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Yandle for Staal Rumour (via Eklund)

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Old
06-08-2012, 10:45 AM
  #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevyD View Post
I am sorry you feel the comment is funny. I am just not sure why...

Jack Johnson made the U.S. Olympic team in 2010. Yandle was not even an alternate candidate.

http://proicehockey.about.com/od/oly...usa-roster.htm

JJ was the Captain for the US team at this year's World Championship. He will be on the Olympic team in 2014 - likely as an Assistant Captain. Johnson is also younger and (I believe) cheaper - contract and cap.

Now... Please explain why Yandle is at a (much) higher level than Jack Johnson.
Yandle was left off the potential list of players by Burke and his cronies that picked the US team. Regardless on how Yandle improved that season because they left him off the summer list there was no chance he could have ever been selected.

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06-08-2012, 10:49 AM
  #77
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I like Yandle a great deal. By no means would I ever consider running him out of town. He is a great locker room player by all accounts so any decision to move him has to be well thought out.

My opinion is merely that under the right circumstances I would deal Yandle for an impact forward. I believe Staal can be a true impact #1 center in this league and he's a name that I would strongly consider dealing for.

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06-08-2012, 12:39 PM
  #78
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If you can work out a deal with Staal ahead of time, I can't imagine that you wouldn't at least think about trading Yandle depending on the other associated pieces.
I like Yandle alot. But being able to ice Staal-Hanzal down the middle under Tippett would be something I would think long and hard about. Having said that, I don't see Staal being willing to pass up a shot at UFA for a team he hasn't played for yet, and I wouldn't make a trade involving Yandle without a long-term deal already in place.

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Old
06-08-2012, 01:52 PM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hbk View Post
I like Yandle a great deal. By no means would I ever consider running him out of town. He is a great locker room player by all accounts so any decision to move him has to be well thought out.

My opinion is merely that under the right circumstances I would deal Yandle for an impact forward. I believe Staal can be a true impact #1 center in this league and he's a name that I would strongly consider dealing for.
Quote:
Originally Posted by _Del_ View Post
If you can work out a deal with Staal ahead of time, I can't imagine that you wouldn't at least think about trading Yandle depending on the other associated pieces.
I like Yandle alot. But being able to ice Staal-Hanzal down the middle under Tippett would be something I would think long and hard about. Having said that, I don't see Staal being willing to pass up a shot at UFA for a team he hasn't played for yet, and I wouldn't make a trade involving Yandle without a long-term deal already in place.
If Staal had the same contract Yandle does, yeah the proposal would give me some pause. I'm fairly confident that ultimately I'd turn it down, but I would have to consider it.

If you really want to make me cry you'll make it Staal and Michalek for Yandle and something else really good.

RHD - Michalek, Morris, Rundblad
LHD - OEL, Klesla, Shut-Down Vet, Summers(7th)

With Gormley and Stone on the farm. Oh boy!

nevergunnahappen

For Esses and Gees, let's get super convoluted...



To PIT
Yandle
Korpikoski
Stone

To PHX
Staal
Michalek
-------
To CBJ
LaBarbera
Schlemko
PHX '12 5th

To PHX
Mason
---------
To SJS
PHX '12 2nd

To PHX
Murray

on July 1st

Hudler to PHX on a 3yr 12mil

Brad Stuart to SJS on a retirement deal

12-13 Coyotes

Whitney-Staal-Doan
Hudler-Hanzal-Vrbata
Pyatt/Brule-Vermette-Boedker
Torres-Gordon-Chipchura/Brule

Bissonnette/Brule/Chipchura/Pyatt

OEL-Michalek
Klesla-Morris
Murray-Rundblad
Summers

Smith
Mason

Really, really nevergunnahappen

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Last edited by rt: 06-08-2012 at 02:08 PM.
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Old
06-08-2012, 02:21 PM
  #80
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If I didn't have a totally straight man crush for Yandle, I might have a different view, but I wouldn't do this.

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Old
06-08-2012, 03:43 PM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinurgy View Post
You do realize we're talking about the NHL here, not Team USA? .
That is a silly comment. The best American players were picked for the 2010 Olympic team and Yandle was not even on the list.
You can't answer the point with logic so you used sarcasm.

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Originally Posted by Sinurgy View Post
Don't get me wrong, I like JJ and think he has a chance to flourish in Columbus but right now his numbers in the NHL, which are all I care about, are not on par with Yandle..
If you asked most GM's in the NHL, the difference between JJ and KY would be seen as minimal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinurgy View Post
There is a reason Yandle is a 2 time all-star and JJ is a zero time all-star.
So l understand... You are dismissing JJ's selection to the US Olympic team where there is minimal bias and the selection group's ONLY concern is the best players BUT you are giving weight to an All-Star selection that is based on popularity and who is willing to give up a long weekend and go. I really have no idea how to argue with that; I do think you need to reset your priorities.

Let me answer you this way... Ask the players which honour is considered greater.

Also, if you added Drew Doughty to the Coyotes, Yandle would never see another All Star game in his career. It's hard to make the All Star Team when one of your teammates, who plays the same position, has the potential to be one of the games all time greats - at the young age of 22.


Last edited by OttawaRoughRiderFan: 06-08-2012 at 04:44 PM.
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Old
06-08-2012, 03:43 PM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rt View Post
If Staal had the same contract Yandle does, yeah the proposal would give me some pause. I'm fairly confident that ultimately I'd turn it down, but I would have to consider it.

If you really want to make me cry you'll make it Staal and Michalek for Yandle and something else really good.

RHD - Michalek, Morris, Rundblad
LHD - OEL, Klesla, Shut-Down Vet, Summers(7th)

With Gormley and Stone on the farm. Oh boy!

nevergunnahappen

For Esses and Gees, let's get super convoluted...



To PIT
Yandle
Korpikoski
Stone

To PHX
Staal
Michalek
-------
To CBJ
LaBarbera
Schlemko
PHX '12 5th

To PHX
Mason
---------
To SJS
PHX '12 2nd

To PHX
Murray

on July 1st

Hudler to PHX on a 3yr 12mil

Brad Stuart to SJS on a retirement deal

12-13 Coyotes

Whitney-Staal-Doan
Hudler-Hanzal-Vrbata
Pyatt/Brule-Vermette-Boedker
Torres-Gordon-Chipchura/Brule

Bissonnette/Brule/Chipchura/Pyatt

OEL-Michalek
Klesla-Morris
Murray-Rundblad
Summers

Smith
Mason

Really, really nevergunnahappen
I may be incorrect, but I thought that Maloney had said that we were less likely to re-sign Brule.

If we did trade Yandle, why not sign Corvo to a 2 year deal? I could deal with Klesla-OEL, Corvo-Morris, Schlemko-Stone/Summers/Rundblad/Gormley on the back end.

This gives us the cap room to extend Staal and Smith, and look to Hudler or Ponikarovsky for some help on the wings?

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Old
06-08-2012, 04:04 PM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hbk View Post
Yandle was left off the potential list of players by Burke and his cronies that picked the US team. Regardless on how Yandle improved that season because they left him off the summer list there was no chance he could have ever been selected.
That's fair. He certainly has improved since 2010.



If you want to get quality, you need to trade quality. If I am Phoenix, I make that trade.


Last edited by OttawaRoughRiderFan: 06-08-2012 at 04:21 PM.
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Old
06-08-2012, 04:26 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Gwyddbwyll View Post
Had a quick look at Jack Johnson's stats and he's a shocking -85 over his career.

Not a big fan of his character either since I saw him play as a collegiate player. He would literally take the puck off his teammates on a regular basis.
JJ's plus/minus has always been a criticism and rightfully so. Right now, I would take Yandle. In a few years, once JJ has had time to blossom and is no longer under Drew Doughty's shadow, Johnson may be the Top American D-Man. He certainly was the better of the two early in their careers.

I feel that they are close enough that the 'JJ for Carter' trade could be used as a comparison and proof that if you want a Top End Center for your D-Man, the cost will be very high.


Last edited by OttawaRoughRiderFan: 06-08-2012 at 04:41 PM.
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Old
06-08-2012, 05:25 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by KevyD View Post
That's fair. He certainly has improved since 2010.



If you want to get quality, you need to trade quality. If I am Phoenix, I make that trade.
I'm in agreement. You are preaching to the converted with me.

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06-08-2012, 05:29 PM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevyD View Post
That is a silly comment. The best American players were picked for the 2010 Olympic team and Yandle was not even on the list.
You can't answer the point with logic so you used sarcasm.
What's silly is that you're trying to base your argument off of who was picked for the 2010 USA Olympic Team as opposed to what the player has actually done in the NHL.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KevyD View Post
If you asked most GM's in the NHL, the difference between JJ and KY would be seen as minimal.
Like you have the slightest idea what most GM's in the NHL would say.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KevyD View Post
So l understand... You are dismissing JJ's selection to the US Olympic team where there is minimal bias and the selection group's ONLY concern is the best players BUT you are giving weight to an All-Star selection that is based on popularity and who is willing to give up a long weekend and go. I really have no idea how to argue with that; I do think you need to reset your priorities.
Popularity contest?! Keith Yandle is a ****ing Phoenix Coyote, if it's one thing we can be certain it's that he did not make the All-Star team based on popularity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KevyD View Post
Also, if you added Drew Doughty to the Coyotes, Yandle would never see another All Star game in his career. It's hard to make the All Star Team when one of your teammates, who plays the same position, has the potential to be one of the games all time greats - at the young age of 22.
You just got done saying he made the All-Star game based on popularity which would have nothing to do with who else is on the team but whatever. Moving along...

JJ Career: 364 games played, 138pts, -87
Yandle Career: 365 games played, 187pts, +17

So they've played pretty much the same amount of games yet Yandle has scored almost %40 more points and has a +/- differential of 104 and you're trying to tell me they are pretty much the same?! Also you keep talking like JJ is a youngster but he's only 4 months younger than Yandle. Perhaps you should actually research your opinions instead of telling me to reset my priorities.

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Old
06-08-2012, 05:50 PM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinurgy View Post
What's silly is that you're trying to base your argument off of who was picked for the 2010 USA Olympic Team as opposed to what the player has actually done in the NHL.
But the Olympic teams ARE based on what a player does in the NHL. You just don't want to concede this point no matter how illogical your argument.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinurgy View Post
Like you have the slightest idea what most GM's in the NHL would say. .
I know how many teams wanted JJ when he was in play. But, you are right, I cannnot read minds. Well done.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinurgy View Post
Popularity contest?! Keith Yandle is a ****ing Phoenix Coyote, if it's one thing we can be certain it's that he did not make the All-Star team based on popularity.
Each team has to have at least one representative. The team/players often decide who to send from each team - what I meant by popularity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinurgy View Post
You just got done saying he made the All-Star game based on popularity which would have nothing to do with who else is on the team but whatever. Moving along....
Again...

Each team has to have at least one representative. The team/players often decide who to send from each team - what I meant by popularity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinurgy View Post
JJ Career: 364 games played, 138pts, -87
Yandle Career: 365 games played, 187pts, +17

So they've played pretty much the same amount of games yet Yandle has scored almost %40 more points and has a +/- differential of 104 and you're trying to tell me they are pretty much the same?!.
Your first good point. Now, if you had stuck with arguing facts instead of attack posts...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinurgy View Post
Also you keep talking like JJ is a youngster but he's only 4 months younger than Yandle. Perhaps you should actually research your opinions instead of telling me to reset my priorities.
How do I keep bringing up who is younger? I brought it up... once? They both have long careers ahead of them. JJ had the stronger start to his career. Yandle has been better since 2010. We will have to see who is better going forward. Don't assume it will be Yandle.


Last edited by OttawaRoughRiderFan: 06-08-2012 at 08:36 PM.
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Old
06-08-2012, 05:56 PM
  #88
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Just to remain technical, Yandle was actually an injury replacement in the 2010-11 game (which he should have been in all along). Not sure if the 2011-12 game basically was set up to have him in there, but I would have said that Whitney and Vrbata to that point were more valuable and had done more to get an invite last year...

Also, there are a few GMs out there that do not like Yandle. During games, my seats in the corners are in areas where several players and team management types sit. I've met Khabibulin, Yip, and a few other players. I've also had the opportunity to sit near a president and two scouts (I won't name the team) who basically all scoffed when I mentioned Yandle's name and they all said that they would never trade for Keith, no matter what the return was. There are front office individuals who share the opinion of Keith much more than you realize...


Last edited by BUX7PHX: 06-08-2012 at 06:02 PM. Reason: Other info to add
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Old
06-08-2012, 06:00 PM
  #89
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Would Staal be a good fit for the Yotes, of course, he's a reliable 2-way center who can fill the #1 role. Is he a ppg player? Nope, don't think so, can he put up consistently good numbers in the 60's, perhaps!

You have to consider that if he became a Yote, he would almost certainly draw the other teams top d-pairing, and he's never seen that in Pitt with Crosby and Malkin comfortably in the #1a & #1b positions.

Yandle is a top 10 scoring Dman, Staal wouldn't be a top10 pt producing center. Next season, I'd expect Yandle to have a bounce back year and produce in the 55+ pt range. I just don't think you give up those type's of Dmen unless it's for an equally dynamic center who's a PPG player.

It was be more prudent for the Yotes to trade a 5th rounder to Toronto for Lombardi and have Lombardi/Vermette/Hanzal/Gordon down the middle while keeping Yandle, especially since as others have said, we all think OEL is the 2nd coming of Lidstrom, but Gormley/Murphy/Rundblad haven't proven that they are NHL top 4 defensemen, and plus I'll always come back to this, Yandle signed a 5-yr deal to stay. Those are the guys you keep, the great players that want to play for the franchise.

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06-08-2012, 06:02 PM
  #90
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Agreed. And Lombardi for a 5th could EASILY end up another Vrbata for Hale and Fedoruk.

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06-08-2012, 06:06 PM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BUX7PHX View Post
Just to remain technical, Yandle was actually an injury replacement in the 2010-11 game (which he should have been in all along). Not sure if the 2011-12 game basically was set up to have him in there, but I would have said that Whitney and Vrbata to that point were more valuable and had done more to get an invite last year...
Each team needs a minimum of one rep. Teams like to send popular players to please fans. It often has little to do with who was the best player.


Last edited by OttawaRoughRiderFan: 06-08-2012 at 06:11 PM.
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Old
06-08-2012, 06:07 PM
  #92
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Also, there are a few GMs out there that do not like Yandle. During games, my seats in the corners are in areas where several players and team management types sit. I've met Khabibulin, Yip, and a few other players. I've also had the opportunity to sit near a president and two scouts (I won't name the team) who basically all scoffed when I mentioned Yandle's name and they all said that they would never trade for Keith, no matter what the return was. There are front office individuals who share the opinion of Keith much more than you realize...
Well said.

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06-08-2012, 06:23 PM
  #93
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Yandle signed a 5-yr deal to stay. Those are the guys you keep, the great players that want to play for the franchise.
Not overly related, but I think retaining Yandle would help send a message. Once you commit to the franchise it will take care of you. Especially in the case of OEL and Boedker. Guys who fit in and work well in the system. Because once this team has some money to spend they'll need to be an attractive destination. Who wouldn't want to come in as a top FA center with a great goalie and defense backing you up?

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06-08-2012, 06:29 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by KevyD View Post
Each team needs a minimum of one rep. Teams like to send popular players to please fans. It often has little to do with who was the best player.
Hence, why I said it may have been set up in that sense to reward his play and since Yandle is a popular figure and the forward crop out west is pretty deep, Yandle was the choice...

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06-08-2012, 06:34 PM
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Originally Posted by BUX7PHX View Post
Also, there are a few GMs out there that do not like Yandle. During games, my seats in the corners are in areas where several players and team management types sit. I've met Khabibulin, Yip, and a few other players. I've also had the opportunity to sit near a president and two scouts (I won't name the team) who basically all scoffed when I mentioned Yandle's name and they all said that they would never trade for Keith, no matter what the return was. There are front office individuals who share the opinion of Keith much more than you realize...
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Well said.
Well I suppose I could throw out some anecdotal evidence as well but honestly what's the point?

Granted it fits perfectly in a discussion sparked by an Eklund rumor.

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06-08-2012, 06:52 PM
  #96
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Agreed. And Lombardi for a 5th could EASILY end up another Vrbata for Hale and Fedoruk.
I still love how you called that deal.

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06-08-2012, 07:23 PM
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Well I suppose I could throw out some anecdotal evidence as well but honestly what's the point?

Granted it fits perfectly in a discussion sparked by an Eklund rumor.
I guess in saying this, it represents two trains of thought.

#1: Yandle is a very polarizing player, to an extent. The fact that not one of the individuals had anything positive to say about him was interesting, and there are people on these boards who primarily love him. I am one of those who sees more negatives to his game, even going back further than this past season. As rt says, he has the ability to be Super Yandle, if it showed up more consistently (not even talking season to season or game to game here, sometimes it is shift to shift), then I would agree with most that he would not be traded. Sadly, I see OEL as already having bypassed Yandle, and Yandle will kind of hang around as someone that you hope will return theform he showed in 2010-11. He has the ability to do so, and if he does, I will eat my jersey.

#2: Being that he is a polarizing player, it makes sense to trade him at his peak before better instincts take over another front office. Let's say Yandle disappoints next year. Suddenly, both the number of teams that were interested in previous years and the price that we can ask for in return drops. Now, we face the prospect of seeing our best return from defense to get a forward as OEL and Gormley, two players who are legitimate top 10 draft picks with Norris hype from the time they were selected in the draft. Given that alternative, I'd rather take some growing pains now by trading Yandle and letting our system assist the younger guys before their talent takes over within the system.

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06-08-2012, 07:51 PM
  #98
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I see both sides to this discussion, which is why I'm torn. Yandle provides a lot of offense, and IMO played very well when we needed him during the postseason. He is an Asst Captain, and committed long-term to the team when we had severe ownership question marks. Those all favor keeping him.

Yandle is very well paid though, and my fear is that the fact is he will always be an offensive blueliner who hurts the team at times with large gaffes. So you could easily make the case that this would be getting higher value than we'd maybe get down the road.

As for Staal, I look at numbers of players I rarely see play in person, and I think his game made a huge improvement this year. Much of it likely came from getting more top 6 minutes while Crosby was out. At his age (how is he only 23 and up for UFA after next year?), he still has upside and room to improve. He fits our system well. There was the comment that he would now face tougher defensive pairings. That's likely possible, but keep in mind that would then free up Vermette and Hanzal to face weaker defensive pairings. It would have a cascading benefit for the team. Absent nabbing Parise in free agency, which is probably next to impossible, what likely first line talent can we acquire this year?

My hang up is Staal's contract, or lack of one. Trading 4 years for 1 guaranteed year of Staal is a risk. If we got an assurance that he'd re-up long-term, I'd do this deal, as painful as it is. We would be trading from a source of strength (especially left handed D-men) to a position of scarcity. I'd like to get Z back in the deal as well, but to be honest I'd be almost as happy with Niskanen if they balked.

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06-08-2012, 08:38 PM
  #99
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Speaking of the Penguins and puck-moving defensemen, they traded Alex Goligoski (nowhere near the value of Yandle, I'm sure) for James Neal. Neal wasn't a 40-goal scorer yet, of course, but I suspect his value at the time of the trade was a lot closer to what Staal's is now. So in simpler terms:

Staal>Neal (at time of trade)
Yandle>>>Goligoski (at time of trade)

Anyway, regarding the discussion of some other GMs not wanting Yandle, that's fine. What matters is that Maloney wants him, and he obviously wants him, enough to lock him into one of only a handful of long contracts he's handed out. I'm not sure whose decision the alternate captaincy is, but whoever it is, he likes Yandle, too. Seems like the rest of the team does as well.

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06-08-2012, 09:07 PM
  #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhoPhan View Post
Staal>Neal (at time of trade)
The only problem with that comparison is they do not play the same position. Neal plays Right Wing.
Again, Top Line Centers are few and far between. Staal falls under that category.
If the Coyotes don't give Pittsburgh a Top End D-Man for Staal, someone else will.


Last edited by OttawaRoughRiderFan: 06-08-2012 at 09:13 PM.
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