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Rangers interested in Justin Schultz as a free agent

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Old
06-07-2012, 04:27 PM
  #901
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I was extremely disappointed the way mdz played in the last two games of the devils series. And I also thought throughout the playoffs and even the season, his offensive game just wasnt that much of an impact. He had spurts of brilliance and plays that made you get out of your seat but there were times where he just looked awful on the PP and he was supposed to benefit from Brad Richards playing on the point with him. He made poor decisions with the puck imo.

Having said all that, you guys are absolutely crazy to be so quick to trade the kid. He his still so young, he has good speed and ability. He can move the puck well. Trading him would be a mistake. I'd rather add Schultz, hold onto DZ, and have a strong 6 defenders than to trade him for a sniper. And yes I know we need more offense but there are other ways to do it. Parise is out there. But we may not get him. Radulov is out there but he may not sign. Or you can trade Anisimov or Dubinsky as part of a package to add another scoring forward. But even so worse case scenario is you go for Alex Semin. And I'm not even a fan of Semin. Don't like the way he plays at times. BUT I'd rather hold onto our defense albeit a YOUNG one, and find a forward another way.

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06-07-2012, 04:48 PM
  #902
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Players with the tools Del Zotto has are rare. His improvement this past season was tremendous. People can critique his defense all they want, but the fact remains his play was much, much better. That combined with his age tells me that you hold onto him unless someone really pushes a lot of chips across the table.

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06-07-2012, 04:59 PM
  #903
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Originally Posted by bogans View Post
To be fair, I really think it is McDonagh who took DZ's spot if he were to get traded. The guy has offense that is yet to be seen and has the same lefty shot that DZ owns. DZ is clearly a second pairing D-man in this league and a PP QB. Problem is I think McDonagh is a first pairing D-man in this league and a PP QB who will play on the second pair due to Marc Staal being a freak of defense. DZ either plays on his off wing where he is totally ineffective on offense and especially defense or he plays on the third pair and is a waste of talent. I want them to be deep and like DZ as a Ranger, but its kind of silly to NOT trade the guy based upon what he can probably bring back in return.

With either Schultz (if Sather gets him, which he should) or Erixon primed to take the second line RD spot and provide a righty shot from the point on the PP, the Rangers have got their top 4 future defense lined up. The rest will be filled in with some combination of McIlrath (who really could provide something none of the other guys do and a physical specimen), Erixon/Schultz, free agent/Bickel/Stralman/Eminger.

I absolutely loved the New York Rangers of 1991-1992, my favorite team of all-time, but I don't think they would've won the cup without trading Turcotte, Amonte, Weight, Patrick, and others who I wanted to be Rangers their entire careers. By the same token, turn Dubi and DZ into a Bobby Ryan (my first choice) and it goes a long way towards transforming this team into a team that not only COULD win, but SHOULD win. Hopefully Slats gets that, I think he does.
Awesome post.

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06-07-2012, 06:53 PM
  #904
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It's interesting to me. I don't pretend to know nearly as much as some of you about players and their abilities. I'll be the first to admit that I rely heavily on the coaching and scouting staff of the New York Rangers.

It's just interesting to me that many folks here have Del Zotto being easily replaced by one guy (Erixon) who is not considered ready yet. And another (Schultz) who has not been signed, evaluated or even played a single NHL game.

I'm sure that at some point both of these guys will make fine NHLers. The attitude towards Del Zotto is to me....a bit too cavalier. I'm of the mind that we should be extremely cautious in considering any deals that involve Del Zotto.

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06-07-2012, 06:53 PM
  #905
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RGY View Post
I was extremely disappointed the way mdz played in the last two games of the devils series. And I also thought throughout the playoffs and even the season, his offensive game just wasnt that much of an impact. He had spurts of brilliance and plays that made you get out of your seat but there were times where he just looked awful on the PP and he was supposed to benefit from Brad Richards playing on the point with him. He made poor decisions with the puck imo.

Having said all that, you guys are absolutely crazy to be so quick to trade the kid. He his still so young, he has good speed and ability. He can move the puck well. Trading him would be a mistake. I'd rather add Schultz, hold onto DZ, and have a strong 6 defenders than to trade him for a sniper. And yes I know we need more offense but there are other ways to do it. Parise is out there. But we may not get him. Radulov is out there but he may not sign. Or you can trade Anisimov or Dubinsky as part of a package to add another scoring forward. But even so worse case scenario is you go for Alex Semin. And I'm not even a fan of Semin. Don't like the way he plays at times. BUT I'd rather hold onto our defense albeit a YOUNG one, and find a forward another way.
Agree with the first paragraph.

Agree mostly with the second paragraph, except I don't think we're being "so quick" to trade him just because his name is coming up a lot in proposals / trade discussion.

He just happens to be the most likely target to be a centerpiece in a deal for Nash because he's a young, skilled, top-4 defenseman who has the tools to POTENTIALLY improve into a top-pairing guy.

Suggesting a trade in which DZ is the best piece going back to CLB for Rick "first overall" Nash is a compliment in itself.

I agree it'd be ideal to keep DZ and have the top line winger we desperately need fall into our laps. But it's very unlikely. Even Parise, who will have 15 other teams bidding for him (including the team that he just went to the finals with) isn't really the TYPE of winger who will transform our offense into some creative dynamo. He makes us better, for sure, but it'd be more of the same grinding exhausting effort. Expending tons of energy and not generating enough high-quality chances.

I think we have the defensemen, both already established, and prospects to fill the void that would be left by DZ. And if the loss is substantially felt at first, I think thats okay. Because, we have the best goaltender in the world, and any two of Staal, Girardi, and McDonagh can form one of the best shutdown pairs in the entire league. Add that to the style this team plays and the defensively conscious forward group we have, we should still be a top defensive team.

So if our defense takes a small step back this year while Erixon or McIlrath have some growing pains adjusting to the NHL game, we will still be in very good shape (again, mostly thanks to Lundqvist, Staal, McDonagh, Girardi).

So it's my feeling that using DZ to acquire a difference-making offensive catalyst like Nash is smart asset management.

I'm also pro-Radulov as I think he's a great facilitator in the offensive zone and brings abilities that nobody on our team or in the system has.

His (and Nash's) ability to attack the middle of the ice and create room for himself and his teammates with his skill is noticeably absent from our group of forwards.

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06-07-2012, 07:20 PM
  #906
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When Ryan McDonagh scored his first NHL goal against Jersey on that Saturday afternoon when the Rangers had to win to remain in playoff contention.

Quote:
Congrats to Ryan Mcdonagh for scoring his first NHL goal today!!!
https://twitter.com/6Schultz6/status...96715998650368

Justin Schultz tweet. McDonagh was not on twitter yet.

Brooks wrote "all in"

Quote:
Tortorella’s acknowledgment that Michael Sauer, who did not play after being concussed on Dec. 5, is “a huge question mark” and “can’t be counted on [for next season]” means that adding a top-four defenseman becomes a priority. The Rangers will be all in on the University of Wisconsin’s presumptive free agent Justin Schultz as the first step toward filling that void.
Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/range...#ixzz1x9hQPt3s

All in? MAX bonuses. $2,850,000 is all in. First round pick overall bonus money. $3,775,000 cap hit. $925,000 MAX salary. The bonus cushion will be back in the CBA for next season.

Quote:
(ii) A Club shall be permitted to have an Averaged Club Salary in
excess of the Upper Limit resulting from Performance Bonuses
solely to the extent that such excess results from the inclusion in
Averaged Club Salary of: (i) Exhibit 5 Individual "A"
Performance Bonuses and "B" Performance Bonuses paid by the
Club that may be earned by Players in the Entry Level System and
(ii) Performance Bonuses that may be earned by Players pursuant
to Section 50.2(b)(i)(C) above, provided that under no
circumstances may a Club's Averaged Club Salary so exceed the
Upper Limit by an amount greater than the result of seven-and-
one-half (7.5) percent multiplied by the Upper Limit (the
"Performance Bonus Cushion").
Cap remains $64.3M in the next CBA. 7.5% can be rolled over into the 13-14 cap. $4,822,500 in bonuses can be deferred to the 13-14 cap. That's if Schultz reaches all of the bonuses and he'll be an All-Star D if he reaches those bonuses.

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06-07-2012, 07:34 PM
  #907
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i want schultz but i don't think we can afford to give him a deal with that kind of cap hit

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06-07-2012, 07:48 PM
  #908
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CM PUNK View Post
i want schultz but i don't think we can afford to give him a deal with that kind of cap hit
That deal is greens fees on Schultz. Anyone who wants him has to go all in. We're in much better shape than others to dfo that.

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06-07-2012, 07:56 PM
  #909
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CM PUNK View Post
i want schultz but i don't think we can afford to give him a deal with that kind of cap hit
His bonuses will count against the cap but the Rangers can go over the cap by about $4 million. Only rolls over to next season if he hits all the bonuses.

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06-07-2012, 08:25 PM
  #910
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UAGoalieGuy View Post
His bonuses will count against the cap but the Rangers can go over the cap by about $4 million. Only rolls over to next season if he hits all the bonuses.
Excuse my ignorance but why could the Rangers go 4 mil over the cap? Also what is the max Schultz would count against the cap and what is a reasonable raise for MDZ this year?

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06-07-2012, 08:28 PM
  #911
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pizza View Post
Players with the tools Del Zotto has are rare. His improvement this past season was tremendous. People can critique his defense all they want, but the fact remains his play was much, much better. That combined with his age tells me that you hold onto him unless someone really pushes a lot of chips across the table.
Excellent post!
Everyone forgets he's only 21 yrs old, and improving. Let's talk in 2 years time, at which point we'll have a better indication of where his game is, and will be.

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06-07-2012, 08:30 PM
  #912
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RGY View Post
I was extremely disappointed the way mdz played in the last two games of the devils series. And I also thought throughout the playoffs and even the season, his offensive game just wasnt that much of an impact. He had spurts of brilliance and plays that made you get out of your seat but there were times where he just looked awful on the PP and he was supposed to benefit from Brad Richards playing on the point with him. He made poor decisions with the puck imo.

Having said all that, you guys are absolutely crazy to be so quick to trade the kid. He his still so young, he has good speed and ability. He can move the puck well. Trading him would be a mistake. I'd rather add Schultz, hold onto DZ, and have a strong 6 defenders than to trade him for a sniper. And yes I know we need more offense but there are other ways to do it. Parise is out there. But we may not get him. Radulov is out there but he may not sign. Or you can trade Anisimov or Dubinsky as part of a package to add another scoring forward. But even so worse case scenario is you go for Alex Semin. And I'm not even a fan of Semin. Don't like the way he plays at times. BUT I'd rather hold onto our defense albeit a YOUNG one, and find a forward another way.
If DZ can find a way to be more confident and consistent on the rush I also think he could really contribute a lot for us and ease our scoring woes without breaking the team up for a enigmatic scorer like Semin or Radulov . However...if we can add a guy like either of them 2 for peanuts...I can live with that decision too ! I just want DZ here for at least 1 more season as well as Dubi .

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06-07-2012, 09:31 PM
  #913
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UAGoalieGuy View Post
His bonuses will count against the cap but the Rangers can go over the cap by about $4 million. Only rolls over to next season if he hits all the bonuses.
assuming that the same bonus cushion rules apply but good point i wasn't thinking of that...and assuming we don't bring in an over 35 year old on a bonus incentive deal like prospal had, we really don't have too many potential bonuses to worry about at the moment

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06-07-2012, 09:42 PM
  #914
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Originally Posted by NJRangers35 View Post
Excuse my ignorance but why could the Rangers go 4 mil over the cap? Also what is the max Schultz would count against the cap and what is a reasonable raise for MDZ this year?
I'm no CBA specialist, but teams are allowed to go over the upper salary cap limit by 7.5% or something like that for bonuses in ELC and 35+ contracts. What ever bonuses those player hit count against the cap for the next season (aka dead cap space). Whatever bonuses the player does not achieve does nit count against the cap the following season.

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06-07-2012, 09:55 PM
  #915
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Originally Posted by bogans View Post
To be fair, I really think it is McDonagh who took DZ's spot if he were to get traded. The guy has offense that is yet to be seen and has the same lefty shot that DZ owns. DZ is clearly a second pairing D-man in this league and a PP QB. Problem is I think McDonagh is a first pairing D-man in this league and a PP QB who will play on the second pair due to Marc Staal being a freak of defense. DZ either plays on his off wing where he is totally ineffective on offense and especially defense or he plays on the third pair and is a waste of talent. I want them to be deep and like DZ as a Ranger, but its kind of silly to NOT trade the guy based upon what he can probably bring back in return.

With either Schultz (if Sather gets him, which he should) or Erixon primed to take the second line RD spot and provide a righty shot from the point on the PP, the Rangers have got their top 4 future defense lined up. The rest will be filled in with some combination of McIlrath (who really could provide something none of the other guys do and a physical specimen), Erixon/Schultz, free agent/Bickel/Stralman/Eminger.

I absolutely loved the New York Rangers of 1991-1992, my favorite team of all-time, but I don't think they would've won the cup without trading Turcotte, Amonte, Weight, Patrick, and others who I wanted to be Rangers their entire careers. By the same token, turn Dubi and DZ into a Bobby Ryan (my first choice) and it goes a long way towards transforming this team into a team that not only COULD win, but SHOULD win. Hopefully Slats gets that, I think he does.
Once again, though, the same issue which I mentioned in my original post still remains: neither Schultz or Erixon has proven anything yet. I wouldn't have a major problem with trading DZ if both Schultz and Erixon surpass him on the depth chart. But so far that hasn't happened, and Schultz isn't even Rangers property and he may never be.

Sanguinetti was once touted as this team's offensive defenseman of the future and we know how that turned out. The players have to prove it on the ice before they make others expendable. The last young defenseman Sather traded away was Tyutin, and that was only after Girardi and Staal made him expendable. I think Sather will give Del Zotto the same benefit of the doubt unless there is some sort of ridiculous offer for him. Trading Del Zotto at this moment just seems incongruous with what Tortorella said on the radio last week about how the team needs more depth on defense.

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06-08-2012, 05:10 AM
  #916
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If Schultz hits all of his bonuses,he will be a top NHL player. IF he reaches the bonuses. The Rangers have about $1.4M-$1.5M in performance bonuses wrapped up in Kreider and Erixon. Burke has so many mafia codes(has his own holiday trading deadline/wants to impose his own trading deadline before the Feb. trading deadline),he won't give Schultz $2,850,000 in bonuses. That money goes to first round pick overall forwards. Tavares. Hall. RNH.

2 years/$7,550,000

$925,000 Max salary/$92,500 SB

$2,850,000 in bonuses

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06-08-2012, 06:39 AM
  #917
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UAGoalieGuy View Post
I'm no CBA specialist, but teams are allowed to go over the upper salary cap limit by 7.5% or something like that for bonuses in ELC and 35+ contracts. What ever bonuses those player hit count against the cap for the next season (aka dead cap space). Whatever bonuses the player does not achieve does nit count against the cap the following season.
You defer up to 7.5% in bonuses to the following season. If the bonuses are reached and the team doesn't have enough space,they can defer them to the next year.

If the Rangers do hopefully sign Schultz and they give him the MAX bonuses

Schultz-$2,850,000
Erixon-$850,000
Kreider-$637,500
McDonagh-$425,000
Hagelin-$187,500

$4,950,000

$64.3M cap. 7.5%. $4,822,500. Rangers could defer almost of the bonuses if they are all reached but the Rangers usually leave space to absorb the bonuses in the cap. That's assuming the entire season is played in 12-13.


Last edited by RangerBoy: 06-08-2012 at 07:01 AM.
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06-08-2012, 07:29 AM
  #918
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I don't care about that money.

Schultz is 100% worth it.

Like someone said about Del Zotto's tools being rare in a 21 year old. Schultz's mix of tools and smarts is more rare.

Schultz is 100% NHL ready as far as his game and his brain are concerned. His strength is the only question. And i don't think its much of a question because of how he plays.

Schultz would give us a big boost of puck possession, and transition.

You don't worry about the max he can be given when considering a player like this.

He will most likely get "AHL" seasoning before the NHL season starts anyway because of a lockout. I say "AHL" because during the lockout it will really be a haven for NHL players.

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06-08-2012, 08:22 AM
  #919
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Once again, though, the same issue which I mentioned in my original post still remains: neither Schultz or Erixon has proven anything yet. I wouldn't have a major problem with trading DZ if both Schultz and Erixon surpass him on the depth chart. But so far that hasn't happened, and Schultz isn't even Rangers property and he may never be.

Sanguinetti was once touted as this team's offensive defenseman of the future and we know how that turned out. The players have to prove it on the ice before they make others expendable. The last young defenseman Sather traded away was Tyutin, and that was only after Girardi and Staal made him expendable. I think Sather will give Del Zotto the same benefit of the doubt unless there is some sort of ridiculous offer for him. Trading Del Zotto at this moment just seems incongruous with what Tortorella said on the radio last week about how the team needs more depth on defense.
I agree, a lot of that was hypothetical, you need to sign Schultz and either Schultz or Erixon need to be ready to take second pairing minutes in their rookie season. But these guys are both considered can't miss prospects. Erixon wasn't ready this year because of his lack of strength, not because of mechanics or tools. He should be working all summer on fixing that issue, hopefully he is working with some former NHL'er, like maybe his dad or gods be good Gary Roberts. The kid needs to be ready to take a roster spot next season, though that might be third pair, not second. Schultz is not even Ranger property agreed, but my post was assuming Sather could draw him here to win now. Though it is possible Schultz comes in and is missing the requisite strength or think speed for a NHL roster spot right away just like Erixon did this year.

All of this though does not address the bigger issue. Putting Staal, DZ, or McD on the third pairing is an enormous waste of very valuable assets. Putting any of them on the right side completely undermines their ability to be the player they should be. We have valuable parts that do not fit on the roster and are at the absolute height of their value on a win now team. Granted it was somewhat wurprising but NYR was first overall in the East and made it to Game 6 of the ECF. The window is now and what do they need to win? A scorer, a big bodied scorer at that. Especially with Gabby set to be a late starter with no summer training. What parts do the Rangers own that will bring that back. The answer to me is DZ.

There is no other decision in my mind. Richards is 32, Gabby is 30, and Henke is 30. NYR has a good future, but if these guys go over the hill without a Cup there is a definite chance this team will be looking at aging stars 3 years down the road. The time is now, and you have to make the necessary moves to give these guys the chance to win in blue, especially Henke. Yes, they got the ECF with the current team, but the lack of scoring pushed them to game 7's in both of the first two rounds, it is the most obvious need on this club and waiting for DZ to hit his stride at 26 in four years isn't really an option.

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06-08-2012, 08:28 AM
  #920
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yeah with the bonus cushion and carry over i'd give him the max bonus...plus like RB said if he earns all the bonuses then it'll be worth it.

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06-08-2012, 08:30 AM
  #921
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Schultz is 100% NHL ready as far as his game and his brain are concerned. His strength is the only question. And i don't think its much of a question because of how he plays.
No one is 100% ready to jump from college straight to the NHL. There is always room to grow. That would make him the exception and not the rule. And having the strength to withstand an NHL forecheck is a BIG issue.

I like Schultz and want the Rangers to sign him. But let's not let our own hype take over.

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06-08-2012, 08:33 AM
  #922
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
I don't care about that money.

Schultz is 100% worth it.

Like someone said about Del Zotto's tools being rare in a 21 year old. Schultz's mix of tools and smarts is more rare.

Schultz is 100% NHL ready as far as his game and his brain are concerned. His strength is the only question. And i don't think its much of a question because of how he plays.

Schultz would give us a big boost of puck possession, and transition.

You don't worry about the max he can be given when considering a player like this.

He will most likely get "AHL" seasoning before the NHL season starts anyway because of a lockout. I say "AHL" because during the lockout it will really be a haven for NHL players.
I am all for getting Schultz since he won't cost any assets.
I'd be hesitant to annoint him as anything though.

The words above and what others have said about him sound errily similar to what was said about Matt Gilroy.
Even during his first training camp here people were comparing him to Zubov and Leetch.

If DZ is the chip needed to land a player we need so be it, but I'd be much more comfortable going into next season knowing he is here.

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06-08-2012, 08:35 AM
  #923
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Originally Posted by bogans View Post
What parts do the Rangers own that will bring that back. The answer to me is DZ.
You cannot trade a to-4 defenseman until you have another top-4 defenseman ready to step in and play. Erixon has not shown that he is ready for such a role. Schultz is not even a Ranger. Weakening your strength is not the way to go.

Offensively, the Rangers will improve organically. The kids will learn more and develop more. Thrusting away 21 year old defensemen that have been playing top-4 minutes on a team that went to the Eastern Conference Finals seems short sighted. Not all that long ago, we witnessed former young Rangers blossoming on other teams. Are we really ready to relive all that?

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06-08-2012, 08:46 AM
  #924
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You cannot trade a to-4 defenseman until you have another top-4 defenseman ready to step in and play. Erixon has not shown that he is ready for such a role. Schultz is not even a Ranger. Weakening your strength is not the way to go.

Offensively, the Rangers will improve organically. The kids will learn more and develop more. Thrusting away 21 year old defensemen that have been playing top-4 minutes on a team that went to the Eastern Conference Finals seems short sighted. Not all that long ago, we witnessed former young Rangers blossoming on other teams. Are we really ready to relive all that?
I would argue that DZ is NOT a top 4 defenseman when playing on the right side. If one of the two kids is not ready, I think we need to go with a free agent option and still trade Del Zotto. Greg Zanon anybody? Strong defensively, blocks shots, and would fit into the NYR system real well. On top of that, we do have Michael Sauer who hopefully can get back by November or December ala Marc Staal this year. And that would allow time for one of two kids to take bottom pairing minutes and adjust, hopefully Erixon with added strength.

Yes, I agree you do not want to weaken the strength of your team in defense, but it a gross misuse of assets to employ DZ or McD on the third pairing or on the right side much longer and either could bring back a kings ransom. I just believe that McD has a higher ceiling overall than DZ. Please don't think I hate Del Zotto like a lot of people out there do, I wish this kid could play in blue the rest of his career, but his best value to the Rangers is as trade bait.

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06-08-2012, 10:19 AM
  #925
True Blue
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Join Date: Feb 2002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bogans View Post
I would argue that DZ is NOT a top 4 defenseman when playing on the right side. If one of the two kids is not ready, I think we need to go with a free agent option and still trade Del Zotto.
You can argue, but the fact is that is exactly what he was for virtually the entire season.
Quote:
If one of the two kids is not ready, I think we need to go with a free agent option and still trade Del Zotto.
Do you think that you can get an upgrade that is affordable and STILL have the same high upside?

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