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Paul Martin - which teams could be interested?

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Old
06-08-2012, 12:07 PM
  #76
Jeremyisgood
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Plan on a huge + if you think Goligoski gets Neal. Wait, what year am I in?

I hope Martin gets traded, so we can see how far off our trade boards are compared to reality.

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06-08-2012, 12:07 PM
  #77
tsujimoto74
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Originally Posted by wej20 View Post
I don't understand how one bad season makes his contract terrible value. Kotalik couldn't hack it in the NHL any more, that's why Buffalo had to give a pick to move him.
You have that backwards. Calgary gave Buffalo a pick to *take* him....and bury him in Europe. If Pittsburgh wants anything in return other than cap space, they're going to have to give up something/someone whose value is higher. All I'm saying.

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06-08-2012, 12:10 PM
  #78
digdug41982
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Originally Posted by Jaded-Fan View Post
Not really.

He really was not that bad, Pens' fans more were down on him because we have such a wealth of affordable options. Niskanen developing for one was a huge deal. He gives you an option at a fraction of the cost. Despres would have been up with the Pens already if not for being blocked. Morrow, Harrington, and on and on. Martin had a down year, but not by much, and would be sought after if Shero chose to shop him. But get it straight, the only reason he would be shopped was because of the Pens unique situation of young cheap options other than him, and the need to use that salary elsewhere. Like signing Staal, someone to play of Crosby's wing, letang in a couple of years, and on and on. On 90% of other teams you would not be shopping a Martin.
Meh, still think it would be better for other teams to just blackball them and force them to deal him for nothing. When the alternative is keeping Simon Despres in the AHL for another year while Martin loses more value, it's pretty reasonable to assume Shero will cave.

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06-08-2012, 12:10 PM
  #79
Jaded-Fan
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Originally Posted by wej20 View Post
I could easily see a team giving a 2nd for him.
Yeah, like I said above, people are confusing the Pens situation of having an embarrasment of riches and affordable young options on defense with 'desperation' to unload a player who can not skate ten feet without tripping over their own skates. There are a lot of teams that would love having Martin, and with the cap increase, that cap hit is very fair.

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06-08-2012, 12:12 PM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coldsteelonice84 View Post
Meh, still think it would be better for other teams to just blackball them and force them to deal him for nothing. When the alternative is keeping Simon Despres
in the AHL for another year while Martin loses more value, it's pretty reasonable to assume Shero will cave.
Yeah, that is brilliant GMing. Sit back and wait for a Shero to 'cave' over a second rounder who as likely as not will never play an NHL game while your rival GM comes in and makes the trade.

There are a lot of teams out there, and many could use a Martin. If your GM wants to sit back, assuming Shero actually does shop him, another likely won't.

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06-08-2012, 12:13 PM
  #81
digdug41982
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Originally Posted by Jaded-Fan View Post
Yeah, like I said above, people are confusing the Pens situation of having an embarrasment of riches and affordable young options on defense with 'desperation' to unload a player who can not skate ten feet without tripping over their own skates. There are a lot of teams that would love having Martin, and with the cap increase, that cap hit is very fair.
Explain why the Hawks had to take back a horrid contract in Olesz (from the GM that signed Campbell, mind you) to unload an all star D-man who finished 2nd in the league in points for D-men?

Furthermore, everyone thought it was an amzaing move that couldn't have been done.

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06-08-2012, 12:13 PM
  #82
Vujtek
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Originally Posted by coldsteelonice84 View Post
Meh, still think it would be better for other teams to just blackball them and force them to deal him for nothing. When the alternative is keeping Simon Despres in the AHL for another year while Martin loses more value, it's pretty reasonable to assume Shero will cave.
You're assuming a lot when saying Martin would lose more value. What if and when he bounces back to the level we all know he can play? Well there's no reason for Pens to even consider trading him at point.

Despres can be inputted in the roster in place of Matt Niskanen. He'd be better off starting in the 3rd pairing than immediately having to replace Martin's minutes. So moving Niskanen is also an option for the Penguins. They could always also move Michalek instead of Martin. Moving Martin isn't a necessity. It may be preferred option but not the only one. It's not a bad idea to lose Despres maturing in the AHL for one more year either and go with the current group of D-men.

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06-08-2012, 12:14 PM
  #83
joestevens29
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Originally Posted by Jaded-Fan View Post
Yeah, like I said above, people are confusing the Pens situation of having an embarrasment of riches and affordable young options on defense with 'desperation' to unload a player who can not skate ten feet without tripping over their own skates. There are a lot of teams that would love having Martin, and with the cap increase, that cap hit is very fair.
Embarrasment of riches? Your defense got lit up like a x-mas tree in the first round. I wouldn't be bragging about having a lot of good options, because you would've used them to stop the bleeding.

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06-08-2012, 12:15 PM
  #84
tsujimoto74
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Originally Posted by Jaded-Fan View Post
Yeah, that is brilliant GMing. Sit back and wait for a Shero to 'cave' over a second rounder who as likely as not will never play an NHL game while your rival GM comes in and makes the trade.

There are a lot of teams out there, and many could use a Martin. If your GM wants to sit back, assuming Shero actually does shop him, another likely won't.
Yeah, there are a lot of teams who would like to make their defense worse and handcuff themselves to a big contract. Maybe Howson.

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06-08-2012, 12:16 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by coldsteelonice84 View Post
Explain why the Hawks had to take back a horrid contract in Olesz to unload an all star D-man who finished 2nd in the league in points for a D-man?
Explain why the Pens actually need to trade Martin when the cap is going up? The extra space would be nice, but the Pens, as has often been pointed out, have the cap space to fit Staal and all the rest of their needs as they are presently, even with Martin. In fact, most of us think that is the likely scenerio. Sadly, Shero does not seem to listen to our ideas posted here at HF, despite how brilliant most of them are.

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06-08-2012, 12:17 PM
  #86
digdug41982
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Originally Posted by Jaded-Fan View Post
Explain why the Pens actually need to trade Martin when the cap is going up? The extra space would be nice, but the Pens, as has often been pointed out, have the cap space to fit Staal and all the rest of their needs as they are presently, even with Martin. In fact, most of us think that is the likely scenerio. Sadly, Shero does not seem to listen to our ideas posted here at HF, despite how brilliant most of them are.
A question is not an answer to a question.

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06-08-2012, 12:18 PM
  #87
Vujtek
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coldsteelonice84 View Post
Explain why the Hawks had to take back a horrid contract in Olesz (from the GM that signed Campbell, mind you) to unload an all star D-man who finished 2nd in the league in points for D-men?

Furthermore, everyone thought it was an amzaing move that couldn't have been done.
Campbell was coming off equally poor season as Martin. A big difference is that he had two more years in his contract and at over 2 million per year more. Campbell was the highest paid D-man in the league at that point! Also you had replaced your GM since signing that contract. Totally different situations. If you had Campbell at 5.5 million per for 3 years, you could have gotten a good return for him.

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06-08-2012, 12:19 PM
  #88
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Paul Martin was a quasi-bust. Was supposed to be a very good offensive defenseman but showed little offensive game. His saving grace was his mobility in the new NHL and his good first pass out of the D-zone. Not sure what happened to him in PITT but he must be slowed by injuries, which he is notoriously slow to come back from.

5 million a year for him is 2.5 million too much. At least!

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06-08-2012, 12:20 PM
  #89
joestevens29
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Originally Posted by Vujtek View Post
Campbell was coming off equally poor season as Martin. A big difference is that he had two more years in his contract and at over 2 million per year more. Campbell was the highest paid D-man in the league at that point! Also you had replaced your GM since signing that contract. Totally different situations. If you had Campbell at 5.5 million per for 3 years, you could have gotten a good return for him.
You know what the difference really was? Tallon had to spend some money and loves to take players when they are that their lowest value.

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06-08-2012, 12:20 PM
  #90
digdug41982
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Originally Posted by Vujtek View Post
Campbell was coming off equally poor season as Martin. A big difference is that he had two more years in his contract and at over 2 million per year more. Campbell was the highest paid D-man in the league at that point! Also you had replaced your GM since signing that contract. Totally different situations. If you had Campbell at 5.5 million per for 3 years, you could have gotten a good return for him.
Are you ****ing kidding me, Campbell was our best or 2nd best D-man last year depending on who you talk to. He played really well. He's better than Martin, that's why he's paid more. I understand that had to do with us taking back Olesz but I'm not suggesting you guys will have to take back and Olesz type, just that you will get nothing back.

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06-08-2012, 12:21 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by GentlemanOfLeisure View Post
5 million a year for him is 2.5 million too much. At least!
So you're saying Martin isn't even worth 2.5 million per year?

Gotta love HFBoards. No clue whatsoever.

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06-08-2012, 12:21 PM
  #92
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Embarrasment of riches? Your defense got lit up like a x-mas tree in the first round. I wouldn't be bragging about having a lot of good options, because you would've used them to stop the bleeding.
Yeah, because you can draw better conclusions from a bad week and a half and four bad games than from the rest of the year where most were ready to gve the Pens' the cup and they only lost something like three games out of thirty towards the end of the year.

As for the defensive riches, combined the defensemen on the Pens, and what they have in the minors, means that fairly soon players who could play in the NHL will be forced to remain in the minors. Despres, Harrington, Morrow, and several others. On the Pens, the core is only a year removed from being a top five defense in the NHL, and only fell to the middle of the pack.

So yeah, I stand by what I said, and why Martin MIGHT be shopped.

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06-08-2012, 12:22 PM
  #93
Vujtek
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Originally Posted by coldsteelonice84 View Post
Are you ****ing kidding me, Campbell was our best or 2nd best D-man last year depending on who you talk to. He played really well. He's better than Martin, that's why he's paid more. I understand that had to do with us taking back Olesz but I'm not suggesting you guys will have to take back and Olesz type, just that you will get nothing back.
I read a lot of negatives about Campbell from Hawks fans the season before he got traded. It's not like Martin was our worst or even second or third worst D-man this year either - though some may think so.

He's not 2 million per year better than Martin. Well this year he was but not a year ago.

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06-08-2012, 12:22 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by GentlemanOfLeisure View Post
5 million a year for him is 2.5 million too much. At least!
Your valuation of top 4 D-men isnt very good.

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06-08-2012, 12:24 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by coldsteelonice84 View Post
A question is not an answer to a question.
The indirect answer was that Pens have more options than Hawks had. They are neither up against the cap nor do they have no other options, should players have to be moved for cap space eventually.

Hawks also moved Campbell at the draft. Martin will be returning less, if Pens had to get him dumped early before FA.

Also in hindsight, that trade does not look half bad for Florida, while Hawks subsequently did diddly squat with the cap space.

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06-08-2012, 12:30 PM
  #96
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Ottawa would probably take him - emphasis on take though. Filatov straight up, pretty sure Murray wouldn't offer up any real assets to relieve the Pens of the contract/cap hit.

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06-08-2012, 12:34 PM
  #97
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I could see the Oilers being interested, depending on the price and if they can make any UFA signings. I think Martin has more value than what HF seems to think though, and I don't know if Tambellini would pay the price that Shero will set. I'm not sure if Martin waives his no trade clause either.

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06-08-2012, 12:35 PM
  #98
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Martin might be a million overpaid but that's about it. I don't think injuries have slowed him much. He just makes a few too many mental mistakes in our system. He can't seem to figure it out for whatever reason. I'm sure there are systems that could play to his strengths better and cover up some of his weaknesses.

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06-08-2012, 12:35 PM
  #99
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I think the Oilers would be interested.

If you dont want players back just prospects and picks Omark, Martindale and a 2nd or Omark, Hamilton and a 3rd.

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06-08-2012, 12:36 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by kratzbuerste View Post
The indirect answer was that Pens have more options than Hawks had. They are neither up against the cap nor do they have no other options, should players have to be moved for cap space eventually.

Hawks also moved Campbell at the draft. Martin will be returning less, if Pens had to get him dumped early before FA.

Also in hindsight, that trade does not look half bad for Florida, while Hawks subsequently did diddly squat with the cap space.
Yeah if you count extending Sharp and Seabrook as "diddly squat"

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