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Tampa to trade for Jonathan Bernier?

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Old
06-07-2012, 11:37 PM
  #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martyros View Post
That's too much. If that gets thrown onto Lombardi's table, he'll take it.
Oh... probably more involved from LA's side. I was in a hurry and didn't compose a very complete thought.

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06-07-2012, 11:38 PM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingCanadain1976 View Post
Fair enuff i didnt get it quite right the point i was trying to make is he wasnt nhl ready where bernier is. So imo bernier is worth more then just connelly. I would be ok with the muzzin and bernier for connelly and 19th. I would somehow like to get the 10 th pick thou. ŤAs i continuely say i want to try and use it to move up to get forsberg who is the lw propect the kings need.
I feel ya but the 10th seems off the table given Connolly is in the mix. Don't hate you for trying tho.

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Originally Posted by stryfe604 View Post
Mhhm. Connolly for Bernier is a fair trade straight up, putting Muzzin and the first in the trade is because it makes extra sense. If LA doesn't want to do Connolly for Bernier straight up how about a 2 seconds for Muzzin
Mostly fair. It really pans out to how you project Connolly. If he really is that "will pan out to be a 35-35+ guy every year, then yeah. Based on what I saw in junior I really think Connolly could reach that.

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06-07-2012, 11:41 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by New Liskeard View Post
Halak has proved much more at the NHL level than Bernier has. Not a fair or correct assesment. Until Bernier has a performance like Halak had, especially in the playoffs; the value is not the same.
That was his point. Halak, a much more proven goaltender returned a (questionably) blue chip prospect in Eller (=Connolly in this deal) and a 4th liner in Schultz. Pick 19 has higher value.

He's saying people may be a bit disappointed with the return for Bernier if they're expecting something insane.

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06-07-2012, 11:41 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingCanadain1976 View Post
Fair enuff i didnt get it quite right the point i was trying to make is he wasnt nhl ready where bernier is. So imo bernier is worth more then just connelly. I would be ok with the muzzin and bernier for connelly and 19th. I would somehow like to get the 10 th pick thou. ŤAs i continuely say i want to try and use it to move up to get forsberg who is the lw propect the kings need.
10th would require Forbort.

Bernier, Forbort, Muzzin

for

Connolly, 10th, 40th,

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06-07-2012, 11:43 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chojin View Post
Remember guys, Halak was traded for a blue-chip forward prospect (Lars Eller) and a potential 4th liner (Ian Schultz), and Halak proved a hell of a lot more than Bernier has.
Except Montreal had to pick either Halak or Price to invest in that off-season. LA doesn't have a Bernier-or-Quick situation on its hands right now. Halak was more proven, but he was also in a "to the highest bidder" situation, while LA can sit on Bernier.

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06-07-2012, 11:44 PM
  #56
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[QUOTE=Still All In;50651731]I feel ya but the 10th seems off the table given Connolly is in the mix. Don't hate you for trying tho.



so let me get this right you would be willing to go 10 and 19th for bernier and muzzin

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06-07-2012, 11:48 PM
  #57
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[QUOTE=KingCanadain1976;50651909]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Still All In View Post
I feel ya but the 10th seems off the table given Connolly is in the mix. Don't hate you for trying tho.



so let me get this right you would be willing to go 10 and 19th for bernier and muzzin
No, he is trying to say 10th won't work in that trade at all.

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06-07-2012, 11:48 PM
  #58
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I would guess either Connolly OR the 10th pick would be the main piece going back(and most likely be a 1 for 1 deal)

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06-07-2012, 11:49 PM
  #59
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I dont see him spending more than the 19th and a 2nd for him. LA doesnt have a pick in either of those rounds so those could help them keep the pipeline moving.

If anything maybe adding in a borderline prospect, mid level, or one of our lower line guys like Tyrell or the such.

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06-07-2012, 11:49 PM
  #60
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[QUOTE=KingCanadain1976;50651909]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Still All In View Post
I feel ya but the 10th seems off the table given Connolly is in the mix. Don't hate you for trying tho.



so let me get this right you would be willing to go 10 and 19th for bernier and muzzin
Never said that, said it wouldn't be Connolly +10th.

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06-07-2012, 11:49 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boredmale View Post
I would guess either Connolly OR the 10th pick would be the main piece going back(and most likely be a 1 for 1 deal)
Not sure you can pry the 10th out of Yzerman. He's undoubtedly going to try to move Detroit's first instead of ours.

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06-07-2012, 11:50 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boredmale View Post
I would guess either Connolly OR the 10th pick would be the main piece going back(and most likely be a 1 for 1 deal)
Would be borderline retarded to send the 10th for Bernier straight up. We need the Dman that we can draft at that spot more than Bernier.

Im just so damn hesitant on spending anything of much value for yet another "cross your fingers and hope to god it works out" goaltenders. Its gotten pretty old pretty quick.

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06-07-2012, 11:52 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IdealisticSniper View Post
I dont see him spending more than the 19th and a 2nd for him. LA doesnt have a pick in either of those rounds so those could help them keep the pipeline moving.
Actually Columbus has the right to choose to use LA's pick either this year or next and given the kings are picking 29th(assuming NJ forfeits the pick, they will end up their win or lose the cup) I see them holding off for a year

Quote:
Originally Posted by IdealisticSniper View Post
Would be borderline retarded to send the 10th for Bernier straight up. We need the Dman that we can draft at that spot more than Bernier.
I think Varlamov sort of set the bar for what an unproven starting goalie who has potential could get(he was traded for a first which ended up 11th + 2nd). I would think Bernier has higher value then Varlamov

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06-07-2012, 11:55 PM
  #64
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[QUOTE=Still All In;50652025]
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingCanadain1976 View Post

Never said that, said it wouldn't be Connolly +10th.
lol fair enuff just me hoping i cant blame u for holding the pick.

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06-07-2012, 11:56 PM
  #65
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Great, like LA needs to get any stronger...

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06-08-2012, 12:00 AM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IdealisticSniper View Post
Would be borderline retarded to send the 10th for Bernier straight up. We need the Dman that we can draft at that spot more than Bernier.

Im just so damn hesitant on spending anything of much value for yet another "cross your fingers and hope to god it works out" goaltenders. Its gotten pretty old pretty quick.
I never said straight up i would expect to add. I have in other propsals added alec martinez who is a top 4 defenseman stuck behind voynov and drew doughty so aint going to get them minutes. Making the deal bernier martinez and muzzin for conelly 10 and 19th

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06-08-2012, 12:01 AM
  #67
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It makes tons of sense. No need for him to sit on LA's bench, and they can improve there lineup with what will surely be a good return.

Teams I could see making a move for Bernier - What they could give up

Tampa - 10th overall
Chicago - Saad or McNiell +
Islanders - Poulin/Nilsson (to backup Quick) + Grabner? maybe add a pick?
Columbus - Tyutin? Picks?
Toronto - Schenn or Kadri
Edmonton - MSP or Lander + a pick?

Not sure which of these Kings fans would do but maybe they'll be in a giving mood since they're gonna win the cup this weekend

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06-08-2012, 12:03 AM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boredmale View Post
Actually Columbus has the right to choose to use LA's pick either this year or next and given the kings are picking 29th(assuming NJ forfeits the pick, they will end up their win or lose the cup) I see them holding off for a year



I think Varlamov sort of set the bar for what an unproven starting goalie who has potential could get(he was traded for a first which ended up 11th + 2nd). I would think Bernier has higher value then Varlamov

Valramov had proven more than Bernier behind a less than stellar defense at that point. Not much more mind you, but more nonetheless.

On top of that, the situations were a bit different as well. IMO even if you consider that cost setting the bar, it was a 1st+2nd without either team knowing where they would end up. Could have easily been in the 20s as it was where it ended up. Caps got lucky. Knowing exactly where the pick is when you trade for it kind of takes away the gamble for it but also makes it more of a certainty what type of value you are getting back.

Having said that, I would say that if you want to use that trade as the bar, sending the 19th + our 2nd would be about the same value wise.

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06-08-2012, 12:03 AM
  #69
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How does Bernier have more value than Varlamov someone explain that to me.

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06-08-2012, 12:05 AM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boredmale View Post
I think Varlamov sort of set the bar for what an unproven starting goalie who has potential could get(he was traded for a first which ended up 11th + 2nd). I would think Bernier has higher value then Varlamov
And it was a bad deal for the Avalanche then and turned into a worse deal by seasons end. Varlamov was also a starter for the Caps in high pressure situations, Bernier is still unproven in that regard.

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06-08-2012, 12:05 AM
  #71
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Originally Posted by KingCanadain1976 View Post
I never said straight up i would expect to add. I have in other propsals added alec martinez who is a top 4 defenseman stuck behind voynov and drew doughty so aint going to get them minutes. Making the deal bernier martinez and muzzin for conelly 10 and 19th
Thats a horrible trade for TB IMO. Martinez is solid but hes not really anything special. He would be a 3-4 guy which is great but he reminds a lot of a Nolan Pratt type. Just a solid guy who you dont notice for many good or bad reasons. You want a 6th overall, a 10th overall and a 19th overall. Thats a lot of value there. Bernier might be worth one of them. Martinez isnt. And Muzzin isnt.

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06-08-2012, 12:06 AM
  #72
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Originally Posted by BarberioTheBarbarian View Post
How does Bernier have more value than Varlamov someone explain that to me.
He doesnt.

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06-08-2012, 12:07 AM
  #73
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Muzzin is an ok bottom pairing defender, but what we need is a minute eater to take pressure off of Hedman and Brewer, which was quite clear last season.

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06-08-2012, 12:10 AM
  #74
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Originally Posted by IdealisticSniper View Post
Valramov had proven more than Bernier behind a less than stellar defense at that point. Not much more mind you, but more nonetheless.

On top of that, the situations were a bit different as well. IMO even if you consider that cost setting the bar, it was a 1st+2nd without either team knowing where they would end up. Could have easily been in the 20s as it was where it ended up. Caps got lucky. Knowing exactly where the pick is when you trade for it kind of takes away the gamble for it but also makes it more of a certainty what type of value you are getting back.
The AVs could have been a playoff team, but common logic says they most likely wouldn't make it(meaning it would be top 14) with a shot of it being a top 5 pick(given a repeat performance from the previous season). All in all 10 is roughly the value I would have given the pick last summer without having a clue where it would end up(ie it could be better or worse)

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06-08-2012, 12:12 AM
  #75
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Originally Posted by boredmale View Post
The AVs could have been a playoff team, but common logic says they most likely wouldn't make it(meaning it would be top 14) with a shot of it being a top 5 pick(given a repeat performance from the previous season). All in all 10 is roughly the value I would have given the pick last summer without having a clue where it would end up(ie it could be better or worse)
So what youre saying is, no one, yourself included, had any real idea where that pick would end up.

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