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Old
06-05-2012, 03:21 AM
  #26
STLBLUES44
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This would definitely be a stretch but I was just looking at the upcoming unrestricted and restricted free agent list and I noticed Dmitri Kulikov was an RFA. I personally think he's a very underrated defensemen around the league with solid defensive awareness and gifted puck movement and offensive ability. I would be thrilled to see him on the blue line with petro. I feel like we wouldn't pay him much more then we would to resign Jackman.

Could you imagine having Kulikov Petro

Russell/ cole shatty

Cole/ Russell Polak

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06-05-2012, 03:23 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by STLBLUES44 View Post
This would definitely be a stretch but I was just looking at the upcoming unrestricted and restricted free agent list and I noticed Dmitri Kulikov was an RFA. I personally think he's a very underrated defensemen around the league with solid defensive awareness and gifted puck movement and offensive ability. I would be thrilled to see him on the blue line with petro. I feel like we wouldn't pay him much more then we would to resign Jackman.

Could you imagine having Kulikov Petro

Russell/ cole shatty

Cole/ Russell Polak
I forgot to add if they possibly matched an offer we make to Kulikov or also Ellerby. they may not be able to go after Garrison, knocking one team off the Garrisson bid war.

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06-05-2012, 05:42 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by The Grouch View Post
Agreed! I wouldn't mind replacing Jackman with the right player(Ryan Suter looks good in Blue ), but Bryan Allen definitely isn't that player. Here is a comparison of their last three season's...

PlayerJackmanAllen
GP207228
G39
A4035
Pts.4344
+/-+26-10
ATOI21:2118:53
TGVT17.306.70

A lot of Blues fans won't admit it, but Barret Jackman is one of the more solid defensemen in the league. He continues to be underrated by his own fanbase.

I love Jackman and have defended him for years, but you're missing 2 fairly important stats for stay at home D men.

Jackman:
Hits- 254
Blocked Shots- 373

Allen:
Hits-349
Blocked Shots- 428

Allen is healthier, far more physical and a better shot blocker. More importantly, Allen is a crease clearer. The guy is 6'5" 230lbs, plays with a chip on his shoulder and has developed into one of the best "crease police" guys out there. Where Jackman has the edge over Allen is in terms of positioning and leverage, especially in the corners.

As far as ATOI and +/- ; Allen has played for Florida and Carolina the last 3 years. They are 2 of the worst teams in the League and neither plays anything close to a defensive system. They also both have a trio of offensive D men(Kulikov, Ballard, McCabe, Pitkanen, McBain, Corvo, Harrison, Faulk) who got most of the ice time(which might be part of the reason they are so bad defensively).

Jackman and Allen are definitely in the same category as defensive D men. Jackman is better in the corners, Allen is better in the crease. Personally, given how we got man-handled in front of the net against LA; I'd prefer Allen to Jackman.

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06-05-2012, 03:03 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by kimzey59 View Post
I love Jackman and have defended him for years, but you're missing 2 fairly important stats for stay at home D men.

Jackman:
Hits- 254
Blocked Shots- 373

Allen:
Hits-349
Blocked Shots- 428

I didn't miss those stats, blocked shots certainly has some validity(I'm not sure I agree that more hitting equals better defense, especially when comparing 1.23 hits per game to 1.53 hits per game, both are physical players), but both of these stats are better looked at in the broad context of a complete defensive game, which is much better represented with the GVT stat. A defenseman could block 750 shots and execute 500 hits and still be the worst defenseman in the league. When looking at the overall defensive performance, I think Jackman is superior, and the stats seem to back that up.


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Originally Posted by kimzey59 View Post
Allen is healthier, far more physical and a better shot blocker. More importantly, Allen is a crease clearer. The guy is 6'5" 230lbs, plays with a chip on his shoulder and has developed into one of the best "crease police" guys out there. Where Jackman has the edge over Allen is in terms of positioning and leverage, especially in the corners.

With the exception of better shot blocker, which is too close to call(in the last 5 seasons it's 1.77 blocks per game for Allen, to 1.75 blocks per game for Jackman), and healthier(in the last 5 seasons it's 107 games missed for Allen, to 43 games missed for Jackman, there really isn't any way to know who will miss more games going forward),I don't disagree here.


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Originally Posted by kimzey59 View Post
Jackman and Allen are definitely in the same category as defensive D men. Jackman is better in the corners, Allen is better in the crease. Personally, given how we got man-handled in front of the net against LA; I'd prefer Allen to Jackman.

I don't disagree that Jackman and Allen are similar defensemen, I just happen to think Jackman is more effective, you seem to be of a different opinion, which is fine.

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06-05-2012, 06:26 PM
  #30
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I don't hate Allen but I don't think just replacing Jackman with Allen & promoting Cole to full time status really solves much. We really have to try and remember what happened to the team without Pietrangelo. We should all remember. It pretty much killed any chance to compete. LA seems to be a juggernaut regardless but losing Pietrangelo should have scared us enough into realizing you gotta have someone who can really be relied on as an anchor. The "true" top pair guy. They need to add one more player. This is very difficult to do but there's no way around it's what the team needs to do. Halfassing a fix is no fix. So if they're not going to fix it until later (maybe an in-season trade) then IMO they shouldn't lose Jackman AND have no fix.

IMO there are only two UFAs who really fit – Suter and Garrison. Otherwise they'll have to make a trade to get that guy and it will cost.

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06-05-2012, 09:03 PM
  #31
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I hope the blues make an offer to the coyotes for Keith Yandle. The Coyotes are loaded on defense and have several good looking devensive prospects. However they could use some young forwards which the blues have a surplus of. I believe Phoenix wants rid of Yandle. His average TOI last year was 24:20 and this year was only 22:20. Down the stretch His TOI lingered at about 20min and in the playoffs it was only 21:27. His playing time has diminished because he is a liablity in his own zone. It sounds funny to say but this is the exact type of player the blues need. A d-man who isn't affraid to jump up in the play, go coast to coast with the puck, and make plays on the PP. We have the best backchecking team in the league with shutdown d-men which will offset Yanlde's bad positioning (Not to mention he is left handed). The big negative is he has a 5.2m cap hit. I would love to see this happen. I am confeident he will be traded this offseason, I just hope it is to the Blues.

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06-05-2012, 09:27 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by STLBLUES44 View Post
I forgot to add if they possibly matched an offer we make to Kulikov or also Ellerby. they may not be able to go after Garrison, knocking one team off the Garrisson bid war.
Until they decide to screw us with an offer sheet to Perron and/or Oshie. It is why you don't see teams go after RFAs very often.

We have a ton of upcoming RFAs over the next few seasons, so lets not piss anyone off and give them a reason to screw us over in the future.

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06-06-2012, 09:16 PM
  #33
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I think Jackman brings a lot to the table even though I know a lot of others disagree. While the Blues have some really talented defenseman they lack toughness in the back end and Jackman is one of the only that doesn't mind confrontation. Free Agency doesn't offer much like others have said Stuart wants to play out West and Suter will probably get picked up by Detroit. I honestly would like to see Jackman stay with the Blues because his style of play is something the Blues can't lose when the opposition piles in front of the net. I would think it would make more sense to let Carlo go because of his lack of intensity and physical play.

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06-06-2012, 10:41 PM
  #34
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I'm fine with bringing back Jackman AND signing a guy like Allen. I really don't care as long as Colaiacovo's idiotic self is sent far away.

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06-06-2012, 11:50 PM
  #35
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I'm fine with bringing back Jackman AND signing a guy like Allen. I really don't care as long as Colaiacovo's idiotic self is sent far away.
You do realize, do you not, that the Blues were pretty much the best defensive team in hockey last year with "Colaiacovo's idiotic self" playing 19:00 a game, behind only Pietrangelo, Shattenkirk and Jackman among defensemen?

I know Colaiacovo is everyone's favorite whipping boy around here, but maybe he's more important to the team's success -- and chemistry -- than any of us realize?

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06-06-2012, 11:54 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by pricer502 View Post
I hope the blues make an offer to the coyotes for Keith Yandle. The Coyotes are loaded on defense and have several good looking devensive prospects. However they could use some young forwards which the blues have a surplus of. I believe Phoenix wants rid of Yandle. His average TOI last year was 24:20 and this year was only 22:20. Down the stretch His TOI lingered at about 20min and in the playoffs it was only 21:27. His playing time has diminished because he is a liablity in his own zone. It sounds funny to say but this is the exact type of player the blues need. A d-man who isn't affraid to jump up in the play, go coast to coast with the puck, and make plays on the PP. We have the best backchecking team in the league with shutdown d-men which will offset Yanlde's bad positioning (Not to mention he is left handed). The big negative is he has a 5.2m cap hit. I would love to see this happen. I am confeident he will be traded this offseason, I just hope it is to the Blues.
$5.2MM is an awful lot to pay for a power play specialist with bad defensive positioning and no physical game to speak of, don't you think?


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06-07-2012, 12:04 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by simon in canada View Post
I hear you, and you make good points, but when you mentioned Fairchild, you touched a nerve, something I've been dwelling on for a while. I agree, Fairchild is ready to breakout. BUT, that gives us a projected top 6 a year or two from now that includes Fairchild, Shatty and Russell. Lots of puck movement, but very ,very, wimpy. One of those guys has to go in a trade, IMO, and I think it's Fairchild. trade him while his value is high.
I'm gonna go out on a limb here and guess that you've never actually seen Cade Fairchild play, have you?

"Wimpy" is hardly the first word I'd use to describe Fairchild's play.

He's not the biggest guy out there on defense, but he's not afraid, and does not shy away from physical play. No, he's not going to toss the big power forwards around back there, but he's not going to avoid going after them in the corners and in front of the net, either.

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06-07-2012, 12:28 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Prussian_Blue View Post
You do realize, do you not, that the Blues were pretty much the best defensive team in hockey last year with "Colaiacovo's idiotic self" playing 19:00 a game, behind only Pietrangelo, Shattenkirk and Jackman among defensemen?

I know Colaiacovo is everyone's favorite whipping boy around here, but maybe he's more important to the team's success -- and chemistry -- than any of us realize?
Yeah, because playing with Pietrangelo didn't help at all.

Colaiacovo is not that good. Oh, but since we were the best team I guess we MUST bring everyone back, right? No. We can improve even more.

Also, that best defensive team also had quite a bit to do with Halak, Elliott, the forwards (Backes, Oshie, Steen, etc)... but yeah let's just forget about that. Alright.

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06-07-2012, 01:24 AM
  #39
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Colaiacovo has the ability to put up points from the top but as a defenseman he seems more interested in playing offense than defense and is now notorious for turning the puck over and making bad passes. I think Shatty plays the kind of game that Colaiacovo used to but better. Colaiacovo looked decent compare to our past defenseman to the likes of Strachan, Weaver, and Sydor but now that the Blues are starting to develop a good back end he seems less than average. The Blues need toughness on defense that's why I say they really need to keep Jackman.

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06-07-2012, 04:08 AM
  #40
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Am I the only one that likes Matt Carle? The guy can out skate 90% of NHL forwards. It takes someone with that ability to keep up on a line with Alex. Not to mention we could use him on the powerplay point.He also will cost much much less then some of the others suggested. He also plays a steady game come playoff time. If you look at his history of teams he knows how to play on a winning team.

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06-07-2012, 09:28 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Prussian_Blue View Post
$5.2MM is an awful lot to pay for a power play specialist with bad defensive positioning and no physical game to speak of, don't you think?

Although Yandle is not physical and sometimes gets burned by jumping up in the play he is still a good defensive player and by far makes up for his mistakes in the offensive end. His numbers say it all.
09-10 Plus 16
10-11 Plus 12
11-12 Plus 5
Those are not the numbers of a bad defensive defensmen.

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06-07-2012, 09:51 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Prussian_Blue View Post
You do realize, do you not, that the Blues were pretty much the best defensive team in hockey last year with "Colaiacovo's idiotic self" playing 19:00 a game, behind only Pietrangelo, Shattenkirk and Jackman among defensemen?

I know Colaiacovo is everyone's favorite whipping boy around here, but maybe he's more important to the team's success -- and chemistry -- than any of us realize?

The only thing Colo would be able to hang his hat on would be the ever-nebulous chemistry. Perhaps Pietrangelo needs to be able to save someone all the time and the Blues require a partner for him that is good at being inept?

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06-07-2012, 11:38 AM
  #43
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Yandle – if he's really available he's right at the top of the list. Have watched him a lot and he's just a fantastic hockey player. I would very much hope the Blues are involved in that. Ironically, Staal-for-Yandle is the context in which it started getting discussed and, frustratingly, that makes sense. Though perhaps it allows the Pens to trade one of Morrow or Despres.

Carle – soft, bad defensive hockey sense. Point totals inflated by injuries giving him more ice time and PP time and the Flyers getting into pinball scoring games so often where he picks up secondary assists. Very, very low on my want list. Remember a year ago when much of the discussion was on Coburn and Carle and Coburn was clearly the one of the two we would've wanted? There's a reason Philly locked up Coburn and not Carle. He will also come at a pricetag in the 4M range and would be the prototypical defender who would crumble under LA Kings type pressure in the d-zone.

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06-07-2012, 04:20 PM
  #44
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I didn't know there was a possibility of Yandle leaving Phoenix I thought he signed a 5 year contract last year. He's one of those players that will fit in good wherever he goes. Carle looked a lot better than what he is from playing with Kimmo Timonen. Until the Blues lander Suter or Stuart, Jackman is about as good as it gets at LD. Cole definitely has some skill that can develop him into a first line LD but he'll also needs to develop some toughness in order to protect our golden boy Petro in the back line.

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06-07-2012, 04:26 PM
  #45
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I doubt Yandle is made available. Many Coyotes fans expect him to be the next captain. If he is available it's probably for a top-two center ala Staal, not a winger package which is what we'd have to offer. Coyotes need a top center as much or more than we do.

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06-07-2012, 06:20 PM
  #46
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I doubt Yandle is made available. Many Coyotes fans expect him to be the next captain. If he is available it's probably for a top-two center ala Staal, not a winger package which is what we'd have to offer. Coyotes need a top center as much or more than we do.
I comepletely agree with you that the Coyotes biggest weakness is probably center, so a trade with Pitt. makes alot more sense. Phoenix is loaded on D but is weak at forward. What they do have might not even be back next year (Whitney and Doan). I really believe they trade Yandle for forward help for reasons i mentioned earlier. Coyotes obviously don't like something about Yandle's game, he was even moved off the first power play unit down the stretch and some of the playoffs in favor of Ekman Larsson.

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06-07-2012, 06:41 PM
  #47
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I comepletely agree with you that the Coyotes biggest weakness is probably center, so a trade with Pitt. makes alot more sense. Phoenix is loaded on D but is weak at forward. What they do have might not even be back next year (Whitney and Doan). I really believe they trade Yandle for forward help for reasons i mentioned earlier. Coyotes obviously don't like something about Yandle's game, he was even moved off the first power play unit down the stretch and some of the playoffs in favor of Ekman Larsson.
I would not say it's because they didn't like something in Yandle's game as much as OEL being just that good to take his spot. I would love to have OEL as Pietrangelo's partner. I just think most people know OEL is the last player PHX would trade he may not have as good of numbers but OEL is to PHX what Pietrangelo is to us.

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06-07-2012, 06:45 PM
  #48
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I would not say it's because they didn't like something in Yandle's game as much as OEL being just that good to take his spot.
Agree. I'll believe it when I see it as far as trading Yandle but if any franchise has the defensive assets to fade that loss it's Phoenix, and they will get a big return.

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06-07-2012, 07:39 PM
  #49
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Yandle is a staple in Phoenix just like Doan is, I don't look for either of them to leave. Ekman Larsson is putting up some really good numbers at only age 20 they will probably want to keep him also. The only defenseman I could see them letting go is Rozsival.

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06-07-2012, 11:05 PM
  #50
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I shudder to think what it would take to pry Yandle out of Phoenix. Stewart wouldn't do it; he wouldn't work there for the same reasons that he doesn't work here.You'd probably have to part with one of Perron or Oshie, which is not something I'd be willing to entertain.

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