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Old
06-05-2012, 07:30 AM
  #101
Spongolium*
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I just want a big RH physical defenseman. Offense can always be taught. Defensive positioning can't.

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06-05-2012, 08:50 AM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
I just want a big RH physical defenseman. Offense can always be taught. Defensive positioning can't.
I think it's the other way around. Better defense and positioning comes with experience. Offensive touch though is something you've quite often either got, or you simply don't. Lord knows I didn't as a player.

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06-05-2012, 09:37 AM
  #103
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I think it's the other way around. Better defense and positioning comes with experience. Offensive touch though is something you've quite often either got, or you simply don't. Lord knows I didn't as a player.
I would disagree for defensemen, agree for forwards.

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06-05-2012, 12:00 PM
  #104
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I would disagree for defensemen, agree for forwards.
So your saying defensemen can't be taught how to defend and forwards can't be taught how to attack? Ok....

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Old
06-05-2012, 12:15 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
I don't think the Flyers are drafting a forward in the first this year. From what I've been informed from my scouting friends, the Flyers seem to be really big on Brady Skjei. From what I was told, their draft board for defensemen at 20 goes something like this:
Skjei
Finn
Lindholm
Koekkoek
Bystrom
Schmaltz

Anyways, the way things are, they're going to end up with a very good prospect on the D. As I've mentioned before, this year is an awesome year for defensemen. All of the defensemen expected to go in the first round all have the potential to be top two guys. I don't think I've seen a draft year like this before where the defensemen have that kind of upside. I know that some scouts think that this is a weak draft, but I think it's weak in terms of impact forwards. Once you get outside Yakupov, Grigorenko, Galchenyuk, Forsberg and Teravainen, the forwards seem to be a bit of a crap shoot.
While defense is obviously the Flyers' most glaring need and this draft being (as you say) great for defense, the intriguing story line is Grigorenko's falling stock. I know Craig Button's analysis has been roundly criticized for (among other things) listing Grigorenko at 20, if GMs really do give him the cold shoulder and he's on the boards when the Flyers' turn comes around, it would be tough not to pick him up.

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06-05-2012, 12:43 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by BernieParent View Post
While defense is obviously the Flyers' most glaring need and this draft being (as you say) great for defense, the intriguing story line is Grigorenko's falling stock. I know Craig Button's analysis has been roundly criticized for (among other things) listing Grigorenko at 20, if GMs really do give him the cold shoulder and he's on the boards when the Flyers' turn comes around, it would be tough not to pick him up.
Agree. BPA always, always applies. Any player at 20 is likely 2-4 years away from the NHL. A lot of our current needs could change over that time. That said, in this draft, it's fairly likely the BPA available will be a D-man.

Grigorenko would easily be the most talented player available to us at 20, but I would be absolutely stunned if he made it that far. He starts gaining serious value around pick 10-12.

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06-05-2012, 01:50 PM
  #107
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holy **** if we get grigorenko..

why would you even tease me with that though?

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06-05-2012, 04:23 PM
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BernieParent View Post
While defense is obviously the Flyers' most glaring need and this draft being (as you say) great for defense, the intriguing story line is Grigorenko's falling stock. I know Craig Button's analysis has been roundly criticized for (among other things) listing Grigorenko at 20, if GMs really do give him the cold shoulder and he's on the boards when the Flyers' turn comes around, it would be tough not to pick him up.
I would LOVE Grigorenko in Philadelphia. If he fell that far, Holmgren would be a fool not to draft him. I know that the scouts have raked him over the coals, but alot of the negativity he's received has been far worse than what he deserved. He was playing on a bum ankle and with mono. He showed up at the combine 15 pounds lighter than he normally weighs.

But yeah, this is a real defense heavy draft this year. And if you look at all the defensemen available, there really isn't a lot that separates the top guys. It's a real bountiful draft.

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Old
06-05-2012, 04:39 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
I would LOVE Grigorenko in Philadelphia. If he fell that far, Holmgren would be a fool not to draft him. I know that the scouts have raked him over the coals, but alot of the negativity he's received has been far worse than what he deserved. He was playing on a bum ankle and with mono. He showed up at the combine 15 pounds lighter than he normally weighs.

But yeah, this is a real defense heavy draft this year. And if you look at all the defensemen available, there really isn't a lot that separates the top guys. It's a real bountiful draft.
It Strikes again! He will be the next one we draft then, I guarantee it! Giroux-Mono, Couturier-Mono, Grigorenko-Mono. Its a done deal as far as I'm concerned

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06-05-2012, 05:36 PM
  #110
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It Strikes again! He will be the next one we draft then, I guarantee it! Giroux-Mono, Couturier-Mono, Grigorenko-Mono. Its a done deal as far as I'm concerned
Giroux had mono his draft year like Couts? Seriously?

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06-05-2012, 06:00 PM
  #111
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Giroux had mono his draft year like Couts? Seriously?
Not his draft year no, the year before the OHL draft which is why most think he wasn't drafted into the OHL. He was then invited to Gatineau in the Q which is kind of looked at as a lesser league, and most likely impacted him being drafted so low for the NHL Entry draft.

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06-05-2012, 06:54 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by PALE PWNR View Post
Not his draft year no, the year before the OHL draft which is why most think he wasn't drafted into the OHL. He was then invited to Gatineau in the Q which is kind of looked at as a lesser league, and most likely impacted him being drafted so low for the NHL Entry draft.
Duni why it is still considered such a lesser league... while it used to be, quite obviously, in the last few years it has became the lowest scoring league. (Cba checking it, but sure it has been, read a few articles on it, and how the WHL is the highest now.)

Which was also one of the reasons I was happy as hell with drafting Couts... most PPG of any draft eligable player in the league with least GPG!

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06-05-2012, 07:14 PM
  #113
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The Flyers better get this mono-ridden Canadian girl on payroll before Brian Burke finds out she exists.

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Old
06-05-2012, 10:38 PM
  #114
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That's right, the Flyers build their nucleus through nucleosis.

I don't expect Grigorenko to fall that far, despite some "experts' " opinions and questions of his heart. The Russian factor is overblown, too. If he makes it out of the top 10, I'll be shocked. There are too many teams who need a big centre.

But ... it's too tantalizing to see C Button's ranking, with Grigorenko at 20. Too coincidental?

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06-05-2012, 10:40 PM
  #115
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if he makes it out of the top 10, we need to trade up and steal him.
Kids a freak.

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06-05-2012, 11:42 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by BernieParent View Post
That's right, the Flyers build their nucleus through nucleosis.

I don't expect Grigorenko to fall that far, despite some "experts' " opinions and questions of his heart. The Russian factor is overblown, too. If he makes it out of the top 10, I'll be shocked. There are too many teams who need a big centre.

But ... it's too tantalizing to see C Button's ranking, with Grigorenko at 20. Too coincidental?
Button usually predicts overall potential when taking everything into consideration. People hate him, but he does a decent job predicting which players fall abit. Grigorenko wont fall to far.

I got the top 5 going:

EDM: Yakupov
CLB: Murray
MTL: Galchenyuk
NYI: Dumba
TOR: Grigorenko

I see a defender going to the Isles ans them taking a chance on Dumba. CLB will either take Murray or Forsberg.

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06-05-2012, 11:57 PM
  #117
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Hartnell-Giroux-Voracek
JVR-Couturier-Simmonds
Wellwood-Schenn-Read
Talbot-Grigorenko-Briere
Cousins/Rinaldo

Coburn-Timonen
Grossmann-Gustaffson
Meszaros-Suter
Bourdon

Bryzgalov
Hovinen

Make it happen Homer! Crush them! Make them suffer! Mwahahahahaha!!!!

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Old
06-06-2012, 12:26 AM
  #118
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I think Wellwood is going to break out next season. He did pretty well during the playoffs, and does deserve a roster spot next year for sure. Lets see what he can do for us.

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Old
06-06-2012, 12:59 AM
  #119
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If he somehow falls that far (which honestly he wont), he most likely wont make the team next season. He needs atleast one more season in juniors.

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Old
06-06-2012, 01:26 AM
  #120
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I know Just messing around. Can you imagine how good that roster would be? Only real weakness is goaltending, and it's better than it has been.

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Old
06-06-2012, 02:31 AM
  #121
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Hartnell - Giroux - Briere
vanRiemsdyk - Couturier- Grigorenko
Simmonds - Schenn- Voracek

Read- Talbot - Wellwood
Rinaldo - Zolnierczyk - Sestito

mwahahah

we dont need no stinkin' defense!

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Old
06-06-2012, 02:34 AM
  #122
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Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
If he somehow falls that far (which honestly he wont), he most likely wont make the team next season. He needs atleast one more season in juniors.
idk, i think he could contribute right away

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Old
06-06-2012, 09:16 AM
  #123
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Grigs is really not that worth arguing over. He WILL not be there at 20. Just won't happen. It would be like Couturier dropping to 20 last year.

Teams at 8-14 are salivating over Grigs falling to them. Flyers at 20... it's a pipe dream. Craig Button is the only prospect evaluator that has him at 20... everyone else... I mean everyone I've seen.... he's top 8. The chances that all teams subscribe to Button's rankings versus their own which probably run the gambit (like other projections) is nil.

As for us at 20, part of me wonders if the Flyers don't seriously consider a guy like Wilson with the pick. Talk about a kid who fits the Flyers tradition. I want Koekkoek, but I could easily see them taking Hertl or Wilson over a defenseman.

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06-06-2012, 09:51 AM
  #124
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Grigs is really not that worth arguing over. He WILL not be there at 20. Just won't happen.
I agree. What is interesting is Carolina at 8. They are interested in acquiring a top 6 forward and are loaded with young dmen. They talk about Parise and Staal but I doubt they get either. Would the 20th + JVR get you the 8th + McBain or Dumoulin? The Flyers get a top 4 dman plus can draft another one at 8 or catch a falling Grigs.

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06-06-2012, 10:36 AM
  #125
sa cyred
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idk, i think he could contribute right away
Eh, most scouts agree that he needs one more season to dominate juniors and solidify himself.

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Originally Posted by Broad Street Elite View Post
Grigs is really not that worth arguing over. He WILL not be there at 20. Just won't happen. It would be like Couturier dropping to 20 last year.

Teams at 8-14 are salivating over Grigs falling to them. Flyers at 20... it's a pipe dream. Craig Button is the only prospect evaluator that has him at 20... everyone else... I mean everyone I've seen.... he's top 8. The chances that all teams subscribe to Button's rankings versus their own which probably run the gambit (like other projections) is nil.

As for us at 20, part of me wonders if the Flyers don't seriously consider a guy like Wilson with the pick. Talk about a kid who fits the Flyers tradition. I want Koekkoek, but I could easily see them taking Hertl or Wilson over a defenseman.
I would be happy with Hertl, but not Wilson. Koekkoek is behind Finn and Lindholm for me. I'd honestly maybe take Hertl before Koekkoek. Whoever takes Hertl is going to take a steal, hands down. But I do think a defender is more important to the team.

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