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General Stars Talk IV: The Prequel

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06-07-2012, 11:49 PM
  #476
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I don't know why everyone keeps putting Slater on the same level as Bozak. Bozak is on the level of guys like Matt Stajan and Kyle Wellwood and Sam Gagner. Slater is on Fiddler and Marcel Goc's tier.
Only because he wouldn't cost any assets besides money.

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06-08-2012, 12:14 AM
  #477
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Originally Posted by UnholyPrince View Post
Only because he wouldn't cost any assets besides money.
Fair enough. There's very few guys out there who would contribute the same amount to the team that Slater could.

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06-08-2012, 12:34 AM
  #478
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Originally Posted by Mr Misty View Post
Fair enough, but I do worry about a pure scoring line centered by Mike Ribiero losing a faceoff/turning over the puck and then being trapped in the defensive zone for minutes at a time.
You just described most second lines in hockey; you win and lose by your first and live with the second. Ribeiro centering a second line is a pretty damn good situation as far as that goes. Benn is the best forward on the team and he should play with the second best. Force feeding Ribs offensive zone starts and adding Loui spreads around duties more in line with what I would hope to see.

*I do think I either want to see the Stars trade Ribs sometime this season or extend him and add players around Benn and him. The pecking order just needs to be defined a little more clearly IMO.

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06-08-2012, 12:54 AM
  #479
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Originally Posted by glovesave_35 View Post
You just described most second lines in hockey; you win and lose by your first and live with the second. Ribeiro centering a second line is a pretty damn good situation as far as that goes. Benn is the best forward on the team and he should play with the second best. Force feeding Ribs offensive zone starts and adding Loui spreads around duties more in line with what I would hope to see.

*I do think I either want to see the Stars trade Ribs sometime this season or extend him and add players around Benn and him. The pecking order just needs to be defined a little more clearly IMO.
That's one thing I don't understand and something I've been guilty of myself. Obviously, we could use center prospects still, but it's not like Ribeiro is retiring after this year. I think he'd be very likely to re-sign here for no more than what he's paid now, and his style of play doesn't exactly wear on you. Ryder is the same, it's not like he's done after this season. Obviously, if we can trade him for good younger pieces, we should do it, but I don't really get the whole "him being done in Dallas" thing.

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06-08-2012, 06:41 AM
  #480
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Originally Posted by LatvianTwist View Post
but I don't really get the whole "him being done in Dallas" thing.
I don't think anyone does, but honestly ... how could you not feel that way based on all the comments coming from the Stars?

They talk like they don't have a single Top 6 center it seems sometimes, especially when the owner is saying that's the number one priority even over a #1 D (which everyone clearly sees Dallas actually does lack).

There's a story behind Ribs that fan's will probably never know because if you were going off purely on ice production and performance, logically you'd recognize you'd be very hard pressed to find a better 2nd line center. Ribs has also stated more than once that he loves the team and the city ... that he wants to come back. It's not a matter of needing to move him instead of lose him for nothing IMO either.

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06-08-2012, 06:49 AM
  #481
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The main thing I'll add about Bozak is I will not be surprised even a little if Dallas ultimately acquires him.

GMJN often goes after players he had some sort of professional relationship with, and GMJN was the primary recruiting force that led to Bozak signing in Toronto. You know GMJN has personally scouted and talked to this guy several times.

If you were going to get a 3rd line center and force them into a Top 6 role next season (like I mentioned with Stoll) ... I think wouldn't you ultimately prefer Bozak.

If they are hell bent on getting Benn back to wing ... and it seems like that's a pretty big goal for next season ... at least Benn and Bozak have some history together. Plus, Bozak helps on faceoffs which is a key point brought up by Gully.

I think you could still sign Stoll if you trade for Bozak. I know Kelly's offensive numbers are better, but Stoll is a better overall player IMO. It probably doesn't help that I've watch significantly more games for Stoll than Kelly though ... so I could be biased. I just really like the guy as a 3rd line center.

Since it definitely seems Gully lost confidence in Fiddler as the primary checking center, I think you should take the chance and overspend a bit in free agency to address that. However ... that does go against what Lites said about the team being happy with the Bottom 6.

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06-08-2012, 10:05 AM
  #482
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Originally Posted by BigG44 View Post
The main thing I'll add about Bozak is I will not be surprised even a little if Dallas ultimately acquires him.

GMJN often goes after players he had some sort of professional relationship with, and GMJN was the primary recruiting force that led to Bozak signing in Toronto. You know GMJN has personally scouted and talked to this guy several times.

If you were going to get a 3rd line center and force them into a Top 6 role next season (like I mentioned with Stoll) ... I think wouldn't you ultimately prefer Bozak.

If they are hell bent on getting Benn back to wing ... and it seems like that's a pretty big goal for next season ... at least Benn and Bozak have some history together. Plus, Bozak helps on faceoffs which is a key point brought up by Gully.

I think you could still sign Stoll if you trade for Bozak. I know Kelly's offensive numbers are better, but Stoll is a better overall player IMO. It probably doesn't help that I've watch significantly more games for Stoll than Kelly though ... so I could be biased. I just really like the guy as a 3rd line center.

Since it definitely seems Gully lost confidence in Fiddler as the primary checking center, I think you should take the chance and overspend a bit in free agency to address that. However ... that does go against what Lites said about the team being happy with the Bottom 6.
Is there any example of this in Nieuwendyk's GM career except for Langenbrunner?

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06-08-2012, 10:09 AM
  #483
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Originally Posted by Ambassador Of Fun View Post
Is there any example of this in Nieuwendyk's GM career except for Langenbrunner?
Radek Dvorak. He also added Gary Roberts to the development staff.

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06-08-2012, 10:11 AM
  #484
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Originally Posted by Ambassador Of Fun View Post
Is there any example of this in Nieuwendyk's GM career except for Langenbrunner?
Langs and Dvorak. That's about it.

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06-08-2012, 10:17 AM
  #485
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Originally Posted by BigG44 View Post
Radek Dvorak. He also added Gary Roberts to the development staff.
I would hardly call that often. I guess I am just bitter about thinking of Bozak as our #2 center. Just screams "We're here, we're mediocre, get used to it."

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06-08-2012, 10:38 AM
  #486
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Originally Posted by Ambassador Of Fun View Post
I would hardly call that often. I guess I am just bitter about thinking of Bozak as our #2 center. Just screams "We're here, we're mediocre, get used to it."
Until their free agent splurge last summer, it's not like they'd brought that many people in.

He's gone after two type of players primarily ... guys he knows ... guys with championship pedigree (NHL or other).

The only two I can think of that don't fit one of those two categories was Fiddler and Pardy, but I'm sure I could be leaving someone off.

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06-08-2012, 10:49 AM
  #487
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Originally Posted by BigG44 View Post
Until their free agent splurge last summer, it's not like they'd brought that many people in.

He's gone after two type of players primarily ... guys he knows ... guys with championship pedigree (NHL or other).

The only two I can think of that don't fit one of those two categories was Fiddler and Pardy, but I'm sure I could be leaving someone off.
Souray, Lehtonen, Nystrom. Unless you are referring to draft stock or familial pedigree, then only Souray is added to that list. But yeah, only 2 examples of bringing guys he knows is hardly a trend, and neither were supposed to be high impact moves.

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06-08-2012, 10:50 AM
  #488
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Oh yeah ... and Kari Lehtonen. He mentioned several times after trading for him he brought him in because of his familiarity with Lehts after playing against him in Florida.

That's similar IMO to the guys he's played with.

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06-08-2012, 10:51 AM
  #489
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Originally Posted by BigG44 View Post
Oh yeah ... and Kari Lehtonen. He mentioned several times after trading for him he brought him in because of his familiarity with Lehts after playing against him in Florida.

That's similar IMO to the guys he's played with.
That includes everyone that was in the Eastern Conference at the time of his playing days in Florida, if you're including that.

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06-08-2012, 10:55 AM
  #490
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Pardy was a guy Gully knew (nice talent evaluation there coach), everyone knew Fiddler as a player and they had to have a face off guy lower line center so much they paid him like a third liner

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06-08-2012, 11:04 AM
  #491
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Originally Posted by Starsdude View Post
Pardy was a guy Gully knew (nice talent evaluation there coach), everyone knew Fiddler as a player and they had to have a face off guy lower line center so much they paid him like a third liner
I don't think Fiddler is quite paid as a third liner as you think. If Fiddler made ~2.5, sure, he could be a third liner in terms of salary. But he's not.

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06-08-2012, 12:05 PM
  #492
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I'd prefer Stoll over Kelly. Kelly had a great year last year, but BigG is right that Stoll is better overall. Kelly will probably get paid more and have a longer term as well, simply because of the team he played for and his exposure.

I've always thought our 3rd line was a 4th line at best, even when they were producing. They tried, they're just not that talented.

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06-08-2012, 12:28 PM
  #493
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Originally Posted by BigG44 View Post
The main thing I'll add about Bozak is I will not be surprised even a little if Dallas ultimately acquires him.


If they are hell bent on getting Benn back to wing ... and it seems like that's a pretty big goal for next season ... at least Benn and Bozak have some history together. Plus, Bozak helps on faceoffs which is a key point brought up by Gully.
Bozak and Benn played together ages ago. I hope to god they don't think that actually counts for something in 2012.

If Bozak is somehow acquired he should be the 3rd line center, not the guy who centers Benn's line. That's all kinds of ridiculous. Not to mention his game is tailor made to that of a checking line center with a little offensive punch.

My nightmare offseason is getting rid of Ribeiro and bringing in Bozak and another guy (Kelly or Stoll) in order to move Benn to the wing. Also, people need to remember that Bozak isn't some uber youngster with oodles of untapped potential. He's 26 and not likely to become some 60+ point player all of a sudden.

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06-08-2012, 12:37 PM
  #494
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I don't want Benn moving back to wing unless the center we're bringing in is better than him at center.

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06-08-2012, 01:00 PM
  #495
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I don't want Benn moving back to wing unless the center we're bringing in is better than him at center.
By the continued talk from the team about wanting a center, that seems to be their plan.

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06-08-2012, 02:05 PM
  #496
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Latvian,

There's no way Robidas and our 2nd is worth Tanev, let alone their 1st. They're not giving up a cheap potential top four young defender and throwing their 1st for the pleasure. Robidas is an our scraps for your scraps kinda deal. I don't like Raymond but at this point I'd take him to get rid of Robidas.

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06-08-2012, 02:18 PM
  #497
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Originally Posted by Ambassador Of Fun
I would hardly call that often. I guess I am just bitter about thinking of Bozak as our #2 center. Just screams "We're here, we're mediocre, get used to it."
I'd rather be flat our terrible one year having moved Ribeiro, Morrow, Robidas, and Ott for prospects/picks than continue this middling trend for a 5th year in a row. As long as they add talent, say JVR, Spooner, Schenn, Pirri, anyone like that that the Stars should have a better future. Bozak as a stop gap wouldn't be horrible.

Our prospect pool is 1-3 years away. If we can fill a hole, adequate or not, so that the wingers and young defenders can spend the entire year in Austin improving that's okay with me.

I'd rather have McKinnon plus an NHL ready Nemeth in 2014 than say Max Domi as the 14th overall selection plus Ott.

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06-08-2012, 02:27 PM
  #498
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Latvian,

There's no way Robidas and our 2nd is worth Tanev, let alone their 1st. They're not giving up a cheap potential top four young defender and throwing their 1st for the pleasure. Robidas is an our scraps for your scraps kinda deal. I don't like Raymond but at this point I'd take him to get rid of Robidas.
I honestly had no idea how much Tanev was worth. We don't even have to bring back a defenseman if we were to re-sign Souray, or just sub in a guy like Alberts or something. I probably should've looked into that one a bit more.

Like you said, adding in Raymond would probably be a much better idea. Re-sign Souray, add Raymond, and we're good to go.

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06-08-2012, 02:37 PM
  #499
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Latvian,

There's no way Robidas and our 2nd is worth Tanev, let alone their 1st. They're not giving up a cheap potential top four young defender and throwing their 1st for the pleasure. Robidas is an our scraps for your scraps kinda deal. I don't like Raymond but at this point I'd take him to get rid of Robidas.
That better?

Again, my bad, had no idea how valuable Tanev was.

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06-08-2012, 02:42 PM
  #500
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Better, but I just don't us getting a 1st round pick for Robidas. One on one swap sure, but more than that seems wildly optimistic.

Ottawa, Florida, NYI, and Edmonton could all use a defender, plus his cap is a positive thing to them but I'm not sure Robidas waives his damn no trade to go to any of those teams.

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