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Randy Cunneyworth and Randy Ladouceur relieved of their duties

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Old
06-07-2012, 07:15 AM
  #101
hockeyfan2k11
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Originally Posted by Talks to Goalposts View Post
That's the thing, they really weren't a bad team at 30 games. They got of to a rough start by playing very well in the beginning heavily out chancing their opponents but losing largely due to bad luck. They had gotten into a hole so making the playoffs would was up in the air but they weren't out of it yet. Also there is a large gap from being out of the playoffs and close and 15th, although even the Cunneyworth squad was unfortunate to be that far down.

The Cammalleri incident came under his watch and seemed targeted at Cunneyworth's ineffective efforts at simplification of the teams strategy. Kostitsyn was mis-used and buried for far less effective players, became persona non grata and went from making noises about how much he wanted to resign here to out the door. Losing those two was largely what turned the injury situation at forward from a handicap to crippling and was the reason.

For the critical stretch of time between Cunneyworth taking over and the trade deadline the Habs were reasonably healthy, the defense except for Markov were largely in place and they had Gionta for 10 games at least. They were a shadow of the team that played the first 20 games though.

The powerplay under Martin was getting plenty of chances and probably would rebound. Under Cunneyworth they collapsed to the point were they deserved to be were they were, although losing Cammalleri was likely a significant factor there.

Anyways, this has been discussed to the point of nausea elsewhere and I have little interest in recapping it for someone convinced otherwise.

As it stood, in real hockey terms (no SO and no empty net goals) Montreal was a relatively decent -2., 6th in the East. Even with injuries and trading away talent this squad played more like a bubble team than a cellar dweller.
Do the players share any responsibility here? Cammy was always unhappy, even back to when the team was WINNING with Martin...he questioned the system.

Gotta love the "We were near the bottom, but I know for a fact with Martin we would have somehow made the playoffs". Doesn't work that way. Sorry.

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06-07-2012, 07:34 AM
  #102
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They had a very realistic shot that Gauthier completely annihilated.
Well, actually, they had a mathematical shot at the playoffs. It wasn't actually very "realistic" though, given that they were in the middle of a 1-7 slump at the time, and had more wins than only two other teams in the conference (Islanders/Hurricanes) despite having played more games than the teams around them in the standings. Cunneyworth started off with 3 wins in 10 games, which is exactly how Martin left off with the same team.

By the time of the Cammy/Bourque trade Montreal had the 2nd fewest wins in the East, and were 3 points out of last. By the time Andrei was moved, the Habs were in last place. I think a stronger argument is that Gauthier "annihilated" their chances in the previous off season with the combination of both what he did and didn't, as opposed to pointing to mid-season coaching and personnel changes.

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06-07-2012, 08:58 AM
  #103
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Feel bad for both guys, appreciate the work they done for the team however I think there are better candidates for assistants than these two guys.
LOL

What they did for the Habs ? 3rd overall pick ?


I feel bad for them emotionnally because the language situation was badly handled, but other than that, for the quality of their coaching and the results last season, the lack of adjustments on the run during games, and the CONSTANT use of Gomez on the ****ing PP untill much too late in the season, they deserved to be fired.

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06-07-2012, 09:19 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
Are you kidding me? He knew from day one, he was done and so did the players. You try to motivate people who know you will be gone in a few months. He wasn't the greatest coach, but I liked the guy. Hopefully he'll land on his feet and become a good NHL coach.

There was no way he was coming back unless the team won the cup.
These are professional hockey players, not children. You're putting entirely too much stock into just how much "motivating" NHL coaches actually do.

On the other hand, if we really do have a team of players who need to be motivated just to try and make the playoffs, maybe we have a problem with the players first and foremost.

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But they're hired as a replacement, not just a plug for a few months until they eventually get the can. He was hired to be fired.
Didn't seem to hinder Dale Hunter in Washington. Virtually everyone knew he'd be going back to London at the end of the year and he still managed to do his job.

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You can't hire a coach and then announce just a few moments later that he won't be with us beyond this season and apologize for hiring him. What they did was bush league. They made the stupid move of hiring an unproven anglo, they should of stood by their terrible decision.

Completely threw him under the bus to try and save face, disgraceful imo.
Again, very little of this has anything to do with the actual on-ice results by which coaches are judged. If Cunneyworth had gotten us to the playoffs, or even out of the basement (which is not nearly the impossible task people here are trying to make it out to be), none of this would even be an issue.

I've got nothing against the man, but can we please stop trying to make him out to be this martyr who died for Gauthier's sins? He's gone because he wasn't a very good coach, and that's fine by me.

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06-07-2012, 09:24 AM
  #105
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Well, actually, they had a mathematical shot at the playoffs. It wasn't actually very "realistic" though, given that they were in the middle of a 1-7 slump at the time
I'm not sure where that "middle of a 1-7 slump" notion comes from. They had come off their first regulation loss of the month and that was following two wins. Now, I don't know how you're interpreting this, but "the middle of a 1-7 slump" doesn't really jive with "2 wins in their last 3 games". My math might be off but I don't think 2-1 fits into 1-7.

Now, there was a 1-7 stretch involved -- that was the stretch immediately following the Martin firing, where the team went 1-7-0, which annihilated any chances of playoffs.

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06-07-2012, 09:25 AM
  #106
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I don't get why so many people feel bad for him. How many people even get a chance to coach at the NHL level? The Habs gave Cunneyworth a chance to be head coach. Even if its only for half a season, its an opportunity no other team has given him. Time will tell whether he gets another shot or not, but he should be (and probably will/has) thanking the Habs for giving him that opportunity.

The language issue was dumb, but lets be honest, if he gets the Habs into the playoffs last year, there's a much better chance that he stays with the team.

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06-07-2012, 09:34 AM
  #107
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Randy was not a good coach at all, hope eventually he gets a job with the leafs or bruins.

Prefer MT2 for sure!!!

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06-07-2012, 09:44 AM
  #108
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Did Journal de Montreal really run a"Bye Bye Randy" headline?

Pathetic.

Cunneyworth was a poor coach and I really don't blame them at all for not keeping him as an assistant or whatever, but the obsession by the French media is ridiculous.

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06-07-2012, 09:45 AM
  #109
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What a garbage news paper....

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06-07-2012, 09:51 AM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
Did Journal de Montreal really run a"Bye Bye Randy" headline?

Pathetic.

Cunneyworth was a poor coach and I really don't blame them at all for not keeping him as an assistant or whatever, but the obsession by the French media is ridiculous.
change the french media by JDM

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06-07-2012, 10:00 AM
  #111
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change the french media by JDM
Well I've heard they were mocking him on l'antichambre too, but they shouldn't represent all of the Quebec media either.

The JDM is a joke though.

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06-07-2012, 10:06 AM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
Well I've heard they were mocking him on l'antichambre too, but they shouldn't represent all of the Quebec media either.

The JDM is a joke though.
Yeah JDM is really bad. If you want to read about non-issue like an immigrant who asked to see a female doctor or about how many people in Montreal can't read a Molière book it's a perfect news paper.... Or really good survey like Do you like rain? etc.

Only good thing in there is the cinema part on Saturday.

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06-07-2012, 10:44 AM
  #113
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Quebecor and PKP are scum of the Earth.

JDM and Sun News. It's disgusting.

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06-07-2012, 10:57 AM
  #114
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Quebecor and PKP are scum of the Earth.

JDM and Sun News. It's disgusting.
If Quebecor gets the Nordiques back I can only imagine the propaganda they will run.

Canada and Quebec's version of News Corp - the lowest always wins.

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06-07-2012, 11:10 AM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Jack Bourdain View Post
Quebecor and PKP are scum of the Earth.

JDM and Sun News. It's disgusting.
You my friend deserve a beer !!

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06-07-2012, 12:00 PM
  #116
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MT wasted no time. Kind of impressive. Stalin like. Shows he has confidence anyway, and perhaps even a plan.

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I mean that the pressure he was put under was like a revolver to the head. Still showed up for work daily & was very professional. He got through it, made some history & then got strung along in limbo for another month with "NEW" Mgmt to end up losing his job. It's unfair...

Cunneyworth will probably be a trivia Question in 50 years. "Who was the last Anglo Habs Coach?....."
I think the guy might have management ability. To control his emotions as he did under immense pressure and yes, hate, was remarkable.

Maybe management is better for him, not coaching.

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Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
I can't think of too many coaches who on the day of their hire, was pretty much told there was NO WAY they would be back...publicly at that. Every interim coach has some sort of a chance. Montreal is a different beast. An anglo coach has NO WAY of being retained. So, I wouldn't compare it to the other guys out there who were fired.

I couldn't care less what experience he learned. He was treated like complete **** and it was embarrassing. I'm sure Molson didn't like any of that and even mentioned it ("restoring class") when Gauthier was fired.

You don't think people around the league looked at the Cunney situation and felt bad for him? He was treated like horse dung and I can't condone it or soften the blow by saying the job is unfair or that he got his foot in the door.
A very admirable guy. Just a **** situation, he could have said **** you, and he did not. He kept the team together at least.

You know. It takes many small things to make a champion team, and RC showed the players, CP, Max, PK and others, that you must keep going, no matter how bad. Have some pride.

There was in particular one interview, where he was asked if the team did not care about winning, or was tanking, and he said in effect:

"This is the Montreal Canadiens, and we always play to win."

I'll never forget that. And I'll always appreciate what the guy did.


Last edited by Habsfan18: 06-07-2012 at 12:16 PM. Reason: merge
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Old
06-07-2012, 12:18 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Halakalakaboom View Post
LOL

What they did for the Habs ? 3rd overall pick ?


I feel bad for them emotionnally because the language situation was badly handled, but other than that, for the quality of their coaching and the results last season, the lack of adjustments on the run during games, and the CONSTANT use of Gomez on the ****ing PP untill much too late in the season, they deserved to be fired.
Wtf are you talking about? Where did I say they did a good job coaching? I said I appreciated the work they did for the team and that we can find better assistant coaches than them.

They did a solid job in Hamilton almost getting the team to the finals the year before and then they had to put up with all the language **** this year.. they did their best in a horrible situation, that's what I appreciated.

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06-07-2012, 12:27 PM
  #118
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should be fired, he sucked. When you suck at a job, you get fired. Even at McDonalds.
McDonald's DESIGNS their system such that human ability does not count. That's what makes them so wonderfully evil, and makes them the largest low wage employer in the world.

I bought an egg McMuffin and coffee in Shanghai this morning, for 90 cents Canadian. It wasn't bad either. And the staff were pleasant.

It is very ****ing hard to **** up the fries at McDos dude. They come out the same every time, every day, every country in the world.

MAN! I just love this modern world we live in!

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06-07-2012, 12:31 PM
  #119
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MT wasted no time. Kind of impressive. Stalin like. Shows he has confidence anyway, and perhaps even a plan.

I think the guy might have management ability. To control his emotions as he did under immense pressure and yes, hate, was remarkable.

Maybe management is better for him, not coaching.


A very admirable guy. Just a **** situation, he could have said **** you, and he did not. He kept the team together at least.

You know. It takes many small things to make a champion team, and RC showed the players, CP, Max, PK and others, that you must keep going, no matter how bad. Have some pride.

There was in particular one interview, where he was asked if the team did not care about winning, or was tanking, and he said in effect:

"This is the Montreal Canadiens, and we always play to win."

I'll never forget that. And I'll always appreciate what the guy did.

I really don't know why people get so tangled up with RC. The guy did a horrible job.

He gets extra sympathy because of the language issue, but it's gotten to the point where some flat out dismiss the fact he was garbage.

Enough with the ''crap'' situation. The man had a chance to coach the most storied franchise in the NHL, it was a huge opportunity for him, and he blew it. Plain and simple.
I don't buy the fact Gauthier controlled everything. RC had his foot in the decision making on the team in terms of system and structure, or lack there of, as well as bench management during games. He was horrible at that.
If one chooses to believe Gauthier was running that part, then RC should have told Gauthier to let him coach or fire him. Why would he agree to sit behind the bench and let the team drag down the standings, only to get blamed for it?? Unless he got a couple millions as a bonus under the table, it makes no sense.

As for his ''This is the Habs, we play to win'' BS comment. It sounds like when fighters talk on the mic and scream the name of the city in which they're in only get some cheers.
If we played to win the games, then why keep the DD line intact when, despite it producing, we keep losing? Why was the same damn plays ran when they weren't effective? Why was skilled players like AK or Eller demoted only to promote guys like Blunden? Why was our best line to start the year of AK-Eller-Moen split up? Why was it always the same unit starting our PPs? Why do you bench a player after you give him a task he was bound to fail? Why do you bench a player for the whole 3rd period + OT only to put him as the last shooter in the Shootouts?
Are you really playing to win when you so many incomprehensible decisions??

RC was a horrible coach, enough with the sympathy.


People crap on Gainey, Gauthier, Martin, Carbo, Therrien, but RC gets some sympathy because of the language issue. I hate all those french morons that made it into something, but RC deserves every bit of criticism for his coaching.

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06-07-2012, 12:44 PM
  #120
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Please tell me how he ran 2 underperforming players out of town? Help me understand this.

Also, the team was 4 points out while playing 2-3 games more than anyone else early in the season. That's one hell of a gap for a poor team. Then add all the injuries (which people seem to discount with Randy but make every excuse for with Martin)...and then you add Kaberle and one of the worst pp's in the league... How was this team supposed to make the playoffs again?
I cannot ****ing believe the lack of sympathy (look up the word, it's quite precise, and human) on this board for RC.

Sure he was a **** coach, and it's time to clean house. We all know that. No one is saying keep the guy as coach for god's sake.

That's not the point, what most guys are saying here is he stood up to the job, and he represented the Habs well in a ****ing bad situation, that's all.

Jeez, ****ing emo crap here sometimes. Take a valium and just discuss sometimes.

I'm going to click on that head shake fat faced blue guy if you guys keep going, I swear. Don't make me do that. Don't make me go that far.

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06-07-2012, 12:55 PM
  #121
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Well I've heard they were mocking him on l'antichambre too, but they shouldn't represent all of the Quebec media either.

The JDM is a joke though.
I haven't been in Montreal for a while. Do they still show **** on page 3? I like that.

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06-07-2012, 12:57 PM
  #122
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06-07-2012, 12:58 PM
  #123
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Yeah JDM is really bad. If you want to read about non-issue like an immigrant who asked to see a female doctor or about how many people in Montreal can't read a Molière book it's a perfect news paper.... Or really good survey like Do you like rain? etc.

Only good thing in there is the cinema part on Saturday.
90% of French in MTL don't read Moliere. And I should know, I had three french girlfriends at McGill, and they couldn't be arsed. Too busy having fun.

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06-07-2012, 02:13 PM
  #124
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Wtf are you talking about? Where did I say they did a good job coaching? I said I appreciated the work they did for the team and that we can find better assistant coaches than them.

They did a solid job in Hamilton almost getting the team to the finals the year before and then they had to put up with all the language **** this year.. they did their best in a horrible situation, that's what I appreciated.
Okay. We can agree to disagree. They are professionnal and should not be affected much by media issues, imo. RC came in and the team went on a losing streak, and instead of changing things he tried things that were blatantly STUPID. For example :

1- Using Rene Bourque on the PK and facing the other team's best lines, in each and every single games he's been here. No rocket science why the guy is -XX, he's been put in terrible mismatches.

2- Using Scott Gomez on the 2nd PP unit even though he had been struggling for God knows how long, thus not giving PP time to Eller, untill much too late in the season.

3- Using Kaberle for way too many minutes at even strenght.

4- Misusing A.Kost, he's a top 6 winger and he played so many games on the bottom lines it isn't even funny.

5- Not figuring out that you need 2 scoring lines to win games and keeping the Cole - DD - patch line together instead of breaking that line and have your best center (Plek) play with one of your best winger, creating two good duos instead of one good trio. DD needed big wingers and oh surprise, Bourque or A.Kost could have played with him. Also, Cole and Plek had good chemistry for the short amount of time they played together.

6- Playing Gorges / Weber on the 2nd PP unit instead of Emelin. Emelin looks like a boss when he plays with the coach's confidence (I saw a much different Emelin at the WC than how he was playing with the Habs), and has good vision and a decent shot. Emelin will surely develop in a really solid and reliable 2-way defenseman if he can get some PP time, on the second unit.

7- Playing Price way too many games. Budaj is a good backup and should play more games to have Price full of energy for important games.

8- RC let RL run the practices, and while I don't think it's a big issue, the head coach should always be the one to bark louder than the others.


How can you apreciate the work the did ? The results speak for themselves. Sure they had a cup run with Hamilton. Big deal. For Hamiltonians.

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06-07-2012, 02:29 PM
  #125
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I've got nothing against the man, but can we please stop trying to make him out to be this martyr who died for Gauthier's sins? He's gone because he wasn't a very good coach, and that's fine by me.
With all due respect to Cunnyworth, I really wonder how much of the "coaching " decisions were really his? With Gauthier being such a control freak, I really wonder who was actually coaching the team. The system didnt change under cunneyworth at all when he took over from JM, and I have trouble understanding or believing that Cunnyworth would have left everything as is considering the team was doing poorly at that time. Could he have had directions from above to just go with the flow?

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