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Marty Lapointe named Director of Player Development

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Old
06-06-2012, 08:35 PM
  #151
Grant McCagg
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
So people aren't happy because we have too many guys in the front office who played the game? Really? Are people really complaining about this?
Well it's a very legitimate concern. Detroit has been the class of the league the past decade and they had fellows like Nill, Yzerman, and Holland in the front office, none who played the game...... er...wait a minute....

The coach and head scout never played pro..but the guys who are going to be out scouting NHL and AHL games - i.e. Duds, Bergevin, Lapointe and Mellanby are ex pros.
I really don't see the issue here....at all.

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06-06-2012, 08:35 PM
  #152
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Interesting detail I'd like to contribute: I've played lots of sports but never hockey. I can't skate and can barely shoot the puck. But I have watched and really analyzed hockey for a long time now and regarding what I see on the ice, I feel comfortable in what I see and analyze.

My buddy played until the juniors, he was a bit undersized but he was fast and tenacious and an all-round talented player. When we watch games and I make an observation, he's almost instantaneous in explaining why that player made a mistake or what compelled him to do it. Explanations that blow my mind and make a ton of sense. I'm usually not wrong but he's almost always right.

The tangible, physical aspect of being on the ice is a perspective only former players could have. No such thing as moneyball in Hockey (or Soccer) because it's a fluid game. Baseball is literally 1on1 in each zone, why moneyball works. But in the NHL, the fasted level of one of the fastest games?

Hits, shots, faceoffs - they're all counted subjectively. Sometime you lose a faceoff because the linesman sucks. Hits vary arena to arena. Players with experience like Lapointe and Bergevin could see through the noise and tell if their players are performing or not.

Now the counter-argument is obviously that Gainey was also a former player and he totally ****ed up by trading for Gomez or dumping Ribeiro. I'll concede that with the caveat that Gainey never really demonstrated any good pro-scouting ability at all, ever. Rick Dudley has. And we'll see if Bergevin can do the same.

Statistical analysis can only go so far and though it's much more likely to re-enforce theories, the actual meat of scouting and strategy is by eye, by experience.

I'm optimistic in this group and the player core.
Statistical analysis should never replace actually observations by people who know the sport (and yes, guys who played, if not professionally, at least at a high level are typically the best at this), but it's a very nice compliment to compare things objectively without any emotional bias. The two should be used together.

So far the general trend is Bergevin hiring former players who have a similar profile to him - guys who made the NHL through hard work and grit. That doesn't mean they all think the same way but it is interesting.

Also, I'm wondering, and we probably don't know of every high level executive in the organization, if Bergevin is going to hire a capologist, since that was the biggest knock against him - not being a numbers guy. Having guys on board who know the numbers and contracts is vital. Look at Yzerman hiring a numbers guy like Brisebois to work with.

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06-06-2012, 08:39 PM
  #153
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Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
Statistical analysis should never replace actually observations by people who know the sport (and yes, guys who played, if not professionally, at least at a high level are typically the best at this), but it's a very nice compliment to compare things objectively without any emotional bias. The two should be used together.

So far the general trend is Bergevin hiring former players who have a similar profile to him - guys who made the NHL through hard work and grit. That doesn't mean they all think the same way but it is interesting.

Also, I'm wondering, and we probably don't know of every high level executive in the organization, if Bergevin is going to hire a capologist, since that was the biggest knock against him - not being a numbers guy. Having guys on board who know the numbers and contracts is vital. Look at Yzerman hiring a numbers guy like Brisebois to work with.
Yzerman just poached every reject and prize from the Habs organization. I wish only failure for Tampa Bay.

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06-06-2012, 08:41 PM
  #154
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Originally Posted by Grant McCagg View Post
Well it's a very legitimate concern. Detroit has been the class of the league the past decade and they had fellows like Nill, Yzerman, and Holland in the front office, none who played the game...... er...wait a minute....

The coach and head scout never played pro..but the guys who are going to be out scouting NHL and AHL games - i.e. Duds, Bergevin, Lapointe and Mellanby are ex pros.
I really don't see the issue here....at all.
Pretty much.

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06-06-2012, 08:47 PM
  #155
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What is also great about Mellanby and Lapoint is that they are both locals. They can be developed to replace the existing management down the road. Habs have a language constraint, so succession planning is very important.
Excellent point! Two home-boys who can be groomed to eventually take over. If the Habs can implement that kind of self-sustaining, management succession program, they can perpetuate - finally - a stable identity and team culture for the many years to come. In the same way that when you think of Philly, Boston, Detroit, New Jersey - you think of a certain way of doing things. That's what this team needs and it's something they haven't had in 30 years...

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06-06-2012, 08:49 PM
  #156
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Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
Statistical analysis should never replace actually observations by people who know the sport (and yes, guys who played, if not professionally, at least at a high level are typically the best at this), but it's a very nice compliment to compare things objectively without any emotional bias. The two should be used together.

So far the general trend is Bergevin hiring former players who have a similar profile to him - guys who made the NHL through hard work and grit. That doesn't mean they all think the same way but it is interesting.

Also, I'm wondering, and we probably don't know of every high level executive in the organization, if Bergevin is going to hire a capologist, since that was the biggest knock against him - not being a numbers guy. Having guys on board who know the numbers and contracts is vital. Look at Yzerman hiring a numbers guy like Brisebois to work with.
The capologist is a new specialist term created by geeks. It's just another dimension of the hockey operations but no more relevant than any other essential business practice. Would we say that Bergevin needs to be a Chartered Accountant or an expert in regulatory compliance too? No, he directs others who have those skills in support of the people who make talent decisions. The product is hockey.

As for Brisebois, if being able to manage a basic payroll and a cap is his largest asset, he's quite picking TB's pocket with that executive level salary.

I'll take good hockey evaluators the rest can be put in the back office or off-shored to India for all I care.

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06-06-2012, 08:50 PM
  #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsfan18 View Post
Marc Bergevin
Rick Dudley
Scott Mellanby
Trevor Timmins
Martin Lapointe
Larry Carriere

That's a solid, solid management group.
One can only hope.

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06-06-2012, 08:55 PM
  #158
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Originally Posted by Agnostic View Post
The capologist is a new specialist term created by geeks. It's just another dimension of the hockey operations but no more relevant than any other essential business practice. Would we say that Bergevin needs to be a Chartered Accountant or an expert in regulatory compliance too? No, he directs others who have those skills in support of the people who make talent decisions. The product is hockey.

As for Brisebois, if being able to manage a basic payroll and a cap is his largest asset, he's quite picking TB's pocket with that executive level salary.

I'll take good hockey evaluators the rest can be put in the back office or off-shored to India for all I care.
Pretty much this. And this is a huge reason why I didn't want Brisebois. You can find a capologist anywhere.

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06-06-2012, 09:09 PM
  #159
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Originally Posted by CrimsonSkorpion View Post
I met Lapointe back when I was playing peewee hockey in Ville Saint-Pierre, when they renamed the arena to Arena Martin Lapointe. A very nice guy and a good hockey person to have on board too. Awesome to see him with the organization.
Are you a Pierrois, CS?

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06-06-2012, 09:15 PM
  #160
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So should I expect to pay $60 per ticket in the blues next year?!
You weren't already? You must have actually gotten into the online waiting room.

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06-06-2012, 09:17 PM
  #161
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Are you a Pierrois, CS?
Are you Bloumeister???

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06-06-2012, 09:17 PM
  #162
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Excellent point! Two home-boys who can be groomed to eventually take over. If the Habs can implement that kind of self-sustaining, management succession program, they can perpetuate - finally - a stable identity and team culture for the many years to come. In the same way that when you think of Philly, Boston, Detroit, New Jersey - you think of a certain way of doing things. That's what this team needs and it's something they haven't had in 30 years...
The other bonus about this is it keeps the current management hungry. They're not going to make dumb decisions and throw picks and players away if they know there are other guys in the wings ready to take their jobs.

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06-06-2012, 09:23 PM
  #163
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Are you a Pierrois, CS?
Lachine born-and-raised. Played hockey all my life at Lachine Arena and Arena Martin Lapointe.

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06-06-2012, 09:25 PM
  #164
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In Habsfan18's random fact of the day:

I met Martin Lapointe (and Michel Therrien) back in 2002 at Bob Hartley's hockey camp. I actually took some passes from him.

I'll still always remember Francis Bouillon taking a slap shot and denting some goalies helmet.

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06-06-2012, 09:26 PM
  #165
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Originally Posted by CrimsonSkorpion View Post
Lachine born-and-raised. Played hockey all my life at Lachine Arena and Arena Martin Lapointe.
if not to much to ask, how old are you Crimson? i've know quite the Lachiners othe Saint Pew people....

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06-06-2012, 09:27 PM
  #166
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Wow. Bergevin is building himself a nice country-club !

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06-06-2012, 09:28 PM
  #167
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if not to much to ask, how old are you Crimson? i've know quite the Lachiners othe Saint Pew people....
Turning 25 in October.

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06-06-2012, 09:29 PM
  #168
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Wow. Bergevin is building himself a nice country-club !
Country Club can be such a harsh word, it's not because you surround yourself with people you know or trust that good work cannot be done....

And the way Bergevin was presented, it seems he knows, is friend or is well respected by almost everyone involve in hockey... What would you like him to do then.....

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06-06-2012, 09:30 PM
  #169
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Turning 25 in October.
Then there is a good chance i know you, Do you know the likes of Karl Brodeur or Ian Lefebvre?

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06-06-2012, 09:31 PM
  #170
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Are you a Pierrois, CS?
Quote:
Originally Posted by HABsurde View Post
Are you Bloumeister???
Am I?

I played minor hockey in the park BEFORE the arena was built. I played the 2nd or 3rd game ever in there on opening day in what, 1976? Martin Lapointe was 2 or 3 years old at that time...

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Originally Posted by CrimsonSkorpion View Post
Lachine born-and-raised. Played hockey all my life at Lachine Arena and Arena Martin Lapointe.
Moved to the West... Island, but still play there every week in the winter.

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Originally Posted by HABsurde View Post
if not to much to ask, how old are you Crimson? i've know quite the Lachiners othe Saint Pew people....
Before you ask me:

I'm old. See reply above, and do the math

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06-06-2012, 09:32 PM
  #171
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Turning 25 in October.
24 with 3 kids, this man works overtime if you know what I mean.

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06-06-2012, 09:33 PM
  #172
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Am I?

I played minor hockey in the park BEFORE the arena was built. I played the 2nd or 3rd game ever in there on opening day in what, 1976? Martin Lapointe was 2 or 3 years old at that time...



Moved to the West... Island, but still play there every week in the winter.



Before you ask me:

I'm old. See reply above, and do the math
Bloumeister, was your dad a policeman?

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06-06-2012, 09:34 PM
  #173
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Then there is a good chance i know you, Do you know the likes of Karl Brodeur or Ian Lefebvre?
Can't say I do, to be honest.

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06-06-2012, 09:34 PM
  #174
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if not to much to ask, how old are you Crimson? i've know quite the Lachiners othe Saint Pew people....
It's Lachinois. You're quite habsurde

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06-06-2012, 09:34 PM
  #175
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You weren't already? You must have actually gotten into the online waiting room.
Not very often, but I happen to be friends with Le Tricolore, who never fails to buy tickets within the first half hour of the sale .

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