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Mike Green to Edmonton?

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Old
06-06-2012, 04:05 PM
  #26
Halpysback
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Originally Posted by um View Post
hemsky
gagner

for

green
perrault
boston 2nd
You can't ****ing be serious.

Send them Backstrom while you're at it

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Old
06-06-2012, 04:06 PM
  #27
thrillhous
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Originally Posted by lakai17 View Post
What would Edmonton have to ship Washington to acquire Edmontonian Mike Green in a trade??
Mike Green is from Calgary, not Edmonton.

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06-06-2012, 04:09 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by CSimpson18 View Post
Why bother asking? The answer will always be Hall, Nuge, Eberle or Nail. And that's too much.
Ofcourse because all of those guys have scored 76 points in a season........ Wait a minute.... You're all aware of how old Mike Green is too you're not getting a guy in his mid 30's.

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06-06-2012, 04:11 PM
  #29
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Surgeries didn't derail Drew Bree's career. He came back won the Super Bowl and broke Dan Marino's passing record. He had a torn rotator cup and labrum in his throwing shoulder....
The more apt comparison is Briere had the same injury.

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Old
06-06-2012, 04:37 PM
  #30
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I don't see why Washington would want both Hemsky and Gagner. But would Hemsky and a 2nd round pick do it? Green's value, like Hemsky's has suffered since his injury issues. Green also has a fat contract with only one year on it. I would think that Hemsky and a 2nd is fair value, IF Washington has any interest in Hemsky, which I wouldn't be sure of.

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06-06-2012, 04:37 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Liberation View Post
The more apt comparison is Briere had the same injury.
You want to know what isn't apt. Comparing a legitimate star player (who btw just had a terrific WC while being healthy all year) to a player who never really established himself in the NHL. Zoidberg talks of Fehr having his career derailed but when was it ever on the rails? He had one decent year (39pts), but that was on a team that scored 313 ****ing goals, and that placed him 9th on the team in scoring. Also just because one player has had trouble recovering from an injury doesn't mean that another player will suffer the same fate. Hemsky didn't reinjure his shoulder this year, and hasn't reinjured his other shoulder in the two years since. Correlation does not equal causation, which is to say nobody can say why Fehr has failed and nobody can guareentee how Hemsky's shoulder will hold up.

BTW i played QB in football and i played hockey and i can tell you that a QB puts a lot more strain on his shoulder than a hockey player. Sure the shoulder is used differently but Brees had a more severe injury, and should still be prone to shoulder faliure no different than Fehr if it really is supposedly damaged for life. I can't tell you how sore my healthy shoulder would get after throwing footballs for an hour or two. The Brees example also brings up another interesting point, do you know why people thought he might never be the same? Because his type of injury has ended careers, thats why. What that means is, like i said earlier, no two players are sure to suffer the same fate even if the injury is the same. Just because one person had trouble recovering doesn't mean the same will be true for another.

Comparing football players to hockey players in terms of recovery is no less apt than comparing Eric Fehr to Ales Hemsky. Both need to be taken with a grain of salt, as there is relevance but neither is anything close to a definitive point. I know the average HFer figures they know more than NHL teams, but Hemsky was resigned at 5 mill because there were obviously doctors (i.e. experts) who were willing to vouch that his shoulders should hold up. NHL teams don't just throw millions of dollars away on a whim, there is obviously some evidence that suggests Hemsky should be able to make a full/near full recovery.

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Old
06-06-2012, 08:34 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by CSimpson18 View Post
I believe Green has one more year to UFA. Is that accurate? I wouldn't do this deal for a single year but if he inked a 3 year contract I'd make this trade.
no he is a RFA this year I think this is the right deal

To Washington

Gagner
2012 2nd Rounder

To Edmonton

Green

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Old
06-06-2012, 08:41 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Eskimo44 View Post
You want to know what isn't apt. Comparing a legitimate star player (who btw just had a terrific WC while being healthy all year) to a player who never really established himself in the NHL. Zoidberg talks of Fehr having his career derailed but when was it ever on the rails? He had one decent year (39pts), but that was on a team that scored 313 ****ing goals, and that placed him 9th on the team in scoring. Also just because one player has had trouble recovering from an injury doesn't mean that another player will suffer the same fate. Hemsky didn't reinjure his shoulder this year, and hasn't reinjured his other shoulder in the two years since. Correlation does not equal causation, which is to say nobody can say why Fehr has failed and nobody can guareentee how Hemsky's shoulder will hold up.

BTW i played QB in football and i played hockey and i can tell you that a QB puts a lot more strain on his shoulder than a hockey player. Sure the shoulder is used differently but Brees had a more severe injury, and should still be prone to shoulder faliure no different than Fehr if it really is supposedly damaged for life. I can't tell you how sore my healthy shoulder would get after throwing footballs for an hour or two. The Brees example also brings up another interesting point, do you know why people thought he might never be the same? Because his type of injury has ended careers, thats why. What that means is, like i said earlier, no two players are sure to suffer the same fate even if the injury is the same. Just because one person had trouble recovering doesn't mean the same will be true for another.

Comparing football players to hockey players in terms of recovery is no less apt than comparing Eric Fehr to Ales Hemsky. Both need to be taken with a grain of salt, as there is relevance but neither is anything close to a definitive point. I know the average HFer figures they know more than NHL teams, but Hemsky was resigned at 5 mill because there were obviously doctors (i.e. experts) who were willing to vouch that his shoulders should hold up. NHL teams don't just throw millions of dollars away on a whim, there is obviously some evidence that suggests Hemsky should be able to make a full/near full recovery.
Nobody gives a **** if Hemsky played well in the WC.

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Old
06-06-2012, 09:06 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by heathfilms View Post
no he is a RFA this year I think this is the right deal

To Washington

Gagner
2012 2nd Rounder

To Edmonton

Green
Big no from Washington. Doesn't fill any holes and opens a new one.

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Old
06-06-2012, 09:11 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Braden Carlzner View Post
Nobody gives a **** if Hemsky played well in the WC.
Obviously not you as it doesn't support your position. If you think a player playing well in a major tournament is irrelevant then you sir are foolish. I also see you convientely ignored my entire position in favour of flamming me over a little side note. Hemsky was very good at the end of the year and in the WC, this does seem to suggest he is recovering performance wise as he was unsuprisingly rusty coming off injury.

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06-06-2012, 09:47 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Eskimo44 View Post
You want to know what isn't apt. Comparing a legitimate star player (who btw just had a terrific WC while being healthy all year) to a player who never really established himself in the NHL. Zoidberg talks of Fehr having his career derailed but when was it ever on the rails? He had one decent year (39pts), but that was on a team that scored 313 ****ing goals, and that placed him 9th on the team in scoring.
Fehr was also once a 1st round pick in the famous 2003 draft. He had immense potential, but the shoulder injuries started before his career could really get going.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eskimo44 View Post
Also just because one player has had trouble recovering from an injury doesn't mean that another player will suffer the same fate. Hemsky didn't reinjure his shoulder this year, and hasn't reinjured his other shoulder in the two years since. Correlation does not equal causation, which is to say nobody can say why Fehr has failed and nobody can guareentee how Hemsky's shoulder will hold up.
My point is more than "they each had shoulder problems." They had the same tear, they each had multiple injuries requiring multiple surgeries. The only difference is how early in their careers their injuries started.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eskimo44 View Post
BTW i played QB in football and i played hockey and i can tell you that a QB puts a lot more strain on his shoulder than a hockey player. Sure the shoulder is used differently but Brees had a more severe injury, and should still be prone to shoulder faliure no different than Fehr if it really is supposedly damaged for life. I can't tell you how sore my healthy shoulder would get after throwing footballs for an hour or two. The Brees example also brings up another interesting point, do you know why people thought he might never be the same? Because his type of injury has ended careers, thats why. What that means is, like i said earlier, no two players are sure to suffer the same fate even if the injury is the same. Just because one person had trouble recovering doesn't mean the same will be true for another.
There's a difference between the type of labrum tear that results from a repetitive throwing motion - what Brees had - and the tear that comes from a dislocation of the shoulder, like the injuries Hemsky and Fehr sustained by being checked into the boards. The former is known as a SLAP tear, while the latter is a Bankart tear. A surgical repair of a SLAP tear means a 3-4 month recovery period, while a surgical repair on a Bankart tear is a minimum of a 6 month recovery. A Bankart tear also comes with a significant chance of re-injury: "Statistically, the chances of redislocating the shoulder are greater than 80% in patients younger than 30 years of age." This is why I say that these sort of tears never leave you. For a hockey player playing a physical game where you're constantly hitting or being hit, having this added risk makes you a ticking time bomb.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eskimo44 View Post
Comparing football players to hockey players in terms of recovery is no less apt than comparing Eric Fehr to Ales Hemsky. Both need to be taken with a grain of salt, as there is relevance but neither is anything close to a definitive point. I know the average HFer figures they know more than NHL teams, but Hemsky was resigned at 5 mill because there were obviously doctors (i.e. experts) who were willing to vouch that his shoulders should hold up. NHL teams don't just throw millions of dollars away on a whim, there is obviously some evidence that suggests Hemsky should be able to make a full/near full recovery.
Feel free to trust the doctors. Caps fans sure did when they told us that Fehr's shoulders would be better than ever post surgery, and when our GM said a lot of the same things. We know how that turned out.

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Old
06-06-2012, 10:47 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by heathfilms View Post
no he is a RFA this year I think this is the right deal

To Washington

Gagner
2012 2nd Rounder

To Edmonton

Green
Sold.

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Old
06-06-2012, 11:00 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by heathfilms View Post
no he is a RFA this year I think this is the right deal

To Washington

Gagner
2012 2nd Rounder

To Edmonton

Green
Right...

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Old
06-06-2012, 11:04 PM
  #39
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Well first of all the trade has to improve the team in some way.

Assuming Hall/RNH/Eberle/Yakupov are off limits, we'd probably be looking at Smid + Petry + Jones + 2nd minimum. Otherwise why even do it? Hemsky/Gagner have less than 0 value to us.

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06-06-2012, 11:24 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Halpysback View Post
Well first of all the trade has to improve the team in some way.

Assuming Hall/RNH/Eberle/Yakupov are off limits, we'd probably be looking at Smid + Petry + Jones + 2nd minimum. Otherwise why even do it? Hemsky/Gagner have less than 0 value to us.
Holy ****... That trade does not fit the requirment of improving the team. Edmonton believe it or not ought to matter in terms of that too. Smid, Petry for Green is a very bad deal for Edmonton. Smid is an absolute beast, and Petry is going to be a top 4 defenseman for a long long time, if not top pairing. Jones and the 32nd (is it the 31st if NJ forefits their pick?) is a pretty significant throw in to a deal Edmonton is already being fleeced on. That really is awful for Edmonton. As much as Hemsky gets ragged on for injury history and decreased production how does the same not apply to Green?

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06-06-2012, 11:29 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Eskimo44 View Post
Holy ****... That trade does not fit the requirment of improving the team. Edmonton believe it or not ought to matter in terms of that too. Smid, Petry for Green is a very bad deal for Edmonton. Smid is an absolute beast, and Petry is going to be a top 4 defenseman for a long long time, if not top pairing. Jones and the 32nd (is it the 31st if NJ forefits their pick?) is a pretty significant throw in to a deal Edmonton is already being fleeced on. That really is awful for Edmonton. As much as Hemsky gets ragged on for injury history and decreased production how does the same not apply to Green?
Smid and Petry would be lucky if they are impactful as Green can be.

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06-06-2012, 11:32 PM
  #42
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Holy ****... That trade does not fit the requirment of improving the team. Edmonton believe it or not ought to matter in terms of that too. Smid, Petry for Green is a very bad deal for Edmonton. Smid is an absolute beast, and Petry is going to be a top 4 defenseman for a long long time, if not top pairing. Jones and the 32nd (is it the 31st if NJ forefits their pick?) is a pretty significant throw in to a deal Edmonton is already being fleeced on. That really is awful for Edmonton. As much as Hemsky gets ragged on for injury history and decreased production how does the same not apply to Green?
You're not seriously trying to compare Hemsky and Green are you?

Hey, Crosby was injured and didn't have the best playoffs, guess Crosby and Hemsky are comparable too.

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06-06-2012, 11:35 PM
  #43
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Smid and Petry would be lucky if they are impactful as Green can be.
watch Jeff Petry this upcoming season.

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06-06-2012, 11:46 PM
  #44
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What would be the advantage of trading for Hemsky over resigning Semin for slightly more without giving up anything?

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06-07-2012, 12:30 AM
  #45
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If the Oilers need an offensive d-man so bad why don't they just throw $4.5 million a year at year at Dennis Wideman for three or four years. He's only 29 and easily capable of 40-50 points without giving up assets. Yes, he is a turnover machine. If he wasn't he'd be getting $7 or $8 million. That Green for Hemsky/2nd trade is not happening. And Green is definitely from Calgary, not Edmonton.

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06-07-2012, 12:51 AM
  #46
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What would be the advantage of trading for Hemsky over resigning Semin for slightly more without giving up anything?
The advantage would be that Semin does not want to play in Washington.

That being said, Semin is immensely talented, when he wants to be. The dude needs to get his head and heart back in the game. It was only a couple of years ago when he was being lauded for his great play.

As an Oiler fan, I want to see Hemsky back. He missed Alot of time over the past couple of seasons and now that his health seems to be turning around I think he has a chance of getting his game on track.

The challenge for Edmonton will be, drafting Yakupov (failing a significant offer that allows them to draft Murray) is that they will have a glut of top 6 forwards, 3 of which will be natural RW's in Eb's Hemsky and Yak.

Hemsky feeding OV would be deadly and is a good fit for him and the Caps IMO. Yes, I know, no one wants to gamble on him based upon his past injury's. I am not sure the Oil would want to pay for Green's potential to regain his form either. I would say a deal involving Hemmer and Green, with an add by Edmonton, presents comparable risk/ reward between the two teams and the players involved.

I don't see how Gagner adds to the Caps lineup that much and wouldn't want to see the Oilers toss him aside until they had a better option at 2C.

And whether Green is from Calgary or Edmonton is a moot point. The 2 cities are 2.5 hours apart on the QE2. Edmonton is closer to home for Green than Washington if indeed location was of any relevance to him.

As for Wideman, he is a viable option for Edmonton as well. Not really a 1D but, besides the capabilities of Whitney, is certainly an upgrade to the Oilers D offensively speaking.

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06-07-2012, 01:04 AM
  #47
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What would be the advantage of trading for Hemsky over resigning Semin for slightly more without giving up anything?
Hemsky plays with ambition?

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06-07-2012, 01:30 AM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Halpysback View Post
What would be the advantage of trading for Hemsky over resigning Semin for slightly more without giving up anything?
I swear i heard that Semin didn't want to come back. It seems as if he felt underappreciated, especially under Hunter. Even though Hunter is gone i think the feelings are still there. Perhaps i misunderstand but it does not seem as if Washington can guareentee sign Semin. Also Hemsky is a gamebreaker who shows up in the most improtant games/moments. Semin's playoff performances were always exaggerated in terms of how bad they are but he really isn't the guy you want to turn to when the chips are down. Also the comments that his ex teammate (Gordon?) made last offseason about his commitment is not a very good reflection on Semin tbh.

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06-07-2012, 01:32 AM
  #49
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You're not seriously trying to compare Hemsky and Green are you?

Hey, Crosby was injured and didn't have the best playoffs, guess Crosby and Hemsky are comparable too.
Why can't I? They are facing similar situations in terms of injuries impacting their career, and Hemsky is a 1st line talent not a scrub. Prior to last year Hemsky had the 15th best ppg of all wingers since the lockout, including being ahead of Rick Nash. Injuries are the only problem with Ales, he's a terrific player. Don't be foolish.

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06-07-2012, 01:34 AM
  #50
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Originally Posted by Erza Scarlet View Post
Smid and Petry would be lucky if they are impactful as Green can be.
Smid is going to be an elite defensive dman for a long time, watch a few Oiler games he was arguably our MVP this year. Smid is unreal, and is a legitimate 1st pairing defenseman. He just doesn't bring the offense of an elite guy.

Petry is a terrific player, reminds me alot of Alex Edler when he first broke into the league. People don't know much about Petry thanks to the kids up front but he was our top prospect or one of them for more than a few seasons. He's going to be a very good player for a long time.

My point was that both of them together is more valuable than Green, apart they are less valuable. Although in saying that Smid is probably much closer in ability than you realize. Teams need the Willie Mitchells and Robyn Reghers of the world to win too, and thats Smid. Green also has some major concerns over his groin, and like it or not (as we've seen with Hemsky) this hurts the value of a player even if he is a star (like Hemsky).

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