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Old
06-06-2012, 08:18 PM
  #26
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Originally Posted by FLAMES666 View Post
Definitely, they addressed the max contract for rookies the last CBA. but they always seem to find a loop hole. Some young gun ex.Erixon should not have the power to control a team like that, pretty ridiculous.
At first I felt this way, but then I realized that teams shouldn't get to "own" kids in order to let them play in the NHL and have their own careers.

There should be risks to drafting; it's what makes the game dynamic and interesting. If one route was risk free, then every team would take that route and there would be no alternative ways to win.

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06-06-2012, 08:51 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by MarkGio View Post
At first I felt this way, but then I realized that teams shouldn't get to "own" kids in order to let them play in the NHL and have their own careers.

There should be risks to drafting; it's what makes the game dynamic and interesting. If one route was risk free, then every team would take that route and there would be no alternative ways to win.
Once you give younger kids power it would turn in to a disaster though. They would want to go to teams that are doing well. They should be humble to be drafted by a certain team and stick with them.

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06-06-2012, 08:52 PM
  #28
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Interesting, wonder what round he will go in. 2nd-3rd round maybe??

This really needs to be addressed in the upcoming CBA and it shouldn't to hard to address either as these guys aren't even NHL players yet when they get drafted. If they don't sign with the team that drafts them there should a suspension of time (ie. 3 years) where they are not eligible to play in the NHL providing the team was ethical in their contract signing process.

Ultimately, if a drafted player fails to sign with the team that drafted them, after the deadline elapses to sign a player I would turn it over to an arbitrator to make the ruling as to whether or not it qualifies for a suspension.
If I'm not mistaken I think the NBA has pre-set contracts for newly drafted players, perhaps this is the way to go. It eliminates the Erixon's and Schultz's from the fold and protects the teams and it protects the players by guaranteeing them a contract, because lets be honest there is more situations like Leach where the team doesn't offer a deal than there is players who just don't sign.

I think this would have to result in the 50 contract limit being altered as well. IMO they would have to change it up so that a team is allowed 'X' number of ELC's and 'X' number of "veteran" contracts.

Have it set up something like this.

1st rounders
  • 1st overall gets $5.0 million ($1.5 million salary, $3.5 million bonuses)
  • 2-5 overall gets 4.0 (1.0 salary, 3.0 bonuses)
  • 6-10 overall gets 3.0 ($0.9 salary, 2.1 bonuses)
  • 11-20 overall gets 2.0 ($0.9 salary, 1.1 bonuses)
  • 21-30 overall gets 1.5 (0.9 salary, 0.6 bonuses)

2nd rounders
  • 31-45 overall gets 1.2 (0.8 salary, 0.4 bonuses)
  • 46-60 overall gets 1.0 (0.8 salary, 0.2 bonuses)

3rd rounders
  • 61-90 get 0.9 (0.75 salary, 0.15 bonuses)

4th rounders
  • 91-120 get 0.8 (0.7 salary, 0.1 bonuses)

5th rounders
  • 121-150 get 0.7 (0.65 salary, 0.05 bonuses)

6th rounders
  • 151-180 get 0.6 (0.6 salary, no bonuses)

7th rounders
  • 181-210 get 0.55 (0.55 salary, no bonuses)

then when it comes to roster size instead of having a 50 contract limit I would allow each team the following:
  • 35 Rookie Contracts (Including sliding ELCs) - I picked this number for the simple fact each team gets 7 picks a year to start, and each contract can slide for 2 years, meaning an ELC can essentially last 5 years.
  • 30 Veteran Contracts - I picked this number because it allows a team to fill their 23 man roster with veteran contracts if they so choose and have 7 spots available on the farm team for players not on rookie contracts.

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06-06-2012, 08:56 PM
  #29
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Have it set up something like this.

1st rounders
  • 1st overall gets $5.0 million ($1.5 million salary, $3.5 million bonuses)
  • 2-5 overall gets 4.0 (1.0 salary, 3.0 bonuses)
  • 6-10 overall gets 3.0 ($0.9 salary, 2.1 bonuses)
  • 11-20 overall gets 2.0 ($0.9 salary, 1.1 bonuses)
  • 21-30 overall gets 1.5 (0.9 salary, 0.6 bonuses)

2nd rounders
  • 31-45 overall gets 1.2 (0.8 salary, 0.4 bonuses)
  • 46-60 overall gets 1.0 (0.8 salary, 0.2 bonuses)

3rd rounders
  • 61-90 get 0.9 (0.75 salary, 0.15 bonuses)

4th rounders
  • 91-120 get 0.8 (0.7 salary, 0.1 bonuses)

5th rounders
  • 121-150 get 0.7 (0.65 salary, 0.05 bonuses)

6th rounders
  • 151-180 get 0.6 (0.6 salary, no bonuses)

7th rounders
  • 181-210 get 0.55 (0.55 salary, no bonuses)

then when it comes to roster size instead of having a 50 contract limit I would allow each team the following:
  • 35 Rookie Contracts (Including sliding ELCs) - I picked this number for the simple fact each team gets 7 picks a year to start, and each contract can slide for 2 years, meaning an ELC can essentially last 5 years.
  • 30 Veteran Contracts - I picked this number because it allows a team to fill their 23 man roster with veteran contracts if they so choose and have 7 spots available on the farm team for players not on rookie contracts.
I should also add teams would be allowed to exceed the 35 rookie contracts, but each contract over 35 takes the place of a veteran contract.

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Old
06-06-2012, 08:56 PM
  #30
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I honestly don't think the system is that bad there is like what 1 player a year that doesn't want sign with his team for what ever reason (aka doesn't think he will be given a fair shot, doesn't like the city, doesn't like the contract offer) But there are tons of teams that don't sign players for what ever reason.

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06-06-2012, 09:03 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by TheGleninator View Post
I honestly don't think the system is that bad there is like what 1 player a year that doesn't want sign with his team for what ever reason (aka doesn't think he will be given a fair shot, doesn't like the city, doesn't like the contract offer) But there are tons of teams that don't sign players for what ever reason.
Yeah it doesn't happen often. These players have to jump through some serious hoops to get out of their contract anyways. There should be loopholes somewhere, so if a player really absolutely hates an organization, they should have a challenging way to be free.

These are grown men. They shouldn't be treated like slaves. If they can drink beer and enlist themselves, they should be able to play hockey without being owned.

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06-06-2012, 09:06 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by FLAMES666 View Post
Once you give younger kids power it would turn in to a disaster though. They would want to go to teams that are doing well. They should be humble to be drafted by a certain team and stick with them.
Why should they? Honest question.

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06-06-2012, 09:07 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by MarkGio View Post
Yeah it doesn't happen often. These players have to jump through some serious hoops to get out of their contract anyways. There should be loopholes somewhere, so if a player really absolutely hates an organization, they should have a challenging way to be free.

These are grown men. They shouldn't be treated like slaves. If they can drink beer and enlist themselves, they should be able to play hockey without being owned.
Technically some of them are 20 and can't drink in the states

I agree tho these may be dream jobs but they are still jobs and their lives if they are from the east and are drafted to Edmonton and hate it there then they shouldn't be forced to stay there for 3+ years.

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06-06-2012, 09:23 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by TheGleninator View Post
Technically some of them are 20 and can't drink in the states

I agree tho these may be dream jobs but they are still jobs and their lives if they are from the east and are drafted to Edmonton and hate it there then they shouldn't be forced to stay there for 3+ years.
Yes sir; especially if it's Edmonton. I guess on the other side of the spectrum, it's good for the game to give failing organizations a handicap in order to have a fighting chance, such as Edmonton. I'm sure if players could help who drafts them, Edmonton would be getting fickle figure skaters in the draft.

Dream job? Lol. Yes and no. I'm sure Marc Savard isn't having a good time waking up puking every morning. Likwise for guys like Pelech and PL3. I don't think they have it all bad with their wonderful salaries and all, but they also sacrifice a lot.


Last edited by MarkGio: 06-06-2012 at 10:37 PM.
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06-06-2012, 09:27 PM
  #35
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Yes sir; especially if it's Edmonton. I guess on the other side of the spectrum, it's good for the game to give failing organizations a handicap in order to have a fighting chance, such as Edmonton. I'm sure if players could help who drafts them, Edmonton would be getting fickle figure skaters in the draft.

Dream job? Lol. Yes and no. I'm sure Marc Savard isn't having a good time waking up puking every morning. Likwise for guys like Pelech and PL3. I don't think they have it all bad as players with their wonderful salaries and all, but they also sacrifice a lot.
When I say dream job I don't mean no work big reward I mean millions of kids grow up dreaming about playing in the nhl. Teams like Edmonton seem to not have a problem signing their first overalls .

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06-07-2012, 09:12 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by MarkGio View Post
At first I felt this way, but then I realized that teams shouldn't get to "own" kids in order to let them play in the NHL and have their own careers.

There should be risks to drafting; it's what makes the game dynamic and interesting. If one route was risk free, then every team would take that route and there would be no alternative ways to win.

A team should be able to control some aspect of that player, since they drafted him. It's not fair to the team if the player they drafted just left the organization since the team is bad. A player can choose the amount of money he wants in a contract (or has a big say), so I don't see how they would be treated as "slaves".

A player can always ask for a trade if he doesn't like the team, but the team has a right to deny it. It's just part of the game.

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06-07-2012, 09:14 AM
  #37
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A team should be able to control some aspect of that player, since they drafted him. It's not fair to the team if the player they drafted just left the organization since the team is bad.
This basically never happens since if the team is bad the kid gets a big role. The team has 2 years to sign him before he goes back into the draft(if he is from the chl). If they can't sign him or trade is rights in two years how much longer should they have?

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06-07-2012, 09:41 AM
  #38
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If I'm not mistaken I think the NBA has pre-set contracts for newly drafted players, perhaps this is the way to go. It eliminates the Erixon's and Schultz's from the fold and protects the teams and it protects the players by guaranteeing them a contract, because lets be honest there is more situations like Leach where the team doesn't offer a deal than there is players who just don't sign.

I think this would have to result in the 50 contract limit being altered as well. IMO they would have to change it up so that a team is allowed 'X' number of ELC's and 'X' number of "veteran" contracts.
I'd be totally fine with that. The NBA has the problem of small market teams losing their big players after ELC's expire, but when you look at a team OKC that drafts properly they at least have the chance of building a winning team through drafting. Also, small market teams aren't exactly a major problem in the NHL. I would say the Jackets are the only team that have trouble holding onto their players.

Bettman is obviously a product of the NBA, hopefully he looks at something like this. While this issue is fairly uncommon, it has been increasing in frequency and I would be in favor of a model like this, because as you say it protects the teams and players once drafted.

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06-07-2012, 09:47 AM
  #39
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Why should they? Honest question.
I get what you are saying and you are arguing the other side of the coin. But IMO the problem lies in that when drafted players have to much power in where they want to play, it creates major problems for franchises. Its more than just, "I don't want to play there", because it has a large trickle down effect on that respective organization. What happens is franchises start getting negative stigma's attached to them that they are poor places to play. If a team can't retain the high end talent they draft, they are going to have a less talented roster as a result. Which when you factor that, along with the PR issues associated with not being able to sign your draft picks, it gives that team a much harder time to attract high profile FA's down the road.

I think a player needs to earn their time in the NHL, and earn the right to go to being a UFA or at least RFA status where they have more control in where they want to play in the NHL.

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06-07-2012, 11:18 AM
  #40
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I get what you are saying and you are arguing the other side of the coin. But IMO the problem lies in that when drafted players have to much power in where they want to play, it creates major problems for franchises. Its more than just, "I don't want to play there", because it has a large trickle down effect on that respective organization. What happens is franchises start getting negative stigma's attached to them that they are poor places to play. If a team can't retain the high end talent they draft, they are going to have a less talented roster as a result. Which when you factor that, along with the PR issues associated with not being able to sign your draft picks, it gives that team a much harder time to attract high profile FA's down the road.

I think a player needs to earn their time in the NHL, and earn the right to go to being a UFA or at least RFA status where they have more control in where they want to play in the NHL.
I agree with the last point especially. Just because they were drafted doesn't mean they have gained the right of where to go automatically.

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06-07-2012, 11:23 AM
  #41
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I agree with the last point especially. Just because they were drafted doesn't mean they have gained the right of where to go automatically.
Same thing happens in the real world. Lots of private sector workers have probabtion periods when first starting out in a specific career. Your rights grow over time, and you can command more leverage in contract negotiations with more experience.

I agree with MVW.

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06-07-2012, 12:18 PM
  #42
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Avs re-upped Hunwick and Jones today

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06-07-2012, 12:42 PM
  #43
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Avs re-upped Hunwick and Jones today
FML Jones getting 4 million per...lookout.

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06-07-2012, 12:51 PM
  #44
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Same thing happens in the real world. Lots of private sector workers have probabtion periods when first starting out in a specific career. Your rights grow over time, and you can command more leverage in contract negotiations with more experience.

I agree with MVW.
Apples and Oranges. A worker can leave at any point, probationary period or not. The probationary period, in Alberta anyways, allows the employer to terminate an employee without just cause, and therefore not have to pay out severence. Very very few companies risk contractual agreements, and most contracts are geared so the employer can opt out whenever possible.

The NHL is like a bad economy. There's really nowhere else to get a job except to work for the person who hired you. I look at playing in the NHL like a 16yr old making 22 bucks an hour working in Prince George, B.C. If you have a good boss, there's not a lot to complain about because there's a 100 thous of teenagers willing to take your job from you.

There's a reason a player doesn't pull these stunts very often; if nobody will hires them, they're screwed. Take Ludwig Rensfeldt for example. Who's going to draft this guy? If he wants to bury himself, then so be it.

And then there's the comparison of the NBA and their problems. Where players jump ship to go to New York, L.A, Boston, and a few others, leaving teams like Washington, Charlotte, New Orleans, Cleavland and Sacramento in the dust. Well New Orleans and Cleavland were recently a big team, but couldn't build their teams right. Sacramento was a team back in the day too. If you don't build properly, don't blame the players for not wanting a better job. Private companies have problems keeping workers too. That's the real nature of things.

Like Glen was saying, it doesn't happen too often. I wonder myself why any player would want to play for the Flames and **** when the fans are so quick to run them off. And now the fans think they should be slaves and earn their time to the NHL. They do earn it. They've sacrificed a lot to to get to the highest level and they deserve some rights.

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06-07-2012, 12:53 PM
  #45
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FML Jones getting 4 million per...lookout.
Matt Stajan @ 3.5 keeps looking less like a bad contract lol

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06-07-2012, 02:10 PM
  #46
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Apples and Oranges. A worker can leave at any point, probationary period or not. The probationary period, in Alberta anyways, allows the employer to terminate an employee without just cause, and therefore not have to pay out severence. Very very few companies risk contractual agreements, and most contracts are geared so the employer can opt out whenever possible.

The NHL is like a bad economy. There's really nowhere else to get a job except to work for the person who hired you. I look at playing in the NHL like a 16yr old making 22 bucks an hour working in Prince George, B.C. If you have a good boss, there's not a lot to complain about because there's a 100 thous of teenagers willing to take your job from you.

There's a reason a player doesn't pull these stunts very often; if nobody will hires them, they're screwed. Take Ludwig Rensfeldt for example. Who's going to draft this guy? If he wants to bury himself, then so be it.

And then there's the comparison of the NBA and their problems. Where players jump ship to go to New York, L.A, Boston, and a few others, leaving teams like Washington, Charlotte, New Orleans, Cleavland and Sacramento in the dust. Well New Orleans and Cleavland were recently a big team, but couldn't build their teams right. Sacramento was a team back in the day too. If you don't build properly, don't blame the players for not wanting a better job. Private companies have problems keeping workers too. That's the real nature of things.

Like Glen was saying, it doesn't happen too often. I wonder myself why any player would want to play for the Flames and **** when the fans are so quick to run them off. And now the fans think they should be slaves and earn their time to the NHL. They do earn it. They've sacrificed a lot to to get to the highest level and they deserve some rights.
I just don't agree with you, what you are suggesting creates an entitelment mindset.

These players work hard to get to where they are, but so does everybody else in the real world. Doesn't mean I can step out of school with a hard earned undergrad and decided exactly who I work for, how much I will make, benefits, etc...

These kids should feel greatful to get drafted by any team and be proud of the fact that a team deems them worthy enough to join their club. If you do not like your current situation, then shut up, pay your dues, and when the time comes you can re-negotiate.

It's not like ELCs earn chump change for their dedication to hockey. The draft should be about all teams getting a fair crack at solid talent coming into the league. Not about where some little brat wants to play because his daddy played there.

Fans are fans. If you are a professional athelete then part of your job requires that you have to deal with fans, the good and the bad.

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06-07-2012, 02:25 PM
  #47
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FML Jones getting 4 million per...lookout.
Avs needed to reach the cap floor somehow. It's high, but not necessarily indicative of what's to come.

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06-07-2012, 02:34 PM
  #48
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Avs needed to reach the cap floor somehow. It's high, but not necessarily indicative of what's to come.
hopefully. All I know is that I cringed when I saw that.

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06-07-2012, 02:34 PM
  #49
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I just don't agree with you, what you are suggesting creates an entitelment mindset.

These players work hard to get to where they are, but so does everybody else in the real world. Doesn't mean I can step out of school with a hard earned undergrad and decided exactly who I work for, how much I will make, benefits, etc...

These kids should feel greatful to get drafted by any team and be proud of the fact that a team deems them worthy enough to join their club. If you do not like your current situation, then shut up, pay your dues, and when the time comes you can re-negotiate.

It's not like ELCs earn chump change for their dedication to hockey. The draft should be about all teams getting a fair crack at solid talent coming into the league. Not about where some little brat wants to play because his daddy played there.

Fans are fans. If you are a professional athelete then part of your job requires that you have to deal with fans, the good and the bad.
So if you working at a job where you're being diddled by your coach (eg. Fluery), you should shut up and pay your dues? Where do situations like those fall into your theory?

And you can step out school and do all that stuff if you want. Hell I've seen guys lie on their resume and got jobs typically given to people 3 times as qualified. Anyways, some "brat" hockey player is going to have a hard career because there's only 29 other jobs, and there's a million people who would lie, cheat and steal to have that job. I wouldn't concern myself with such things.

I'm for the ELC because it's good for the game (handicaps). But there should be challenging loopholes to allow players to be free to decide their own career. It's like parents who decide the careers, spouses, and values for their children and then get mad at our society and laws because their children became gay, athiest janitors. Everybody should have choice, and a good organization should foster players to stay, not depend on the rules.

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06-07-2012, 02:42 PM
  #50
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So if you working at a job where you're being diddled by your coach (eg. Fluery), you should shut up and pay your dues? Where do situations like those fall into your theory?
And you can step out school and do all that stuff if you want. Hell I've seen guys lie on their resume and got jobs typically given to people 3 times as qualified. Anyways, some "brat" hockey player is going to have a hard career because there's only 29 other jobs, and there's a million people who would lie, cheat and steal to have that job. I wouldn't concern myself with such things.

I'm for the ELC because it's good for the game (handicaps). But there should be challenging loopholes to allow players to be free to decide their own career. It's like parents who decide the careers, spouses, and values for their children and then get mad at our society and laws because their children became gay, athiest janitors. Everybody should have choice, and a good organization should foster players to stay, not depend on the rules.
Yeah that is exactly what I had in mind C'mon man.

As for the Athiest comment, I'm Athiest, and would find that offensive...but I'm not a religious bigot

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