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Marty Lapointe named Director of Player Development

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06-06-2012, 05:39 PM
  #126
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Originally Posted by Habsfan18 View Post
Translation please?
They we're talking about how Mellanby's hiring affects Timmins and Leroux says that after the a talk he had with him he said that he was very happy of how Bergevin is adding more people to help in scouting and management.

There's also a little story of the 2010 draft when Stephane Leroux tried to talk to Timmins who was near Gauthier at the table, but he couldn't because it was "the new regime".

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06-06-2012, 05:41 PM
  #127
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Originally Posted by HABsurde View Post
by the way, it wasn't directed at you, all i mean is that Therrien, Lapointe are being put down a lot and Bergevin a little bit now, not as much Dudley and Mellanby. Call me simplist if you want but the common point is francophone vs anglophone. So i'm asking myself the question, let say that it's not Martin Lapointe but instead, i don't know a former player with no experience in management like Mike Ricci or Gary valk would get the gig, would there be that much critiscm....
Hey, Mellanby is the same as Lapointe for me, and Dudley came from the Leafs - not exactly winners lately.

The whole thing stinks as far as I'm concerned. Had some winners with experience been hired - say Hatley, Carbonneau, Crawford, etc. - I'd feel much better about things.

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06-06-2012, 05:44 PM
  #128
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I still hate Martin Lapointe. Bitter much ?

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06-06-2012, 05:47 PM
  #129
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I still hate Martin Lapointe. Bitter much ?
Yeah, I guess I will have to move on as well. Though, there were better times with me and him..... Still have my Wings t-shirt of their 1997 Cup that Lapointe signed when he brought the Cup in Lachine. Was very nice then....but hated his supposed interest with us.....I guess we have to move on and wish he'll do a great job for us.

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06-06-2012, 05:57 PM
  #130
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That's the thing. All they have is ex-players. There's no other perspective.
I don't think this is a valid complaint. Why do you assume that every single ex-NHL player thinks exactly the same? They are all individuals, with different opinions and different perspectives.

Just because they happen to have one thing in common - which is playing the same sport professionally - it doesn't mean they have the same perspective on how to run a hockey organization. In fact, it is probably a good thing to have ex-players in management, as they have been exposed to the game first hand for much longer than most people.

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06-06-2012, 06:03 PM
  #131
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I still hate Martin Lapointe. Bitter much ?
Me too, can't stand him.

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06-06-2012, 06:15 PM
  #132
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Originally Posted by Garry Valk View Post
Hey, Mellanby is the same as Lapointe for me, and Dudley came from the Leafs - not exactly winners lately.

The whole thing stinks as far as I'm concerned. Had some winners with experience been hired - say Hatley, Carbonneau, Crawford, etc. - I'd feel much better about things.
Well just to say Lapointe as two Stanley Cup with the flagship franchise of the NHL of the last 15 years....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Yeah, I guess I will have to move on as well. Though, there were better times with me and him..... Still have my Wings t-shirt of their 1997 Cup that Lapointe signed when he brought the Cup in Lachine. Was very nice then....but hated his supposed interest with us.....I guess we have to move on and wish he'll do a great job for us.
Hum, Martin Lapointe never brought the cup to Lachine of my knowledge, and trust me, i know....

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Originally Posted by Capitaine Gionta View Post
Me too, can't stand him.
i'm sure it's easier to hate a guy that you don't know personnally....


Last edited by Habsfan18: 06-06-2012 at 06:19 PM. Reason: merge
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06-06-2012, 06:19 PM
  #133
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i'm sure it's easier to hate a guy that you don't know personnally....
Well, yeah. That's the appeal.

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Old
06-06-2012, 06:22 PM
  #134
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ugh not him! never liked him!

didnt he use us to get a fat 5M contract ?

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Old
06-06-2012, 06:23 PM
  #135
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Hum, Martin Lapointe never brought the cup to Lachine of my knowledge, and trust me, i know....
Well it did happen but was it Lachine or Ville St-Pierre?

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06-06-2012, 06:23 PM
  #136
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Well, yeah. That's the appeal.
That's why i can't share your feeling, i do know the guy....

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06-06-2012, 06:25 PM
  #137
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Well it did happen but was it Lachine or Ville St-Pierre?
I like you whitesnake.... yeah it was Ville-Saint-Pierre, were you there for the first cup with the parade and tent in the baseball field or the second year....

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06-06-2012, 06:26 PM
  #138
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ugh not him! never liked him!

didnt he use us to get a fat 5M contract ?
Yes, yes he did.

But that was his playing career. If he does a great job for us as yet another addition to our growing (new) management team, I'm sure all will be forgotten.

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Old
06-06-2012, 06:26 PM
  #139
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I love Lapointe. He was one of the NHL players in the best shape so i guess it make sense to have him help with player's developpement. He was also a courageous player and a hard worker.

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06-06-2012, 06:31 PM
  #140
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Originally Posted by HABsurde View Post
I like you whitesnake.... yeah it was Ville-Saint-Pierre, were you there for the first cup with the parade and tent in the baseball field or the second year....
Hey I'm getting old so it's not clear. I do remember that me and my girlfriend at that time, now my wife, had a picture with him, under a small tent with the Cup. I don't remember seeing a parade though. Was at Blainville for the parade for Jean-Sébastien Giguère but don't remember Lapointe's parade. My T-Shirt says 1997 so I guess it's the first one.

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06-06-2012, 06:37 PM
  #141
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Hey I'm getting old so it's not clear. I do remember that me and my girlfriend at that time, now my wife, had a picture with him, under a small tent with the Cup. I don't remember seeing a parade though. Was at Blainville for the parade for Jean-Sébastien Giguère but don't remember Lapointe's parade. My T-Shirt says 1997 so I guess it's the first one.
yeah the picture under the tent is the 1st one, that was quite something, i almost scrap the Stanley cup that day.... ah.... precious memories....

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06-06-2012, 06:37 PM
  #142
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Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
Yeah. Not good.

A large management group is a good idea, but Bergevin keeps hiring his buddies. He needs to broaden the types of voices he has in his management team. It's starting to look like a giant echo chamber right now.
I am not sure what "types" he has hired. I am totally unaware of the skill set each of these guys brings to their position. You may be right but before I condemn the hirings I would like to see how the perform in their respective roles. Just because Bergevin knows them shouldn't exclude them from consideration. I imagine there are a lot of people that Bergevin knows and who he didn't hire.

The one that concerns me the most is Therrien. As for the others, I will take a wait and see attitude.

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06-06-2012, 06:50 PM
  #143
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Yeah. Not good.

A large management group is a good idea, but Bergevin keeps hiring his buddies. He needs to broaden the types of voices he has in his management team. It's starting to look like a giant echo chamber right now.
I am starting to share your concern. Where is the voice of reason coming from? I like the big group, but none of them aside from Dudley and Timmins have much experience.

I never liked Lapointe much as a player, doesn't seem like the brightest guy. All these ex-players is getting old. Where is the managerial experience? I hate to be negative nancy, but I'm not a fan of most of Bergevin's decisions. I liked Dudely well enough, but preferred a numbers guy. Hopefully he knows much more than we do.

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06-06-2012, 06:57 PM
  #144
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That's the thing. All they have is ex-players. There's no other perspective.
Interesting detail I'd like to contribute: I've played lots of sports but never hockey. I can't skate and can barely shoot the puck. But I have watched and really analyzed hockey for a long time now and regarding what I see on the ice, I feel comfortable in what I see and analyze.

My buddy played until the juniors, he was a bit undersized but he was fast and tenacious and an all-round talented player. When we watch games and I make an observation, he's almost instantaneous in explaining why that player made a mistake or what compelled him to do it. Explanations that blow my mind and make a ton of sense. I'm usually not wrong but he's almost always right.

The tangible, physical aspect of being on the ice is a perspective only former players could have. No such thing as moneyball in Hockey (or Soccer) because it's a fluid game. Baseball is literally 1on1 in each zone, why moneyball works. But in the NHL, the fasted level of one of the fastest games?

Hits, shots, faceoffs - they're all counted subjectively. Sometime you lose a faceoff because the linesman sucks. Hits vary arena to arena. Players with experience like Lapointe and Bergevin could see through the noise and tell if their players are performing or not.

Now the counter-argument is obviously that Gainey was also a former player and he totally ****ed up by trading for Gomez or dumping Ribeiro. I'll concede that with the caveat that Gainey never really demonstrated any good pro-scouting ability at all, ever. Rick Dudley has. And we'll see if Bergevin can do the same.

Statistical analysis can only go so far and though it's much more likely to re-enforce theories, the actual meat of scouting and strategy is by eye, by experience.

I'm optimistic in this group and the player core.

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Old
06-06-2012, 07:02 PM
  #145
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I am starting to share your concern. Where is the voice of reason coming from? I like the big group, but none of them aside from Dudley and Timmins have much experience.

I never liked Lapointe much as a player, doesn't seem like the brightest guy. All these ex-players is getting old. Where is the managerial experience? I hate to be negative nancy, but I'm not a fan of most of Bergevin's decisions. I liked Dudely well enough, but preferred a numbers guy. Hopefully he knows much more than we do.
I don't think that being friendly with or being trusted by Bergevin is synonymous with being a stooge, a thug, or a yes-man.

Bergevin strikes me as a fellow who welcomes his colleagues and subordinates to express their viewpoints even if they do not jibe with his own.

As for knowing more than 'us'? Yes, he most certainly does.

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06-06-2012, 07:16 PM
  #146
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So people aren't happy because we have too many guys in the front office who played the game? Really? Are people really complaining about this?

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06-06-2012, 07:25 PM
  #147
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I met Lapointe back when I was playing peewee hockey in Ville Saint-Pierre, when they renamed the arena to Arena Martin Lapointe. A very nice guy and a good hockey person to have on board too. Awesome to see him with the organization.

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06-06-2012, 07:28 PM
  #148
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Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
Interesting detail I'd like to contribute: I've played lots of sports but never hockey. I can't skate and can barely shoot the puck. But I have watched and really analyzed hockey for a long time now and regarding what I see on the ice, I feel comfortable in what I see and analyze.

My buddy played until the juniors, he was a bit undersized but he was fast and tenacious and an all-round talented player. When we watch games and I make an observation, he's almost instantaneous in explaining why that player made a mistake or what compelled him to do it. Explanations that blow my mind and make a ton of sense. I'm usually not wrong but he's almost always right.

The tangible, physical aspect of being on the ice is a perspective only former players could have. No such thing as moneyball in Hockey (or Soccer) because it's a fluid game. Baseball is literally 1on1 in each zone, why moneyball works. But in the NHL, the fasted level of one of the fastest games?

Hits, shots, faceoffs - they're all counted subjectively. Sometime you lose a faceoff because the linesman sucks. Hits vary arena to arena. Players with experience like Lapointe and Bergevin could see through the noise and tell if their players are performing or not.

Now the counter-argument is obviously that Gainey was also a former player and he totally ****ed up by trading for Gomez or dumping Ribeiro. I'll concede that with the caveat that Gainey never really demonstrated any good pro-scouting ability at all, ever. Rick Dudley has. And we'll see if Bergevin can do the same.

Statistical analysis can only go so far and though it's much more likely to re-enforce theories, the actual meat of scouting and strategy is by eye, by experience.

I'm optimistic in this group and the player core.
Excellent observation... I agree with every word you have written here

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06-06-2012, 07:31 PM
  #149
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Meh - I may be old and bitter but I clearly remember Lapointe using the Habs as leverage to get a big contract. He then turned down the Habs. Our french media was shocked that the local boy would turn us down - but in any case used us, rejected us and then signed with the enemy. He can go back there.

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06-06-2012, 07:33 PM
  #150
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So people aren't happy because we have too many guys in the front office who played the game? Really? Are people really complaining about this?
just the propeller heads. Listen, I can't say one way or the other if this management team is going to get the job done, but all I know is that the last one devastated the organization beyond belief. so new blood is a good thing.

So, now we have new leaders in place. I'll give a polite golf-clap until I see some execution.

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