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11-25-2003, 05:03 PM
  #1
rabi_sultan
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Hey Brynster

can you please put speeds, momentai and the rest of the board out of their misery and wonder and please ask MacT/Lowe wots up with the Semenov situation and wouldn't he be better spending time in the AHL if he is to get no NHL games with the club?


Can you ask them that question sometime soon on ur show? Thanks.

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11-25-2003, 07:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rabi_sultan
can you please put speeds, momentai and the rest of the board out of their misery and wonder and please ask MacT/Lowe wots up with the Semenov situation and wouldn't he be better spending time in the AHL if he is to get no NHL games with the club?


Can you ask them that question sometime soon on ur show? Thanks.

Done. I'll do that when they get back. I'll see them Friday morning.

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11-25-2003, 07:31 PM
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rabi_sultan
can you please put speeds, momentai and the rest of the board out of their misery and wonder and please ask MacT/Lowe wots up with the Semenov situation and wouldn't he be better spending time in the AHL if he is to get no NHL games with the club?


Can you ask them that question sometime soon on ur show? Thanks.
Somebody has to be the 7th d-man. What would the Oilers do if he were sent down? Bring up Lynch and let him sit and watch from the pressbox. It is the reality of the situation. Unfortunately for Semenov, Bergeron keeps piling points and playing well. I would like to see him in the lineup as well but at the present time their is no room. Like I said someone has to be the extra.

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11-25-2003, 07:32 PM
  #4
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Originally Posted by Walsher
Somebody has to be the 7th d-man. What would the Oilers do if he were sent down? Bring up Lynch and let him sit and watch from the pressbox. It is the reality of the situation. Unfortunately for Semenov, Bergeron keeps piling points and playing well. I would like to see him in the lineup as well but at the present time their is no room. Like I said someone has to be the extra.
And, as many have said, including myself for a long while now, that guy is Scott Ferguson.

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11-25-2003, 07:36 PM
  #5
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Originally Posted by LoudmouthHemskyfan#1
And, as many have said, including myself for a long while now, that guy is Scott Ferguson.
Why? Everyone on here rips Ferguson and my question is why? He is well on the plus side of +/- while playing with a rookie offensive defenseman in Bergeron. He is cheap, dependable, simple, and effective even though graced with minimal talent and speed. Moreover, he has experience as limited as it may be. As long as Fergurson is contributing to the cause he will always have a spot. He is the perfect 6th d-man. Low maintenance, invisible and effective. Until Semenov is ready to make the jump up to a top 4 guy he will probably watch a lot of games.

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11-25-2003, 07:40 PM
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But Semenov has the potential to be a top 2 defensemen in this league. He might have more potential than Brewer. The only way he will improve though is by playing. What do the Oilers gain by sitting him and playing Ferguson.

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11-25-2003, 07:44 PM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walsher
Why? Everyone on here rips Ferguson and my question is why? He is well on the plus side of +/- while playing with a rookie offensive defenseman in Bergeron. He is cheap, dependable, simple, and effective even though graced with minimal talent and speed. Moreover, he has experience as limited as it may be. As long as Fergurson is contributing to the cause he will always have a spot. He is the perfect 6th d-man. Low maintenance, invisible and effective. Until Semenov is ready to make the jump up to a top 4 guy he will probably watch a lot of games.
He's a perfect #7, not #6. He's reliable, and steady, but slow, not very talented, and not exceptional positionally. He is NOT one of those guys who makes the little intricate plays that people who haven't played defence don't notice ala Cory Cross. Cross is what alot of people describe Ferguson as, undeniably steady and reliable, knows his positioning quite well, and simply gets the job done. Ferguson is not as good at being that guy, and is not good enough at being that guy to justify him ahead of Semenov. Semenov is a better hockey player. Period. And he should be in the lineup.

I don't get statements like "Until Semenov is ready to make the jump up to a top 4 guy he will probably watch a lot of games" Why should he? You should have your best hockey players playing, it's really that simple.

His +/- is largely because of Bergeron, not in spite of him, as has been pointed out statistically and through observation.

It's not about being good enough, it's about being as good as possible. And I think most would agree that putting Semenov in is a step in that direction.

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11-25-2003, 07:47 PM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elphy101
But Semenov has the potential to be a top 2 defensemen in this league. He might have more potential than Brewer. The only way he will improve though is by playing. What do the Oilers gain by sitting him and playing Ferguson.

The gain the experience and knowledge of a guy that is and will always be a 6th d-man. Semenov can't develop in that role. He hasn't proven his stuff to the coaches yet or he would be a regular. They think he needs to learn through watching and practicing. The last thing we need is to have him struggle in game situations with a rookie offensive d-man like Bergeron. You need a ferguson to stay at home and take defensive responsibility. Why do you think the Oilers coaches and management love Ferguson? Start with Lowe and Huddy to of the most defensive d-men you will find. They recognize the need to have a guy like this. If Semenov had proven his worth - without a shadow of a doubt to the men in charge he would be playing full time. He struggled in camp and had his position taken. Tough breaks but until someone falters he blew his chance.

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11-25-2003, 07:52 PM
  #9
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Originally Posted by Walsher
Until Semenov is ready to make the jump up to a top 4 guy he will probably watch a lot of games.
He made it last year. I think his 40+ games of dependable service speaks volumes as to his ability to "be ready to jump to a top 4 guy". Heck, for most of the season while he was playing, he was at least our 3rd best dman if not 2nd. This is what I don't get. He has paid his dues by working his butt off all last season and he gets benched... NOW. It doesn't make any sense. If they were unhappy with his current style of play, they would have talked to him about it last season... not now. The timing of it boggles the mind, really.

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11-25-2003, 07:58 PM
  #10
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Originally Posted by momentai
He made it last year. I think his 40+ games of dependable service speaks volumes as to his ability to "be ready to jump to a top 4 guy". Heck, for most of the season while he was playing, he was at least our 3rd best dman if not 2nd. This is what I don't get. He has paid his dues by working his butt off all last season and he gets benched... NOW. It doesn't make any sense. If they were unhappy with his current style of play, they would have talked to him about it last season... not now. The timing of it boggles the mind, really.

I agree 100% that he was awesome last year. And frankly I have wondered why he has sat this year - but the fact remains the coaches were extremely dissapointed with him at camp this year and he was close to being sent to TO. He hasn't played with the confidence and poise of that same guy last year and thus he hasn't been rewarded with ice. Bergeron has added something to the cause. He brings that offensive puck moving d-man that has been missing since the Niniimaa deal. Bottom line Semenov hasn't earned his spot to the coaches even though he was solid last season. Frankly, don't think any of the other defenseman have played poorly enough to warrant a seat in the pressbox. Maybe I'm mistaken but they just haven't. This league is very what have you done for me lately, for Semenov the answer is not much.

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11-25-2003, 08:19 PM
  #11
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Originally Posted by Walsher
I agree 100% that he was awesome last year. And frankly I have wondered why he has sat this year - but the fact remains the coaches were extremely dissapointed with him at camp this year and he was close to being sent to TO. He hasn't played with the confidence and poise of that same guy last year and thus he hasn't been rewarded with ice. Bergeron has added something to the cause. He brings that offensive puck moving d-man that has been missing since the Niniimaa deal. Bottom line Semenov hasn't earned his spot to the coaches even though he was solid last season. Frankly, don't think any of the other defenseman have played poorly enough to warrant a seat in the pressbox. Maybe I'm mistaken but they just haven't. This league is very what have you done for me lately, for Semenov the answer is not much.
Being disappointed at camp or not... Ferguson did not have that much better of a camp than he did either. Heck, Brewer didn't really impress anyone earlier in the year and yet the Oilers stuck by him through his struggles. The same cannot be said for Semenov and I wonder why...

This isn't about Bergeron vs Semenov here. I fully agree that Bergeron needs to stay in the lineup as he has played great. This is about LOYALTY. Something the Oilers preach every day to their players as an organization. They've stuck by Brewer during his struggles, Ryan Smyth with his last season and this season, Horcoff now, etc. And yet, they do not seem willing to show the same in this situation. If this is a team that rewards the kind of attitude "What have you done for me lately." That sure goes against some of my other examples.

As for Semenov, he's broken up 3 two-on-one's this year covering for Ferguson and his untimely pinches in his 6 games. He did that countless number of times last season as well. During his 6 games, he's averaged 18 minutes a night... Ferguson averages 14... Now which do you think would be more beneficial to the team to lessen the load on one Steve Staios. The way they are playing him early on, I wouldn't be surprised to see him a little more than burned out by the end of the year.

Now, I don't want to bag on Ferguson because I like him. However, he does have major flaws... and you see them every time he is on the ice.

1) His speed and positioning are poor
2) His untimely pinches
3) His uncanny ability to give the puck up along the boards. Watch it... when he gets pressured, the puck is turned over more often times than not.

And yet, you have a young dman (who is stagnating by the minute) sitting in the pressbox who is capable of playing 20 minutes a night and already 18 per night this season solidly.... Look, if we don't want to play him... send him Toronto or something. Do not leave him in the pressbox to languish away his timing and NHL physical and mental shape. He's young and NEEDS time to play whether it be in the NHL or AHL. It does him absolutely no good to sit in the pressbox every night.

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11-25-2003, 08:37 PM
  #12
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Originally Posted by momentai
Being disappointed at camp or not... Ferguson did not have that much better of a camp than he did either. Heck, Brewer didn't really impress anyone earlier in the year and yet the Oilers stuck by him through his struggles. The same cannot be said for Semenov and I wonder why...

This isn't about Bergeron vs Semenov here. I fully agree that Bergeron needs to stay in the lineup as he has played great. This is about LOYALTY. Something the Oilers preach every day to their players as an organization. They've stuck by Brewer during his struggles, Ryan Smyth with his last season and this season, Horcoff now, etc. And yet, they do not seem willing to show the same in this situation. If this is a team that rewards the kind of attitude "What have you done for me lately." That sure goes against some of my other examples.

As for Semenov, he's broken up 3 two-on-one's this year covering for Ferguson and his untimely pinches in his 6 games. He did that countless number of times last season as well. During his 6 games, he's averaged 18 minutes a night... Ferguson averages 14... Now which do you think would be more beneficial to the team to lessen the load on one Steve Staios. The way they are playing him early on, I wouldn't be surprised to see him a little more than burned out by the end of the year.

Now, I don't want to bag on Ferguson because I like him. However, he does have major flaws... and you see them every time he is on the ice.

1) His speed and positioning are poor
2) His untimely pinches
3) His uncanny ability to give the puck up along the boards. Watch it... when he gets pressured, the puck is turned over more often times than not.

And yet, you have a young dman (who is stagnating by the minute) sitting in the pressbox who is capable of playing 20 minutes a night and already 18 per night this season solidly.... Look, if we don't want to play him... send him Toronto or something. Do not leave him in the pressbox to languish away his timing and NHL physical and mental shape. He's young and NEEDS time to play whether it be in the NHL or AHL. It does him absolutely no good to sit in the pressbox every night.
I agree with much of your post. If you have seen any of my Smyth posts I am sure you can understand where I stand on those issues. As for Brewer up until the last few games I have maintained he has been the biggest dissapointment and his play filled with minbd boggling mistakes. Semenov has the ability to be a top 3-4 guy. But the fact remains something has to be missing for him to be sitting. Trust me I have been very critical of Fergy - like everyone else I had him penciled out of the top 6 and with Semenov is at least the top 4. But you have to agreee that something has to be happening that we don't know about to keep him out of the lineup - something greater than any loyalty issue. Maybe it was the weight issue coupled with the physical play issue combined leaving the coaches with a sour taste in their mouth. Personally, as for the physical play it should be a non issue. Lidstrom isn't physical yet he is the best year after year. At this time in the season - how can the coaches justify taking another guy out of the lineup in favour of Semenov? Agreed he should be in but where and how? I know he is more talented and has more upside but the way everyone is playing it just can't happen. I am sure he will get his chance - and I would put my money on him being that top 4 guy by the end of season, but at this point the other guys have earned their spots. Loyalty is a big issue. The coaches have confidence in different guys. Up until now all of those guys have responded IMO other than some of the"stars" like Brewer and Smyth and we all know those guys wioll never see pressbox. Semenovs time will come again - he will not stagnate, he will not lose talent, he will be hungrier and more desperate to stay. It is that inter team conpetition that is so good. Just like when Salo comes back - he will have to earn his spot again also.

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11-26-2003, 01:37 AM
  #13
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The only thing I can think of is that they threw him off the deep end too early last year, and are trying to bring him along slowly, like they did with Hemsky last year. A few games in, then a few out to learn from everybody else. I hope so, anyway. I really like him, and would hate to see him fall out of favour and either not develop, or end up somewhere else.

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11-26-2003, 05:20 AM
  #14
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Just a thought, but maybe its a good thing to have a depth problem on the point. It sure beats only having 4 or 5 guys capable of playing there.
As long as Fergy is decent, they can take there time with Semenov, it seemed like it took forever for Chara to gain his form, but look at him now. So for whatever reason semenov isn't playing, i'm sure its good.

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11-26-2003, 05:27 AM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walsher
Why? Everyone on here rips Ferguson and my question is why? He is well on the plus side of +/- while playing with a rookie offensive defenseman in Bergeron. He is cheap, dependable, simple, and effective even though graced with minimal talent and speed. Moreover, he has experience as limited as it may be. As long as Fergurson is contributing to the cause he will always have a spot. He is the perfect 6th d-man. Low maintenance, invisible and effective. Until Semenov is ready to make the jump up to a top 4 guy he will probably watch a lot of games.
Good post, I am also one of the few that doesn't mind Ferguson in the line up. Too me he is as steady a defenceman as we got and he is playing in the role he is suited for.

I also agree with all the guys that would like to see Semenov in the line up. This guy is capable of being a fixture on our blue line for a long time and the sooner he is in the line up the better but the the problem I see is more with Cross than Ferguson.

I am quick to say that I am an unabashed Lowe supporter and most of the moves he has made, I have liked but the Cross signing was the one that made me raise an eyebrow. Here is why.

If Semenov was in the line up at the same time as Bergeron then I think it's safe to say that you don't play the two as a pair. That moves one of the guys up to the #4 spot and pushes Cross down to the #6 spot. Now as far as #6 defencemen go I don't see huge difference between Cross and Ferguson. The biggest difference between the two is that Cross has the experience to log the extra minutes and makes quite abit more money. Once his time is cut, as in the moving him to #6, I think there is very little to choose between them.

By Lowe signing Cross, he created a bit of a log jam at the bottom pairing when he didn't need to. Obviously at the salary Cross is making you don't take him out of the line up over Ferguson and further to that you most likely don't cut his minutes. That in my opinion creates the problem with Semenov. Can't play him with Bergeron and can't move Cross down and still get value for your dollar and all of a sudden either Semenov or Bergeron are the odd men out.

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11-26-2003, 06:09 AM
  #16
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Originally Posted by Walsher
But the fact remains something has to be missing for him to be sitting. Trust me I have been very critical of Fergy - like everyone else I had him penciled out of the top 6 and with Semenov is at least the top 4. But you have to agreee that something has to be happening that we don't know about to keep him out of the lineup - something greater than any loyalty issue.
Something must be happening... I just hope that it is NOT the organization adhering to veterans first and foremost and hindering the youth in the process. If that is so, with the direction that Lowe is sending to develop this team for a legitimate cup run in a few years with our current youth, he's certainly sending a mixed signal to say the least.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Walsher
Personally, as for the physical play it should be a non issue. Lidstrom isn't physical yet he is the best year after year. At this time in the season - how can the coaches justify taking another guy out of the lineup in favour of Semenov?
Well, what alarms me the most is whenever MacT has been questioned on the situation, his response has always been that Semenov has not been playing physical enough for his size. It shouldn't really be as big an issue as it is... yet that point consistently is brought up. It would not surprise me at all to hear from MacT/Lowe say the exact same thing when Bryn asks. Something along the lines of... "He's still a young player and learning. He's going to have his ups and downs. Right now he needs to work on being more physical. " A bit of a copout that doesn't really answer our questions... but this is what I think the Oilers are going to respond with. Let's hope they surprise me.

Look. The point of the matter is this. If you are not going to play Alexei in the NHL, you have to get him some playing time on the ice somewhere else. For a young dman to be sitting in the pressbox... that is inherently ludicrous. It's just as bad as having Stoll sit in the pressbox at the beginning of the season. We are a bit lucky in a way that the Reasoner injury forced the Oil into playing him or he might still be there...

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11-26-2003, 06:22 AM
  #17
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Originally Posted by momentai
Something must be happening... I just hope that it is NOT the organization adhering to veterans first and foremost and hindering the youth in the process. If that is so, with the direction that Lowe is sending to develop this team for a legitimate cup run in a few years with our current youth, he's certainly sending a mixed signal to say the least.



Well, what alarms me the most is whenever MacT has been questioned on the situation, his response has always been that Semenov has not been playing physical enough for his size. It shouldn't really be as big an issue as it is... yet that point consistently is brought up. It would not surprise me at all to hear from MacT/Lowe say the exact same thing when Bryn asks. Something along the lines of... "He's still a young player and learning. He's going to have his ups and downs. Right now he needs to work on being more physical. " A bit of a copout that doesn't really answer our questions... but this is what I think the Oilers are going to respond with. Let's hope they surprise me.

Look. The point of the matter is this. If you are not going to play Alexei in the NHL, you have to get him some playing time on the ice somewhere else. For a young dman to be sitting in the pressbox... that is inherently ludicrous. It's just as bad as having Stoll sit in the pressbox at the beginning of the season. We are a bit lucky in a way that the Reasoner injury forced the Oil into playing him or he might still be there...
and to me that is why the Suns rumour of Vishnesvki makes sense. He is a great hitter and plays very physical, which the Oilers need.

The other rumour by Brynster IMO is missing something and this makes more sense.

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11-26-2003, 06:30 AM
  #18
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The other rumour by Brynster IMO is missing something and this makes more sense.
It better be. If all we can get for Comrie is Perry and a second rounder... there's going to be a public uproar in Edmonton for sure.

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11-26-2003, 07:50 AM
  #19
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It better be. If all we can get for Comrie is Perry and a second rounder... there's going to be a public uproar in Edmonton for sure.
I wouldn't be against a Comrie and Fergy for Perry, Vish, and 1st/2nd deal.

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11-26-2003, 08:16 AM
  #20
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I am as confused as anybody about why Semenov is not in the lineup. My optimistic side says that it is because they think they have a huge talent but cannot get him to play they way they want him to play - the way that will make him a Chara clone. But he is still young and Scott "he shoots it into the corner" Ferguson is barely adequate while they try to get him to change his game to the one they want to see.

Play physical you get another game but if you don't you sit. To me this kid just has too much natural talent to be out of the lineup because Ferguson is playing better than him. It doesn't make sense. Especially considering our dismal ga average right now. Remember MacTavish and Lowe at the beginning of the season and their 'we have to get back to playing good defence' speech? Where did that go?

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11-26-2003, 08:18 AM
  #21
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is it possible that they consider our nhl coaches (huddy) to be more capable of teaching semenov than playing in the minors? They also could be afraid that his psyche could be damaged from a demotion.

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11-26-2003, 10:35 AM
  #22
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Originally Posted by speeds
I wouldn't be against a Comrie and Fergy for Perry, Vish, and 1st/2nd deal.
Neither would I. However, what if instead of Ferguson the Oilers and Kevin Lowe substitute Alexei Semenov there? Wait. I don't even want to think about it.

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11-26-2003, 11:51 AM
  #23
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Vishnevski may be a good return in a Comrie trade, but man, is he ugly. Visnevski and Cross together would form one of the ugliest defensive pairs in the league.

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11-26-2003, 11:54 AM
  #24
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Originally Posted by jofa
Vishnevski may be a good return in a Comrie trade, but man, is he ugly. Visnevski and Cross together would form one of the ugliest defensive pairs in the league.
no...anyone paired with Rocky Thompson will be the ugliest.

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11-26-2003, 12:01 PM
  #25
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Vishnevski may be a good return in a Comrie trade, but man, is he ugly. Visnevski and Cross together would form one of the ugliest defensive pairs in the league.
and

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