to draft a new face to the franchise in Alex Galchenyuk or Ryan Murray and try to sign a couple stopgap top 9 forwards like Ryan Smyth, Jarrett Stoll, Jiri Hudler and/or David Jones at all costs, even overpaying a bit.
Dubinsky for Methot
Jarrett Stoll 4 years 16 million
Ryan Smyth 3 years 12 million
Not a cup contender, but they can roll 4 lines, have a solid top 5 and have 10 mill in cap space with two top prospects in Galchenyuk/Murray and Boone Jenner.
Is it just me or shouldn't Luongo's value be going up with each other potential goalie on the market moving off the market?
I know there is Bernier, Lindback and Harding out there but do any of them have a 30+ winning season? Let alone multiple 40 win seasons? I think you guys are forgetting how much extra money teams get from getting into the playoffs. He will not be going for a Komisarek type player, at worst high end pick/ high end young player +
Oh yes they can. Not sure it'll be Toronto, but I remind you that this is a business as well. 10 more years X 5.8 million per year = spare parts + a decent prospect + a decent pick.
Salary cap wise it is $5.3 million x 10 years. Actually salary is $47 million over 10 year. And in all likelihood the contract won't matter after 6-7 years, so it would be a salary cap hit of $5.3 million x 7 years.
Is it just me or shouldn't Luongo's value be going up with each other potential goalie on the market moving off the market?
I know there is Bernier, Lindback and Harding out there but do any of them have a 30+ winning season? Let alone multiple 40 win seasons? I think you guys are forgetting how much extra money teams get from getting into the playoffs. He will not be going for a Komisarek type player, at worst high end pick/ high end young player +
Your right his value is going up just based on supply/demand basic economics.
I think that a deal is already in the works though, because otherwise Brian Burke could have aquired Vokoun for cheap.
Roberto Luongo, Keith Ballard & Mason Raymond
for
Rick Nash, John Moore & 6th round pick
Roberto Luongo solidifys the goaltending position and gives Steve Mason a great mentor going forward. They add respectability to their franchise and save face a little by aquiring a big name in exchange for their captain. Luongo gets to play in a non frenzied hockey market and with his good friend and goalie coach Ian Clark.
Keith Ballard adds another solid dman to what would then be a very decent top 5 in Columbus. He gets a fresh start and a chance to play up to his pricetag.
Mason Raymond gets a much needed fresh start and goes to a team that will have no choice but to use him in a top 9 capacity. He is cost controlled being a RFA and might be able to carve out a niche in a less pressure enviroment.
With this trade Columbus can then move Marc Methot for a Dubinsky/Greening top 6 calibre player. They keep their 2nd overall pick and try to draft a new face to the franchise in Alex Galchenyuk or Ryan Murray and try to sign a couple stopgap top 9 forwards like Ryan Smyth, Jarrett Stoll, Jiri Hudler and/or David Jones at all costs, even overpaying a bit.
Dubinsky for Methot
Jarrett Stoll 4 years 16 million
Ryan Smyth 3 years 12 million
Not a cup contender, but they can roll 4 lines, have a solid top 5 and have 10 mill in cap space with two top prospects in Galchenyuk/Murray and Boone Jenner.
Change Moore+6th for a 2nd and sold. If Luongo waives his NTC clause for Columbus. A big If.
One of Gardiner OR the 5th Overall will be coming back to Vancouver. I posted back in early May over at CC that I was told BEFORE the playoffs started that Luongo to Toronto was close (deal in principle had been agreed to at the trade deadline but Gillis wanted to go into playoffs with both). My source has only ever divulged a few things over the years, but always accurate. Don't be surprised if it's the 5th overall and Burke uses the signing of Shultz to say "this is the equivalent of a top 5 pick (which it would be if Shultz were available to draft). My feeling is that Gillis would prefer Gardiner which would also result in Shultz as well, but Burke would rather trade the 5th.
To Leaf fans... don't shoot the messenger... and also realize that Burke is under a lot of pressure with the new ownership to make the playoffs this year. Trading the 5th overall pick which would help the Leafs in 2-3 years is of no consequence to Burke or their ownership right now. Their #1 PRIORITY is to make the playoffs next year. Its tough giving up GOOD value for other good players, but thats the way it works... every team fan's over-values it's own players but in the end both GM's will make a deal that will work out for both teams.
Luke Schenn is NOT a cap dump by any means. He doesn't get as much hype because he doesn't provide the offense that the likes of Karlsson, Doughty, Pietrangelo and Myers do but he's still one of the best young defensemen in the league, especially from a strictly defensive standpoint. I fully believe if developed right the guy is the next Adam Foote. Starting from his rookie year when he was only 18 years of age, he's perennially been among the top hitters. It's one thing to put up good numbers at a young age and it's another to really stand out as an 18/19/20 year old in a league full of men in the physical department.
Canucks fans should be happy if Luongo lands Luke Schenn. He would be a fantastic addition to their D core.
Ok, there is nothing wrong with Luongo's contract. Real dollars Mean ****ing nothing to the Leafs. The cap hit is 5.3, and to Toronto that's what they care about. 10m on a quality tender that will drag them kicking and screaming into the PO's, and will make them even more money...it's a no brainer.
10M is an investment, and at the end of the day, it'll make the team better. The guy is an elite goalie. Why is this a discussion. The trade may or may not happen, but if it does...expect the leafs give up something that the fans rather they didn't.
One of Gardiner OR the 5th Overall will be coming back to Vancouver. I posted back in early May over at CC that I was told BEFORE the playoffs started that Luongo to Toronto was close (deal in principle had been agreed to at the trade deadline but Gillis wanted to go into playoffs with both). My source has only ever divulged a few things over the years, but always accurate. Don't be surprised if it's the 5th overall and Burke uses the signing of Shultz to say "this is the equivalent of a top 5 pick (which it would be if Shultz were available to draft). My feeling is that Gillis would prefer Gardiner which would also result in Shultz as well, but Burke would rather trade the 5th.
To Leaf fans... don't shoot the messenger... and also realize that Burke is under a lot of pressure with the new ownership to make the playoffs this year. Trading the 5th overall pick which would help the Leafs in 2-3 years is of no consequence to Burke or their ownership right now. Their #1 PRIORITY is to make the playoffs next year. Its tough giving up GOOD value for other good players, but thats the way it works... every team fan's over-values it's own players but in the end both GM's will make a deal that will work out for both teams.
This is consistent with what Hockey Widow has been saying, that a deal in principal had been worked out at the deadline but that the trigger just never got pulled.
I honestly don't care if it's the 5th overall pick or Gardiner. I think the 5th overall pick is definitely more exciting with the potential it could be someone like Grigorenko, or we could move up to get Yakupov, but I'll take either.
Ok, there is nothing wrong with Luongo's contract. Real dollars Mean ****ing nothing to the Leafs. The cap hit is 5.3, and to Toronto that's what they care about. 10m on a quality tender that will drag them kicking and screaming into the PO's, and will make them even more money...it's a no brainer.
10M is an investment, and at the end of the day, it'll make the team better. The guy is an elite goalie. Why is this a discussion. The trade may or may not happen, but if it does...expect the leafs give up something that the fans rather they didn't.
Here is a guy who UNDERSTANDS the business end of the game.
Why does every Leafs' proposal seem to involve a cap dump with one of their overpaid defenceman? I doubt the Canucks want to help the Leafs open up a spot in their top four so they can go after Schultz. I hate to remind you guys but the Canucks will be in on that player.
The Canucks hold the cards here. They don't have to trade Luongo. If the Leafs want a trade it's got to make sense for the Canucks. Try to understand that.
Luke Schenn is NOT a cap dump by any means. He doesn't get as much hype because he doesn't provide the offense that the likes of Karlsson, Doughty, Pietrangelo and Myers do but he's still one of the best young defensemen in the league, especially from a strictly defensive standpoint. I fully believe if developed right the guy is the next Adam Foote. Starting from his rookie year when he was only 18 years of age, he's perennially been among the top hitters. It's one thing to put up good numbers at a young age and it's another to really stand out as an 18/19/20 year old in a league full of men in the physical department.
Canucks fans should be happy if Luongo lands Luke Schenn. He would be a fantastic addition to their D core.
Given how poor the Leafs defense is, why don't the Leafs use Schenn in more important situations? How come the Leafs put Komisarek up against stronger competition than Schenn?
The Canucks hold the cards here. They don't have to trade Luongo. If the Leafs want a trade it's got to make sense for the Canucks. Try to understand that.
The Canucks don't have to trade him but it would be in their best interest to do so. Toronto doesn't have to acquire him but it is arguably in their best interest to do so. However, Toronto, if they're acquiring him in order to make the playoffs immediately, probably thinks it shouldn't trade away the pieces that would help get them there. Luongo can't do it by himself.
One of the biggest myths out there. If Team Canada keeps Brodeur in net they lose. Canada put in Luongo, in the biggest pressure games of his career, and he came through and played very very well.
To Vancouver:
Luke Schenn
1st overall pick TOR
Armstrong/Conolly/Lombardi
To Toronto:
Roberto Luongo
1st overall pick VAN
Makes too much sense. TOR gets rid of dead cap and is able to sign other players, or take on other contracts. They also keep Gardiner, which basically means Schultz will come and essentially replace Schenn's spot. They instantly become a playoff bound team with Luongo. There's really no other goalie out there atm who can put them into this position, and Burke is definitely desperate. Additionally the first round pick receive ensures that they are still pursuing the youth movement.
Vancouver focuses on Schneider leading the team, without all this distracting drama. They receive a young defenseman who had a poor year but can rebound back. Vancouver does not have any legit young defenseman, and Schenn has the potential to become one. Because Vancouver's window closes in a couple years, the 5th overall injects youth to the team.
Thomas and Vokoun gone in 24 hours, Luongo's value just grew a whole lot.
The Canucks don't have to trade him but it would be in their best interest to do so. Toronto doesn't have to acquire him but it is arguably in their best interest to do so. However, Toronto, if they're acquiring him in order to make the playoffs immediately, probably thinks it shouldn't trade away the pieces that would help get them there. Luongo can't do it by himself.
And the Canucks aren't interested in helping hook up the Leafs so they can make the playoffs either, at our own teams expense. That's why the 5th overall pick probably makes the most sense (over someone like Gardiner).
