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The (heavily moderated) Fire Howson/Priest thread.

View Poll Results: Which of the following would you approve as owner?
Fire Priest/Howson immediately 60 58.25%
Fire Howson immediately/retain Priest for the next year 5 4.85%
Fire Priest immediately/retain Howson for the next year 29 28.16%
Something else 9 8.74%
Voters: 103. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
06-05-2012, 08:24 PM
  #326
Roadman
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Originally Posted by Timeless Winter View Post
'Defending Howson' sounds like an oxymoron, let's see what Jeff Little is saying about him in November when we're dead last and mathematically eliminated from playoff contention.
Just a ray of sunshine.

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06-05-2012, 08:56 PM
  #327
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Originally Posted by Timeless Winter View Post
'Defending Howson' sounds like an oxymoron, let's see what Jeff Little is saying about him in November when we're dead last and mathematically eliminated from playoff contention.
Because of course this is completely inevitable to the point that there's just no reason to play the games at all, much like how last year we were guaranteed of a better season 'cause we'd just added Jeff Carter.

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06-05-2012, 10:26 PM
  #328
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Originally Posted by aRussian View Post
Not sure what to make of it or where to post, but I haven't seen anyone else bring it up...

http://bluejackets.nhl.com/club/news...id=DL|CBJ|home

Our ole' buddy Chris Clark replaces Wright as developmental coach. Good idea or bad?
Just once as the Jackets try to rebuild the organization could they get someone who has done the job before with some degree of success? We now will have relatively inexperienced guys heading up scouting and player development.

I know, I know Hitch was a proven winner but other than that it seems they're throwing stuff on the wall and hoping it sticks. And don't forget we have that extremely experienced coach/scout/exec Vinnie Prospal waiting in the wings.

And yes I know Patrick was successful 20 years ago.

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06-05-2012, 11:49 PM
  #329
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
There are many, many more season ticket holders than there are F.A.N.S.. It's the majority here, but that says nothing of the fanbase in general.

The vocal radicals always want to believe they're the majority and that they speak for everyone. They never are and they never do.
I basically agree with this statement (although I don't think there's anything "radical" about a sports fan saying his team's GM is crap and should be fired).

But I think it needs to be added that the "vocal radicals" are the ones who care enough to stay and speak their mind. And the fanbase is, beyond question, shrinking.

If you consider the vocal fans the voice for those who have started coming dressed as empty seats, I think they may well outnumber the remaining season ticket holders.

I will bet good money season ticket sales are down for the coming season (regardless of what does or does not happen between now and opening night) despite having the all-star game. Has that *ever* happened before? How embarrassing will *that* be?

How long will we have to wait to hear Scott Howson claim our fanbase is "not that far away?"

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Old
06-06-2012, 08:41 AM
  #330
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Originally Posted by TBJF View Post
I don't think there's anything "radical" about a sports fan saying his team's GM is crap and should be fired
And this right here is why the entertainment industry sucks to work in.

If you have a bad meal at your favorite restaurant do you walk into the kitchen and demand the chef be fired?

If the lady at Starbucks forgets your extra foam, do you get on a message board and demand she be fired?

If the box you receive from Amazon comes a little beat up, do you call up UPS and demand the driver be fired?

Yet for some reason, when entertainment is involved it is "OK" because people are fans and trying to "Protect" the thing they care about.

I've watched grown men cry because in an NBA playoff game they hit the wrong button on a 250 button TV switcher, and the whole country saw 2 seconds of bars instead of the replay, and they knew they would never work as Technical Director again.

I was associate producer on a video game who's development time was cut in half by the publisher. It was part of the reason I quit, but when the game shipped, one review gave it a 2 out of 10 and mentioned that those who let a game ship in that condition should be fired.

As race director at a quarter mile drag strip, each season I would have several racers who would appeal to the track owner to have me fired, because they didn't like the official ruling I had to make.

In the 5 years I've worked in the "Corporate" world never once has anyone called for me to be fired. And while I miss the excitement of entertaining others, I don't miss the other side of the equation. You work hard, not only in "normal" office hours, but also nights, weekends. While others are being entertained, you're the one busting your butt working the venue, setting up the TV cameras, making sure the crowds are kept away from the fireworks blast zone, or finishing up a 100 hour week squashing bugs to meet the publisher's deadline.

All to make someone else happy and forget about their sad pathetic lives for a few hours.

And if you slip up anywhere...
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBJF View Post
I don't think there's anything "radical" about a sports fan saying his team's GM is crap and should be fired
...you get this

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Old
06-06-2012, 10:05 AM
  #331
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Originally Posted by Skraut View Post
And this right here is why the entertainment industry sucks to work in.

If you have a bad meal at your favorite restaurant do you walk into the kitchen and demand the chef be fired?

If the lady at Starbucks forgets your extra foam, do you get on a message board and demand she be fired?

If the box you receive from Amazon comes a little beat up, do you call up UPS and demand the driver be fired?
Most reasonable people would not. But trust me...anyone who's worked a day of their lives in retail or customer service will tell you that enormous numbers of these very people exist. A shirt's out of stock? Get me a manager! The last set of tongs on the floor is damaged? I want corporate's number! My credit card was declined? I know the owner, and you've been most unhelpful and rude!

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Old
06-06-2012, 10:18 AM
  #332
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Originally Posted by Skraut View Post
If you have a bad meal at your favorite restaurant do you walk into the kitchen and demand the chef be fired?
Not a good analogy. If I get a bad meal. I report it to the manager and let him deal with it. If it becomes a habit, I quit going. There are hundreds of restaurants within driving distance of a dinner. There is one one professional hockey team within driving distance of a week night game after work. I might also recommend to the manager that a new chef would be in order.

Also, I don't walk into Priests or JPM's office and request Howson be fired. So, the whole "walk into the kitchen" part is poor as well.

The entertainment industry as a whole doesn't apply. For example, if you don't like an actress you don't go watch her. It's an easy fix. There is no reason to demand they be fired. Ratings or total box office numbers take care of the problem.

The sports industry is tough. You usually have one local team. You have little recourse. If you quit going, the owner will simply move. You end up throwing the baby out with the bath water. No, I don't feel sorry for someone that has one of 30 available jobs at the highest level. Do the job or bring someone else in. There aren't only 30 people in the world that can do that job. I am here to be entertained by my local team. I would like to have a chance more than once a decade at the cup. We had one chance. An outside chance. My expectations are reasonable.

There is no reason to give this guy more opportunities. He will find another job in the industry. He will survive.

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Old
06-06-2012, 10:27 AM
  #333
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Originally Posted by TBJF View Post
If you consider the vocal fans the voice for those who have started coming dressed as empty seats, I think they may well outnumber the remaining season ticket holders.
That's the whole point. Many people, including season ticket holders, have long since given up on this team. They have moved on from anger to apathy and it will take a lot to get them back in the fold now.

People are already voting with their wallet. Look at the attendance, particularly during weekdays.

In political terms, Howson's favorability is under 50%.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skraut View Post
And this right here is why the entertainment industry sucks to work in.

***
If you have a bad meal at your favorite restaurant do you walk into the kitchen and demand the chef be fired?

If the lady at Starbucks forgets your extra foam, do you get on a message board and demand she be fired?

If the box you receive from Amazon comes a little beat up, do you call up UPS and demand the driver be fired?

Yet for some reason, when entertainment is involved it is "OK" because people are fans and trying to "Protect" the thing they care about.

In the 5 years I've worked in the "Corporate" world never once has anyone called for me to be fired. And while I miss the excitement of entertaining others, I don't miss the other side of the equation. You work hard, not only in "normal" office hours, but also nights, weekends. While others are being entertained, you're the one busting your butt working the venue, setting up the TV cameras, making sure the crowds are kept away from the fireworks blast zone, or finishing up a 100 hour week squashing bugs to meet the publisher's deadline.

All to make someone else happy and forget about their sad pathetic lives for a few hours.

And if you slip up anywhere...

...you get this
I'm sorry, but I don't share your appraisal of the world.

Talk to some people in the finance world. Talk to a CEO. Talk to a managing partner at a law firm. A restaurant manager. Talk to a school teacher in this era where test scores determine everythin.

We live in a performance based world and for many of us it is "what have you done for me lately?" Entertainment is hardly alone in this respect.

Want to see it in the restaurant business? Look at what Yelp is doing to that industry.

Many industries actually use their online feedback in performance reviews of managers and employees.

I have a hard time feeling any more pity for Scott Howson than I do for Jamie Dimon. If you want to be at the top of your industry, you have to have thick skin.

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Old
06-06-2012, 10:29 AM
  #334
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Originally Posted by TBJF View Post
I basically agree with this statement (although I don't think there's anything "radical" about a sports fan saying his team's GM is crap and should be fired).
There is nothing radical about it. Have kind of the same opinion there you do.

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Old
06-06-2012, 10:32 AM
  #335
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skraut View Post
And this right here is why the entertainment industry sucks to work in.

If you have a bad meal at your favorite restaurant do you walk into the kitchen and demand the chef be fired?

If the lady at Starbucks forgets your extra foam, do you get on a message board and demand she be fired?

If the box you receive from Amazon comes a little beat up, do you call up UPS and demand the driver be fired?
Well, if the meal/coffee/shipments are bad for 4-5 years, then one has to wonder if the person in charge realizes that the bad employee is hurting the business.

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06-06-2012, 10:32 AM
  #336
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Originally Posted by CapnCornelius View Post
Talk to a CEO.
CEO's in retail were bounced on a regular basis. They ended up doing the circuit from one retailer to another. That was in the 90's, but it's probably still the same.

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Old
06-06-2012, 10:45 AM
  #337
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skraut View Post
And this right here is why the entertainment industry sucks to work in.

If you have a bad meal at your favorite restaurant do you walk into the kitchen and demand the chef be fired?

If the lady at Starbucks forgets your extra foam, do you get on a message board and demand she be fired?

If the box you receive from Amazon comes a little beat up, do you call up UPS and demand the driver be fired?

Yet for some reason, when entertainment is involved it is "OK" because people are fans and trying to "Protect" the thing they care about.

I've watched grown men cry because in an NBA playoff game they hit the wrong button on a 250 button TV switcher, and the whole country saw 2 seconds of bars instead of the replay, and they knew they would never work as Technical Director again.

I was associate producer on a video game who's development time was cut in half by the publisher. It was part of the reason I quit, but when the game shipped, one review gave it a 2 out of 10 and mentioned that those who let a game ship in that condition should be fired.

As race director at a quarter mile drag strip, each season I would have several racers who would appeal to the track owner to have me fired, because they didn't like the official ruling I had to make.

In the 5 years I've worked in the "Corporate" world never once has anyone called for me to be fired. And while I miss the excitement of entertaining others, I don't miss the other side of the equation. You work hard, not only in "normal" office hours, but also nights, weekends. While others are being entertained, you're the one busting your butt working the venue, setting up the TV cameras, making sure the crowds are kept away from the fireworks blast zone, or finishing up a 100 hour week squashing bugs to meet the publisher's deadline.

All to make someone else happy and forget about their sad pathetic lives for a few hours.

And if you slip up anywhere...

...you get this
Maybe you're right about generally working in the entertainment industry. But nobody's calling for Howson to be fired because of any specific moment or loss. It's been 5 years of mostly crap. That does not qualify as a small sample size.

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06-06-2012, 10:54 AM
  #338
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Originally Posted by Ar-too View Post
Maybe you're right about generally working in the entertainment industry. But nobody's calling for Howson to be fired because of any specific moment or loss. It's been 5 years of mostly crap. That does not qualify as a small sample size.
Bingo. This is not a one shot thing with Howson, but it has reached a boiling point. Restuarants, Movie theatres, etc are all over the place, one bad experience can sour you on a specific place, but there's another place right next door, thats not likely to happen when your the lone product in the market, you tend to give it more time if its a product you like.

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06-06-2012, 11:04 AM
  #339
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Originally Posted by blahblah View Post
CEO's in retail were bounced on a regular basis. They ended up doing the circuit from one retailer to another. That was in the 90's, but it's probably still the same.
Hasn't changed.

Happens at all levels of management in retail. As MB suggested, it is a thankless profession. Pay at the lower levels is not good. Hours are horrible. People are not even vaguely appreciative when they do receive good service.

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06-06-2012, 01:03 PM
  #340
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Originally Posted by blahblah View Post
CEO's in retail were bounced on a regular basis. They ended up doing the circuit from one retailer to another. That was in the 90's, but it's probably still the same.
Right, and when someone who was a dismal failure at one spot ended up in another, everyone was supposed to be happy because "This guy has experience doing blah blah blah."

Let's say there are two options for CEO, and let's say both are 45 years old. One started working with the company at 16 as a part-time employee during the summer. He ended up at a supervisory position at 19, then as a shift manager at 24. Over time, he worked his way up. The performance wasn't exceptional at any point, but he kept a company afloat and profitable even though it was written as at death's door several times.

The second came from another company, where he was booted after two years for subpar performance. He hadn't entered the workforce at all until he was 22, when he graduated college and went right into a low-level managerial position. He climbed the ladder, and eventually ended up as CEO. Maybe his departure had to do with a lagging stock price, maybe it was his personality that rubbed people the wrong way, maybe there were other factors.

Now, if you can tell me from this limited theoretical scenario who should get the job, I give you full credit. I think that it can't be done, because each real-life situation is a heck of a lot different. If we were to put this situation onto Todd Richards, he'd fall partially into both.

For what it's worth, my father-in-law (autoworker, UAW member) has seen a huge shift during his lengthy tenure at his plant. The old UAW heads, whether in that shop or whether regionally, were all former floor workers who happened to have a knack for getting things done. The newer breed are all college kids who never worked the floor and thus have no concept of daily work in the plant. With the old guys, if he'd said that, "Someone's been stealing my tools", it would have been taken care of very quickly...that's not how it is today. If he'd said, "There's a leaking pipe slowly dripping acid in a walkway", it would be addressed right then and there. Not so today.

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06-06-2012, 01:31 PM
  #341
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Originally Posted by CapnCornelius View Post
Hasn't changed.

Happens at all levels of management in retail. As MB suggested, it is a thankless profession. Pay at the lower levels is not good. Hours are horrible. People are not even vaguely appreciative when they do receive good service.
I think anyone who's worked retail or customer service knows the answer to this one immediately.

Which happens more often:
1) Provide excellent service, leaving the customer happy, with the customer telling someone (anyone) else employed there that excellent service was provided, or
2) Be pointed to by a parent telling their child, "If you don't knock it off, you'll end up throwing your life away by working here like (employee) is". This takes on many other variants..."that's what happens when you drop out of high school", "if you want to know about poor life choices, ask (employee) since obviously they know", and so on.

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06-06-2012, 02:50 PM
  #342
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Originally Posted by Mayor Bee View Post
Right, and when someone who was a dismal failure at one spot ended up in another, everyone was supposed to be happy because "This guy has experience doing blah blah blah."
That was the general happening. When I worked for a local retailer, they hired the ex-CEO of Sears. He decided to leverage our inventory to pay for commercial spots in a market that was too expensive for our business model.

The company filed for bankruptcy two years later, when if it had stayed out of those big markets with the expensive real estate costs it would still be in business today as a very profitable company.

Quote:
Now, if you can tell me from this limited theoretical scenario who should get the job, I give you full credit. I think that it can't be done, because each real-life situation is a heck of a lot different. If we were to put this situation onto Todd Richards, he'd fall partially into both.
I think your scenario is a bit simplistic, but I know where you are going with it. I can just say that the CEO's I have dealt with are in $100M+ companies and, generally, the guy that works his way up will never see the CEO's office.

Quote:
For what it's worth, my father-in-law (autoworker, UAW member) has seen a huge shift during his lengthy tenure at his plant. The old UAW heads, whether in that shop or whether regionally, were all former floor workers who happened to have a knack for getting things done. The newer breed are all college kids who never worked the floor and thus have no concept of daily work in the plant. With the old guys, if he'd said that, "Someone's been stealing my tools", it would have been taken care of very quickly...that's not how it is today. If he'd said, "There's a leaking pipe slowly dripping acid in a walkway", it would be addressed right then and there. Not so today.
I can say that, in general, kids entering the work force have a completely different mentality than when I entered. However, that really doesn't have much do to with the conversation.

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06-06-2012, 07:47 PM
  #343
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayor Bee View Post
I think anyone who's worked retail or customer service knows the answer to this one immediately.

Which happens more often:
1) Provide excellent service, leaving the customer happy, with the customer telling someone (anyone) else employed there that excellent service was provided, or
2) Be pointed to by a parent telling their child, "If you don't knock it off, you'll end up throwing your life away by working here like (employee) is". This takes on many other variants..."that's what happens when you drop out of high school", "if you want to know about poor life choices, ask (employee) since obviously they know", and so on.
Ugh. Reminded me of one of the more condescending things to ever happen to me. When I worked at Donato's on campus, I delivered three pizzas to this one house and a guy who looked like a prof. It was $30 or so. He gave me a dollar coin and said, "work hard and improve yourself."

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06-06-2012, 10:44 PM
  #344
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Just a thought?

Hello all, I am new to the board and my spelling and grammar and typing and all is pretty poor! I have been viewing for a few years now and like what you all contribute! I am from Cleveland Ohio and saw the LeBron debacle. Not a fan of the NBA never paid attention to it until he left. I have a lot of fun telling people at work to watch a game where you have to watch, not drink, eat and text! So take it easy on me!

I have a thick skin and a thought so here it goes.

I agree management is so so. My real concern over the years is this:

1. Bad goaltending(discussed enough)

2. Rick Nash is AWESOME as a player! Is he the guy in the room that is the man. Like oh say Dustin Brown of the Kings(watching Cup while I type), Iginla, Doan?
I don't think so. I think he is like Lebron(Awesome player), Jeff Carter (Awesome player), Daytsuk(Awesome Player)!

Just not a leader!
The franchise put a bunch of faith in him to be the man that takes the Jackets to the playoffs. To me he is a piece not the machine. When you get caught with your pants down for your franchise face, you must save face quickly. I think they listened to him too much. I think they let him dictate too much. Let Hitch go? Mason was good when we were stacked with stay at home D-men and forwards who played Hitch hockey. We go to a more Nash friendly style and it is not so good. I think the world of Nash as a player, and a person that I have never met(even have a bobble head on the shelf). I just have to think he is not the piece we all have put so much faith in. I think good things are to come with this team when we build an identity. I am still unsure of the front office but I do believe Nash to be a big part of the problem.

Prima donna gone( I say that with a ton of respect) problem a little easier to correct.
Playoffs this year I hope to all Jackets fans! ( Too much beer is good and bad)

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06-06-2012, 10:55 PM
  #345
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Careful-you'll be inducted immediately into the doom & gloom club.

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