At the very least, can we not place some value on one of the very few players committed to this team for a longer term?
And we're not talking about just any rank and file player either, it's a slick puck moving offensive defensemen, an all-star who is the one who actually WANTS to be here and proved it by signing on the dotted line for 5 years! Trading him would be idiotic.
Keep in mind this is BUX7PHX we're dealing with here. I'm convinced Yandle slept with his girlfriend or something because dude has been blaring the trade Yandle horn for months now. Thankfully it falls on def ears.
I understand points are not the most important thing for a defenseman, but for a team like the Coyotes that relies so heavily on counterattacks and a transitional game, defensemen who can move the puck up ice (whether by passing or puckhandling) are supremely important. Yandle is thus far the best player on the team at this.
Could OEL be better as soon as next season? Sure. He looked great in the playoffs. But I'm not ready to crown him the #1 yet. Remember how good Turris looked in last season's playoffs?
Sample size. Sample size. Sample size.
Let's also consider how many of these guys are on ELCs. We've seen a few guys strongarm Maloney into trading them already. Who's to say OEL or someone else won't pull the same garbage? At the very least, can we not place some value on one of the very few players committed to this team for a longer term?
I am ready to anoint OEL our #1 based just on his regular season play. The sample size is there.
And we're not talking about just any rank and file player either, it's a slick puck moving offensive defensemen, an all-star who is the one who actually WANTS to be here and proved it by signing on the dotted line for 5 years! Trading him would be idiotic.
Keep in mind this is BUX7PHX we're dealing with here. I'm convinced Yandle slept with his girlfriend or something because dude has been blaring the trade Yandle horn for months now. Thankfully it falls on def ears.
I'm in the same camp as Bux7phx. I just think the return has to be the right piece. It seems that everyone is concerned about the time left on Staal's deal before he is a UFA. You don't make this type of deal unless you have some reassurance on asking price by Staal and his agent and his willingness to move to Phoenix. That type of due diligence will be done. If that red flag is removed do opinions change?
Staal for Yandle in the WCF doesn't beat the kings.
The Coyotes had a great run and it was commendable, but they have some serious deficiencies which make it a run not likely to be repeated. Career years from aging players, some breakout playoff performances, and Smith playing out of his mind. The odds of just one of those things happening again next season isn't so hot.
We will never know if we could have beat them with staal. What we can say is that we definitely did not beat them with yandle.
The teams that reach that next level are the teams willing to pay value to get what they need. the kings gave up quite a bit fir richards and carter but if they win it will be the first time in the franchise and worth it. If the Devils come back and win it will be because of guys like Kovalchuk they went out and paid the price for. I agree its unlikely things will ome together the way they did last year with the roster. That would seem to be even more of a reason to make a move for me.
And to say Staal just isnt that good would be like saying Hanzal is a border line NHL player who only scored 8 goals this year. Staal is good player and would have a huge impact on this team. The contract issue is a serious concern but I dont see any other reason.
If we are going to trade Yandle, then trading with Edmonton would make better sense if we can get at minimum back, Ryan Nugent Hopkins going the other way.
I don't see that happening and I would rather we keep him and I don't see any reason why he won't get any better seeing that his whole hockey career has been about meeting and exceeding expectations since his was picked in the 4th round. The best was for Yandle to lose a spot on the team(which I don't see happening) is to have others in the system beat him out of one and our system is great at weeding the bad from the good.
Staal for Yandle in the WCF doesn't beat the kings.
The Coyotes had a great run and it was commendable, but they have some serious deficiencies which make it a run not likely to be repeated. Career years from aging players, some breakout playoff performances, and Smith playing out of his mind. The odds of just one of those things happening again next season isn't so hot.
And if we are going to go the route of "when was the last time X won the cup", when was the last time a team with no owner in the bottom 1/3rd of spending won the cup?
Staal just isn't that good either. Sure he'd instantly be number one on this team but so would a lot of centers. Toss in the fact that Staal's deal expires and its just insane and terrible asset management.
Not untouchable, but worth more than Staal. Adding random crap picks that won't be a factor till 2015 or roster players won't even it either.
Great question there and chances are we don't even get past the 1st round this season if the Blackhawks this season were the team that won the cup in 2010. Even with that deplected team they have going into the playoffs with 5 games heading into OT and 4 of those where the Coyotes played like **** in the 3rd, those games and this series could have went either way. Hell, as good as Boedker has been in the playoffs, his 2 OT goals came as a result of how ****** Crawford was in OT. If the Coyotes did get into Round 2, if the Preds did live up to the hype of being a better team than the season before then chances are that series would have gone the distance.
Coyotes need a owner more than ever if they are going to have a chance at getting back to the WCF let alone getting into the playoffs.
Turris was on the team looking for a way out. OEL is on the team bc he deserves the minutes that he is getting. Name a player under the age of 21 that logged that many minutes in the playoffs (besting Yandle, on average, by 4 minutes per game.
This time last year, everybody here was singing Turris's praises and ready to assume he'd break out this year. No one had a clue he was trying to leave. OEL had a great playoff run, and a very, very good regular season for a player his age. But Yandle is the more proven player.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BUX7PHX
If OEL is projecting to be a guy who can't live up to Yandle's accomplishments, then our entire coaching staff should also go, as they are the ones who are running him out there ahead of Yandle.
Again, this was for what, 16 games?
Anyway, you're missing my point. Let's say OEL really is better than Yandle already. That's entirely possible. Then what? He's only playing, at most, 24 minutes a night in the regular season, right? Why hamstring yourself for the other 36? Do you really want to go into next season looking like this on the back end:
OEL-Morris
Klesla-Schlemko
Rundblad-Summers
And then what happens when Klesla inevitably gets hurt?
Quote:
Originally Posted by BUX7PHX
Plus, OEL is more physical in a good way. Yandle's examples of physicality include punching two players after the refs have pretty much brought order to the situation. Then, when the refs aren't able to diffuse the situation, Keith turtles given the opportunity to stand up for himself. Don't kid anyone, Yandle has talent, but he is not an asset that deserves to be in the untouchable realm.
Never said he was untouchable. Just don't think Staal is enough.
I think that you mean "plethora". I disagreee with your assertion that they are short on NHL defensemen. A number of prospects appear to be NHL ready or nearly ready in my eyes.
Yeah, I got distracted and put the wrong word. Thanks for catching that and correcting.
I find this argument of players who have played in the NHL as being "NHL players" but I disagree with the assertion. It's really just a difference of definitions, but when I talk about a NHL player I am talking about someone that can play a regular shift for nearly 70-80 games a year. A guy that gets a cup of coffee is not a NHL regular...I guess that I what I should say instead.
Our defense is shallow with NHL regulars, but I will agree that the boys looked good off the farm last year and could be trusted with an extended call-up to see how they last during the season. Yandle, Klesla, OEL, Morris and Schlemko are the only NHL regulars in the lineup on the blueline. That looks fine as is, but how does a top 4 without Yandle, Klesla, or OEL look? Not what I want in my team. The defense is building and getting stronger.
You don't move pieces out until there is someone ready to take that spot. As it is now we have a top 4 of Yandle, Klesla, OEL and Morris. If you are moving any of those 4 guys you are doing so with the expectation that someone can come in and assume a top 4 role. At this point I have not seen that in Summers, Stone, Gormley or Rundblad. Typically you will see that for a good part of a season before a move is made. This is similar to how when Maloney traded Upshall he said that Boedker's play made it possible to make that move. It may have been a bit premature, but I'd do that deal for Klesla every day of the week and twice on Saturday.
What's more likely is that one of Summers, Stone, Gormley or Rundblad will show their worth in 2012-2013 and it will spell the end of Derek Morris in 2013-2014 (if there is a taker).
Last year it was Yandle to the Bruins, this year its Yandle for Staal. He won't move, Yandle is too valuable to this team. Sure this year wasn't as big as last years but Yandle was dealing with fatherhood for the first time this season. He just needs to adjust to it.
A few weeks back on Home Ice, the topic was our Dmen. And we're set to have the some of the most solid D in the NHL and will be top dogs given a few seasons in that department.
I'm in the same camp as Bux7phx. I just think the return has to be the right piece. It seems that everyone is concerned about the time left on Staal's deal before he is a UFA. You don't make this type of deal unless you have some reassurance on asking price by Staal and his agent and his willingness to move to Phoenix. That type of due diligence will be done. If that red flag is removed do opinions change?
Can you really call it a camp when there's only 2-3 people in it?
Anyway, remove the red flag and no my opinion does not change at all.
Last year it was Yandle to the Bruins, this year its Yandle for Staal. He won't move, Yandle is too valuable to this team. Sure this year wasn't as big as last years but Yandle was dealing with fatherhood for the first time this season. He just needs to adjust to it.
A few weeks back on Home Ice, the topic was our Dmen. And we're set to have the some of the most solid D in the NHL and will be top dogs given a few seasons in that department.
Not to mention Yandle's "down season" still placed him 14 overall in points for defensemen despite averaging less time than every single player ahead of him.
Keep in mind how hard it is to get a top line center - just ask Brian Burke. D-Men, even great ones, are more of a commodity.
Perfect example...
The Kings traded Jack Johnson for a hurt, bad in the dressing room, overpaid, underperforming, cap-heavy Jeff Carter.
A case could be made that Jack Johnson is on par with Yandle. Jordan Staal, on the other hand, is a much better acquisition than Jeff Carter.
And while the Kings are about to win the Cup, when that trade was announced, their fans screamed bloody murder.
I guess I can see both sides but I still feel Yandle is more valuable not just on the ice but in the locker room. He loves playing here, loves the guys he plays with and proud to wear the 'A' and it shows both on ice and off.
I guess I can see both sides but I still feel Yandle is more valuable not just on the ice but in the locker room. He loves playing here, loves the guys he plays with and proud to wear the 'A' and it shows both on ice and off.
That's fair.
However, a(n albeit weak) case could be made that the Coyotes were a Top Line Center away from the Stanley Cup. Unfortunately, as I said before, they are next to impossible to find, the Yotes don't have the cash to get one as a free agent and the upcoming draft is p!ss poor (and D-heavy). Trading Yandle may be the ONLY way you get one.
Also, don’t let Jordan Staal’s 3rd line status fool you. He is getting mentioned for Team Canada in Sochi/2014 – as the 13th forward.
Given the incredible depth of Team Canada up front, that speaks volumes.
JJ was the Captain for the US team at this year's World Championship. He will be on the Olympic team in 2014 - likely as an Assistant Captain. Johnson is also younger and (I believe) cheaper - contract and cap.
Now... Please explain why Yandle is at a (much) higher level than Jack Johnson.
I don't think Yandle played like he was entitled. I think it was quite the opposite. I think he played like he was trying way too damn hard to live up to that fat contract. This gave way to blunders which killed his confidence which gave way to even more blunders. As soon as he gets his head screwed back on straight, he will be back to his old dynamic self.
There are two ways that people can react with an entitled attitude. Turris did the exact opposite as Yandle. He sulked, and was sent packing.
By signing the big contract, you get the feeling that Yandle bought into his own hype a little much. Hence, the trying too hard, as he felt entitled that over the course of time, a player like himself would be the beneficiary of good calls, ice time in the most crucial moments, and a belief that he could do a lot more beyond what he is capable of. That was why there were tons of diving poke-checks, when it was him being out of position in the first place that caused those plays. Same thing as when he punched Hagman (? - all I remember is it was a game against Calgary) near the boards when the ref had pretty much separated them. Does the same thing against LA and gets called for roughing. Maybe entitlement was a poor choice of words - arrogance to a degree might be better.
As far as locker room guys go - yes, Yandle might be a great locker room guy. Weren't Richards and Carter good locker room guys who just partied a little much for PHL management's style? That didn't prevent them from getting moved.
Short term, moving Yandle might not be great. But long term, you now open up some salary cap room to get OEL extended, and Gormley as he hits his stride in the next 2 years. Stone and Summers have proven they are capable of playing in the league. We know Klesla can pair with OEL. That still leaves Schlemko, Morris, Rundblad, and Murphy in the short to intermediate future, and if we did trade Yandle, we would not stand pat, and likely sign another D-man to complement the top 6. rt has mentioned many names that are quality D-men that would not sacrifice as many points as people would think.
JJ was the Captain for the US team at this year's World Championship. He will be on the Olympic team in 2014 - likely as an Assistant Captain. Johnson is also younger and (I believe) cheaper - contract and cap.
Now... Please explain why Yandle is at a (much) higher level than Jack Johnson.
You do realize we're talking about the NHL here, not Team USA? Don't get me wrong, I like JJ and think he has a chance to flourish in Columbus but right now his numbers in the NHL, which are all I care about, are not on par with Yandle. There is a reason Yandle is a 2 time all-star and JJ is a zero time all-star. Oh and yes JJ is younger...by 4 months.
And to say Staal just isnt that good would be like saying Hanzal is a border line NHL player who only scored 8 goals this year. Staal is good player and would have a huge impact on this team. The contract issue is a serious concern but I dont see any other reason.
I don't think Staal is worth Yandle straight up and the mixed bag of crap we'd get as a throw in isn't enough to add it up because we'd still be bringing back the lesser player.
Yandle was too good in 2010-2011 and still pretty elite in 11-12 to be dumping him for a center who isn't a top 30 center in the game.
The Richards/Carter/Kovalchuk deals were bringing the better player back to the team in the totality of the deal. That is the kind of deal you make when looking to win and aren't similar at all to this deal. I'd rather trade Yandle + for a center better than Staal, and if one isn't available keep Yandle. Though I'd probably keep Yandle anyway because I agree with Pho that the Coyotes really are not stacked on the back end yet.
Had a quick look at Jack Johnson's stats and he's a shocking -85 over his career.
Not a big fan of his character either since I saw him play as a collegiate player. He would literally take the puck off his teammates on a regular basis.
