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The Good, the Bad, and the Matt Carle

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Old
06-08-2012, 03:29 PM
  #51
tuckrr
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Originally Posted by achdumeingute View Post
What is this factual information...
you'd be pretty surprised with how well his points production is (especially in advanced statistics)

from the oppositions point of view, carle looks pretty good. From our side of the fence, we see turnovers.

im not sure if its bias or just perspective..probably some of both.

edit:
and im not AT ALL a "carle fan"
but i do respect our management, and I try to appreciate the pieces we have.

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06-08-2012, 03:33 PM
  #52
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The amount of times it has to be said that Carle is nothing more than a good 4# is crazy. He can't control his own end, he makes terrible passes.

Sure he eats minutes, but he's freaking terrible in those minutes. Oh and for all those amazing 40 points he scored, how many goals did he set up on the powerplay. How many of those are secondary assists. Guy is a fraud.

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06-08-2012, 03:38 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
The amount of times it has to be said that Carle is nothing more than a good 4# is crazy. He can't control his own end, he makes terrible passes.

Sure he eats minutes, but he's freaking terrible in those minutes. Oh and for all those amazing 40 points he scored, how many goals did he set up on the powerplay. How many of those are secondary assists. Guy is a fraud.
Yes, that's exactly why he plays over 20 minutes a game. And why the Flyers want to re-sign him. Because he is what you say he is. LOL

You don't even have to know a dam thing about the game of Hockey to refute this. All you need is some simple common sense.

Obviously you have a clear bias towards the player that prevents you from making a credible analysis of him as a player.

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06-08-2012, 03:40 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VanSciver View Post
No the problem is that the Carle haters want to continually try and change the game and come up with some other method of rating him as a player, that has no factual basis. In order to try and justify their unjustified hate for the player. There is plenty of factual information out that there that Carle supporters use to back up their opinion. Regardless of what the number say, you'll try and find some way to spin it to try and discredit Carle. And fail each time. Carle is a very good player. And that's why the Flyers want to re-sign him.
No, not really. People have been saying the exact same things about Carle for years. Soft defense, makes irresponsible decisions, can't hack it on a first line, bad PP QB, no shot, won't clear the crease, won't take the body along the boards/let's guys just skate by, etc.

People have had to continuously find different ways to present these criticisms to you because you utterly refuse to accept them. The core message has remained the same.

Also, I would never call Carle "very good." Timonen is very good. Carle is adequate; I don't believe this team overpay precious cap dollars for adequacy.

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06-08-2012, 03:43 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Fish Invictus View Post
No, not really. People have been saying the exact same things about Carle for years. Soft defense, makes irresponsible decisions, can't hack it on a first line, bad PP QB, no shot, won't clear the crease, won't take the body along the boards/let's guys just skate by, etc.

People have had to continuously find different ways to present these criticisms to you because you utterly refuse to accept them. The core message has remained the same.
theres certainly a good side and a bad side. but for 99% of players, thats the case...pros and cons. (not shelley, hes amazing in everything!)

lets say Suter signs in detroit, and carle signs in san jose. Pronger is done, and kimmo plays his worst year.

how far in the playoffs will we go?

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06-08-2012, 03:44 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tuckrr View Post
theres certainly a good side and a bad side. but for 99% of players, thats the case...pros and cons. (not shelley, hes amazing in everything!)

lets say Suter signs in detroit, and carle signs in san jose. Pronger is done, and kimmo plays his worst year.

how far in the playoffs will we go?


We aren't going to miss Carle's playoff performances.

Edit: Here, let's re-watch Carle doing his best "I'm not touching you. I'm not touching you" performance as he refuses to initiate any sort of physical contact with Crosby and ineffectively tries to reach around with his stick:



Carle just gifts the inside of the ice to Crosby.


Last edited by Beef Invictus: 06-08-2012 at 03:51 PM.
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Old
06-08-2012, 03:46 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Fish Invictus View Post


We aren't going to miss Carle's playoff performances.
hell, lets say kimmo gets injured:

Coburn-meszaros?
grossmann-MAB
Gustafsson-??

Lets not go down this road please.


Homer is doing the safe thing in paying around 4.5 for a defender he already knows who fits in the "pond hockey" system.

Things could be much MUCH worse.

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06-08-2012, 03:48 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Fish Invictus View Post
No, not really. People have been saying the exact same things about Carle for years. Soft defense, makes irresponsible decisions, can't hack it on a first line, bad PP QB, no shot, won't clear the crease, won't take the body along the boards/let's guys just skate by, etc.

People have had to continuously find different ways to present these criticisms to you because you utterly refuse to accept them. The core message has remained the same.

Also, I would never call Carle "very good." Timonen is very good. Carle is adequate; I don't believe this team overpay precious cap dollars for adequacy.
Your right, people have been saying the exact same things about Carle for years. But then you have to look at which people are saying what your saying. NHL analysts? NHL GM"s? NHL bloggers who cover the sport? As always, same old same old. Show me one credible source that cover the Flyers, that says the same thing that the "people" say about Carle? Why would I as a fan, accept unfounded criticisms of a player? You have to find different ways because the other ways have been proven inaccurate. Just as it will now. Do you want to do that all over again? I'm game if you are. We can look at all the factual information available for Carle all over again.

And yes, Carle is a very good player. That is clear. That's why the Flyers used him as they have. And why they want to re-sign him.

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06-08-2012, 03:51 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish Invictus View Post


We aren't going to miss Carle's playoff performances.

Edit: Here, let's re-watch Carle doing his best "I'm not touching you. I'm not touching you" performance as he refuses to initiate any sort of physical contact with Crosby and ineffectively tries to reach around with his stick:
Congratulations. You found a highlight video of Carle making a mistake. As all NHL defenseman do. If it was stated that Carle never makes a mistake. You might have a point with it. Should I now counter with a highlight video of Carle making a good defensive play?

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06-08-2012, 03:56 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VanSciver View Post
Congratulations. You found a highlight video of Carle making a mistake. As all NHL defenseman do. If it was stated that Carle never makes a mistake. You might have a point with it. Should I now counter with a highlight video of Carle making a good defensive play?
I just showed you a video of Carle doing several of the things you claim he doesn't do. Poor positioning, weak and complacent defense, no physical aggression. These are things he does all the time. We aren't just making this up or imagining it because we all got together and decided it would be fun to do. These are things we've noticed are par for the course after watching Carle over the course of many games. These are things which stats don't show, so good luck disproving it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VanSciver View Post
Your right, people have been saying the exact same things about Carle for years. But then you have to look at which people are saying what your saying. NHL analysts? NHL GM"s? NHL bloggers who cover the sport? As always, same old same old. Show me one credible source that cover the Flyers, that says the same thing that the "people" say about Carle? Why would I as a fan, accept unfounded criticisms of a player? You have to find different ways because the other ways have been proven inaccurate. Just as it will now. Do you want to do that all over again? I'm game if you are. We can look at all the factual information available for Carle all over again.

And yes, Carle is a very good player. That is clear. That's why the Flyers used him as they have. And why they want to re-sign him.
As has been stated, blogs and analysts are only opinions. They aren't gospel.

The Flyers used Carle as they did because he was all they had and there was no other alternative, especially with Mez and Timonen injured. Not because he is a phenom.

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06-08-2012, 04:02 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish Invictus View Post
I just showed you a video of Carle doing several of the things you claim he doesn't do. Poor positioning, weak and complacent defense, no physical aggression. These are things he does all the time. We aren't just making this up or imagining it because we all got together and decided it would be fun to do. These are things we've noticed are par for the course after watching Carle over the course of many games. These are things which stats don't show, so good luck disproving it.



As has been stated, blogs and analysts are only opinions. They aren't gospel.

The Flyers used Carle as they did because he was all they had and there was no other alternative, especially with Mez and Timonen injured. Not because he is a phenom.
what about my claim?

the reality of our teams situation is without carle, we're SOL on defense.

shall I pull up the "best" of gustafsson? of MAB? (let alone against crosby)

Carle's not a perfect player, he's got his flaws. But now you're just acting silly.

If we let Carle go, we will have lost:
Carle
Pronger
Timonen
(half our defense)
in 2 years, with nothing to show for it!

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06-08-2012, 04:03 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tuckrr View Post
what about my claim?

the reality of our teams situation is without carle, we're SOL on defense.

shall I pull up the "best" of gustafsson? of MAB? (let alone against crosby)

Carle's not a perfect player, he's got his flaws. But now you're just acting silly.

If we let Carle go, we will have lost:
Carle
Pronger
Timonen
(half our defense)
in the last 2 years, with nothing to show for it!
And if we have to overpay Carle to keep him he inhibits our ability to sign Suter.

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06-08-2012, 04:05 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish Invictus View Post
I just showed you a video of Carle doing several of the things you claim he doesn't do. Poor positioning, weak and complacent defense, no physical aggression. These are things he does all the time. We aren't just making this up or imagining it because we all got together and decided it would be fun to do. These are things we've noticed are par for the course after watching Carle over the course of many games. These are things which stats don't show, so good luck disproving it.
No, you showed me one play during the course of the Season and the playoffs. Carle player over 2,000 minutes of Hockey last year. And your going to show one highlight video and foolishly think it represents Carle as a player? You can find a video for every player in the League making a mistake. LOL Nobody, myself included, has ever said that Carle doesn't make a mistake or is a perfect player.
If those were things that he did on a regular basis, he's find himself on the bench or not playing at all. Instead of playing 23-25 minutes a game. I know that's all they had! LOL So the Flyers chose him to play more minutes then anybody on the team over the course of the entire Season, playoffs combined.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish Invictus View Post
As has been stated, blogs and analysts are only opinions. They aren't gospel.

The Flyers used Carle as they did because he was all they had and there was no other alternative, especially with Mez and Timonen injured. Not because he is a phenom.
If what you say is true about Carle, you'd be able to find one credible source to corroborate your opinion of Carle as a player. Why can't you do that? Why can't you find one credible source. Your telling me about all the people saying what they're saying! The only ones saying what your saying are the biased and the uninformed. The Flyers used Carle as they did because he's a very good player. And they have a choice now don't they? Nobody, myself included has called Carle a Phenom.

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06-08-2012, 04:06 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Fish Invictus View Post
And if we have to overpay Carle to keep him he inhibits our ability to sign Suter.
we're not getting Suter (most likely).
And you certainly don't roll the dice (your entire season) for a dream UFA like him.


edit:
if we do make progress on Suter, we would more likely trade someone (meszaros maybe) and sign him after the fact. We have to talk to him before we decide we can drop one of our big 3 (carle/coburn/mesz)

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06-08-2012, 04:07 PM
  #65
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I heard that if you watch a video showing a good Matt Carle defensive effort that you will die in 7 days.



Like that, but with Matt Carle.

Sorry I had to.


Last edited by Beef Invictus: 06-08-2012 at 04:09 PM. Reason: fixing YT
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06-08-2012, 04:08 PM
  #66
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we're not getting Suter (most likely).
And you certainly don't roll the dice (your entire season) for a dream UFA like him.
It also doesn't benefit the team to not even attempt to go for him. Signing Carle for anything more than 4.3-4.5 probably takes them out of any realistic running for Suter. Sure, it might be unlikely we get him...but we really need to at least try.

Edit: I see your edit now. I'd much prefer Mez at 4mil than Carle at 5+, if Carle is commanding that much.

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06-08-2012, 04:09 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Fish Invictus View Post
It also doesn't benefit the team to not even attempt to go for him. Signing Carle for anything more than 4.3-4.5 probably takes them out of any realistic running for Suter. Sure, it might be unlikely we get him...but we really need to at least try.
It doesn't take them out of it. But If they're going to get Suter. I would not re-sign Carle. Both are similar players.

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06-08-2012, 04:12 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by dbr2 View Post
Ladies and gentlemen. Matt Carle.

http://www.csnphilly.com/blog/flyers...video_lightbox

Terrible. Just watch the video.
LOL, yea lets wrap this guy up for 5 more years..

HAHAHA!!!

godam Matt Carle suks.. that play is laffable BAD.

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06-08-2012, 04:13 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Fish Invictus View Post
It also doesn't benefit the team to not even attempt to go for him. Signing Carle for anything more than 4.3-4.5 probably takes them out of any realistic running for Suter. Sure, it might be unlikely we get him...but we really need to at least try.

Edit: I see your edit now. I'd much prefer Mez at 4mil than Carle at 5+, if Carle is commanding that much.
IF Suter wants to play here, thats a great problem to have. You sign him, and move other pieces to make room.

WE WANT TO BEEF UP THE DEFENSE

not let defenders who say they'd like to resign at a discount leave.


like it or not, carle's not moving.

IF suter wants to come here, i'd rather let Jagr walk (and I ****ing love jagr)

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06-08-2012, 04:15 PM
  #70
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Yea, I understand that. I just have to wonder how much does Confirmation Bias come into play. I strongly believe at this point that people notice EVERYTHING Carle does because he is so hated. I'd wonder how much more Carle does that than the other guys (relative to how much they handle the puck).

I kind of want him to come back now so I can perform my own turnover logs throughout the course of the season haha.
thats EXACTLY it thou.. the reason people notice Carle doing it so much, is because he DOES..

other Flyers Dmen simply do not, sure they make errors, everyone does from time to time. but Carle has made a career out of doing it.

usualy at the worst possible time.

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06-08-2012, 04:16 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Fish Invictus View Post
It also doesn't benefit the team to not even attempt to go for him. Signing Carle for anything more than 4.3-4.5 probably takes them out of any realistic running for Suter. Sure, it might be unlikely we get him...but we really need to at least try.

Edit: I see your edit now. I'd much prefer Mez at 4mil than Carle at 5+, if Carle is commanding that much.
hey if it makes you feel better, we could
sign carle
call suter

a. Suter wants to join us! trade the **** out of carle.

b. Suter wants to go elsewhere (thank god we at least signed carle)

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06-08-2012, 04:18 PM
  #72
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from the other side of the fence:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMomZhFtmnI

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06-08-2012, 04:18 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by Flyerfan4life View Post
thats EXACTLY it thou.. the reason people notice Carle doing it so much, is because he DOES..

other Flyers Dmen simply do not, sure they make errors, everyone does from time to time. but Carle has made a career out of doing it.

usualy at the worst possible time.
And that's why Carle played more minutes last Season then any other player on the team. And that's why they want to re-sign him! LOL

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06-08-2012, 04:20 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by VanSciver View Post
Congratulations. You found a highlight video of Carle making a mistake. As all NHL defenseman do. If it was stated that Carle never makes a mistake. You might have a point with it. Should I now counter with a highlight video of Carle making a good defensive play?
a video ???

a video ???

DUDE, EVERY GAME HI-LITE reel will have similar footage of Carle being a R-tard..

you make it sound like carle never makes mistakes, hahaahah

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06-08-2012, 04:20 PM
  #75
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a video ???

a video ???

DUDE, EVERY GAME HI-LITE reel will have similar footage of Carle being a R-tard..

you make it sound like carle never makes mistakes, hahaahah
Quality analysis!

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