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06-08-2012, 04:21 PM
  #76
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Heres the one big thing. Seems that some of his supporters are stating that we just "randomly" started to hate on Matt Carle. Thats not true at all. Just seems that when Carle makes a bad play, its a BAD PLAY, usually leading to a goal. Us "haters" just didnt randomly wake up one morning and decided to hate Carle after eating breakfast.

Theres a reason why Carle is not in the same sentence as #1 defenders out there like Chara, Lindstrom, etc etc. It's because one makes more mistakes and just plain ISNT AS GOOD, as the others. If we go by the "all defenders make mistakes" then we can classify all defenders in the same skill level, which we can't. Just some are better than the rest.


All I know is, if Homer's idea of a solid offseason means going into next season WITH THE EXACT SAME DEFENSE, we are screwed.

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06-08-2012, 04:24 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
Heres the one big thing. Seems that some of his supporters are stating that we just "randomly" started to hate on Matt Carle. Thats not true at all. Just seems that when Carle makes a bad play, its a BAD PLAY, usually leading to a goal. Us "haters" just didnt randomly wake up one morning and decided to hate Carle after eating breakfast.

Theres a reason why Carle is not in the same sentence as #1 defenders out there like Chara, Lindstrom, etc etc. It's because one makes more mistakes and just plain ISNT AS GOOD, as the others.
Seriously. Carle is not in the same sentence as Chara and Lidstrom, etc, etc. because he isn't in their class. Find me one Carle supporter who thinks that Carle is as good as those players?

That statement is asinine.

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06-08-2012, 04:33 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
Heres the one big thing. Seems that some of his supporters are stating that we just "randomly" started to hate on Matt Carle. Thats not true at all. Just seems that when Carle makes a bad play, its a BAD PLAY, usually leading to a goal. Us "haters" just didnt randomly wake up one morning and decided to hate Carle after eating breakfast.

Theres a reason why Carle is not in the same sentence as #1 defenders out there like Chara, Lindstrom, etc etc. It's because one makes more mistakes and just plain ISNT AS GOOD, as the others. If we go by the "all defenders make mistakes" then we can classify all defenders in the same skill level, which we can't. Just some are better than the rest.


All I know is, if Homer's idea of a solid offseason means going into next season WITH THE EXACT SAME DEFENSE, we are screwed.
its not.

But what would you have him do? Let carle walk and put a stack of $5,000,000 on the ice instead?



...wait a second

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06-08-2012, 04:34 PM
  #79
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its not.

But what would you have him do? Let carle walk and put a stack of $5,000,000 on the ice instead?



...wait a second
If it's in 1s we should make it our backup goalie. It would probably take Bryz's job in a week and set an 82 game shutout record.

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06-08-2012, 04:37 PM
  #80
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If it's in 1s we should make it our backup goalie. It would probably take Bryz's job in a week and set an 82 game shutout record.
I ****in love the smiley banana


truth is TIMONEN is the problem with our defense right now. If we could expedite his retirement that'd be great, but unless that happens we need to just hold tight for a year.
Once we can resign kimmo to a reasonable # (or let him walk) we can pursue Weber...and make no mistake about it, we will PURSUE THE **** OUTTA HIM

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06-08-2012, 04:46 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by tuckrr View Post
its not.

But what would you have him do? Let carle walk and put a stack of $5,000,000 on the ice instead?



...wait a second
Its not? What is different?

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06-08-2012, 04:55 PM
  #82
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Its not? What is different?
well its a little early in the offseason to call it over wouldn't you say?

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06-08-2012, 05:22 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by VanSciver View Post
Whatever metric you want to use. Whether it's the Real Time scoring stats available on NHL.com. Or the advanced stats on behind the net. They all point to one thing. And that is that Carle is a very good defenseman.
Find me the stats that show how weak his shot is or how he doesn't lay out when he "shot blocks" or his general avoidance of physicality.

He gets lots of secondary assists...good for him.

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06-08-2012, 05:25 PM
  #84
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Find me the stats that show how weak his shot is or how he doesn't lay out when he "shot blocks" or his general avoidance of physicality.

He gets lots of secondary assists...good for him.
Carle does have a weak shot. That is a definite weakness in his game. Are you going to tell me that he doesn't block shots the correct way? So what does it matter how he blocks shots, as long as he does. And Carle is the top shot blocker on the team and one of the top shot blockers in the League.
Carle is not an overly physical player, and never will be. But he certainly doesn't avoid physical contact. And for a smaller defenseman, does quite well in the tough areas of the ice. Around the net and in the corners.

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06-08-2012, 05:27 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Fish Invictus View Post
I just showed you a video of Carle doing several of the things you claim he doesn't do. Poor positioning, weak and complacent defense, no physical aggression. These are things he does all the time. We aren't just making this up or imagining it because we all got together and decided it would be fun to do. These are things we've noticed are par for the course after watching Carle over the course of many games. These are things which stats don't show, so good luck disproving it.



As has been stated, blogs and analysts are only opinions. They aren't gospel.

The Flyers used Carle as they did because he was all they had and there was no other alternative, especially with Mez and Timonen injured. Not because he is a phenom.
Exactly.

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06-08-2012, 05:35 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
Heres the one big thing. Seems that some of his supporters are stating that we just "randomly" started to hate on Matt Carle. Thats not true at all. Just seems that when Carle makes a bad play, its a BAD PLAY, usually leading to a goal. Us "haters" just didnt randomly wake up one morning and decided to hate Carle after eating breakfast.

Theres a reason why Carle is not in the same sentence as #1 defenders out there like Chara, Lindstrom, etc etc. It's because one makes more mistakes and just plain ISNT AS GOOD, as the others. If we go by the "all defenders make mistakes" then we can classify all defenders in the same skill level, which we can't. Just some are better than the rest.


All I know is, if Homer's idea of a solid offseason means going into next season WITH THE EXACT SAME DEFENSE, we are screwed.
Heres a post of yours from a few months ago:

I think the real question is, do you overpay for Carle's offensive play or spend 1-2 mill less and get a defender that might or might not play as well.

Some UFA's out there are:

Kubina
Gleason
Boychuk
Garrison (might be a 1 year wonder, but dude looks solid)


Others here: http://capgeek.com/free_agents.php?y...D&fa_type_id=2 (EDIT: didnt see GKJ post. Oh well lol)


Yea, I do agree, that if you want the offensive ability, Carle is the best one out there besides Suter. But this is NOT a good thing. This means that teams that want an offensive defender will be willing to pay 6 mil or so for Carle. Honestly, I dont think he is close to worth it. Now if he signs for around the same money as Coburn, I'll be fine with that. Im not a hater of his or a fanboy, but I do agree that the other pickings are slim.

I think it is time to see if they think Gustafsson or even Bourdon are in their future or not. Gus is 23, and Bourdon is 22. It's becoming now or not with this team for them.



that thread is very insightful actually..

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1089137

seems like hfboards has a short term memory.

I bet carle signs for 4.25-4.7 I can live with that.

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06-08-2012, 05:47 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by VanSciver View Post
Carle does have a weak shot. That is a definite weakness in his game. Are you going to tell me that he doesn't block shots the correct way? So what does it matter how he blocks shots, as long as he does. And Carle is the top shot blocker on the team and one of the top shot blockers in the League.
Carle is not an overly physical player, and never will be. But he certainly doesn't avoid physical contact. And for a smaller defenseman, does quite well in the tough areas of the ice. Around the net and in the corners.
Carle is not a big contact initiator. For me, that's a requirement. He doesn't "play mean", a requirement.

I'm totally fine with him, for one year...for 6 mil even...for one year....

We don't need anymore long term bad cap hits on this team for players that are mediocre. He's our 4th/5th best D man at defense...he's probably #2 on offense...but our weakness is team defense...not scoring.

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06-08-2012, 05:51 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by achdumeingute View Post
Carle is not a big contact initiator. For me, that's a requirement. He doesn't "play mean", a requirement.

I'm totally fine with him, for one year...for 6 mil even...for one year....

We don't need anymore long term bad cap hits on this team for players that are mediocre. He's our 4th/5th best D man at defense...he's probably #2 on offense...but our weakness is team defense...not scoring.
1 year 6MILLION?!

that seems like the worst case scenario for us.

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06-08-2012, 06:05 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by achdumeingute View Post
Carle is not a big contact initiator. For me, that's a requirement. He doesn't "play mean", a requirement.

I'm totally fine with him, for one year...for 6 mil even...for one year....

We don't need anymore long term bad cap hits on this team for players that are mediocre. He's our 4th/5th best D man at defense...he's probably #2 on offense...but our weakness is team defense...not scoring.
Your right, Carle isn't a guy who initiates a lot of contact. Nor is he a mean player. But there have been a lot of really good defenseman over the years who also weren't that way. So I guess you wouldn't be okay with Nik Lidstrom!. Not that I am in any way comparing Carle to Lidstrom.

And I'm not okay with paying 6M to Carle regardless of how many years. Carle is not a 6M player.

And it's a good thing that Carle isn't a mediocre player. Wouldn't want that when/if the Flyers re-sign Carle.

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06-08-2012, 06:16 PM
  #90
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The NJ series was terrible, but the one positive thing I took out of it was it would be the last games for Carle in a Flyers uniform. Apparently not now...

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06-08-2012, 06:19 PM
  #91
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The NJ series was terrible, but the one positive thing I took out of it was it would be the last games for Carle in a Flyers uniform. Apparently not now...

I wish we could move him, and take the defense in a different direction. But a lot went wrong for us (see: Pronger, Timonen, Meszaros)
I see no alternatives for our management to pursue.

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06-08-2012, 06:19 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
Heres the one big thing. Seems that some of his supporters are stating that we just "randomly" started to hate on Matt Carle. Thats not true at all. Just seems that when Carle makes a bad play, its a BAD PLAY, usually leading to a goal. Us "haters" just didnt randomly wake up one morning and decided to hate Carle after eating breakfast.

Theres a reason why Carle is not in the same sentence as #1 defenders out there like Chara, Lindstrom, etc etc. It's because one makes more mistakes and just plain ISNT AS GOOD, as the others. If we go by the "all defenders make mistakes" then we can classify all defenders in the same skill level, which we can't. Just some are better than the rest.


All I know is, if Homer's idea of a solid offseason means going into next season WITH THE EXACT SAME DEFENSE, we are screwed.
get out of here with your crazy logic..

you cant be part of this discusion talking like a sane person..

you need to lead off with a laffing smiley face at least, haahaha..


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06-08-2012, 06:22 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by VanSciver View Post
Carle is not an overly physical player, and never will be. But he certainly doesn't avoid physical contact. And for a smaller defenseman, does quite well in the tough areas of the ice. Around the net and in the corners.
you know we are talking about #25 Matt Carle right ???

who are you discussing ?

cuz the matt Carle we all refer to is down right afraid of physical play !! he avoids the opposing players like they have rabies or something.. his idea of defense is to poke gingerly at opposing players with his stick, like you would a fresh turd.

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06-08-2012, 06:26 PM
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyerfan4life View Post
you know we are talking about #25 Matt Carle right ???

who are you discussing ?

cuz the matt Carle we all refer to is down right afraid of physical play !! he avoids the opposing players like they have rabies or something.. his idea of defense is to poke gingerly at opposing players with his stick, like you would a fresh turd.
You do strange things with your turds

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06-08-2012, 06:29 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by Flyerfan4life View Post
you know we are talking about #25 Matt Carle right ???

who are you discussing ?

cuz the matt Carle we all refer to is down right afraid of physical play !! he avoids the opposing players like they have rabies or something.. his idea of defense is to poke gingerly at opposing players with his stick, like you would a fresh turd.

Yep, that's why he plays 23-25 minutes a game. Because the Flyers Coaching staff wants a defenseman out there that much who is afraid of physical play and just pokes his stick around gingerly! LOL

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06-08-2012, 06:34 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by tuckrr View Post
Heres a post of yours from a few months ago:

I think the real question is, do you overpay for Carle's offensive play or spend 1-2 mill less and get a defender that might or might not play as well.

Some UFA's out there are:

Kubina
Gleason
Boychuk
Garrison (might be a 1 year wonder, but dude looks solid)


Others here: http://capgeek.com/free_agents.php?y...D&fa_type_id=2 (EDIT: didnt see GKJ post. Oh well lol)


Yea, I do agree, that if you want the offensive ability, Carle is the best one out there besides Suter. But this is NOT a good thing. This means that teams that want an offensive defender will be willing to pay 6 mil or so for Carle. Honestly, I dont think he is close to worth it. Now if he signs for around the same money as Coburn, I'll be fine with that. Im not a hater of his or a fanboy, but I do agree that the other pickings are slim.

I think it is time to see if they think Gustafsson or even Bourdon are in their future or not. Gus is 23, and Bourdon is 22. It's becoming now or not with this team for them.



that thread is very insightful actually..

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1089137

seems like hfboards has a short term memory.

I bet carle signs for 4.25-4.7 I can live with that.
I fail to understand the point? I still hold the same view as I did then. I just changed by view abit when i noticed Timonen slowing down abit and the defensive struggles we had. I realized that we need a true number 1. I dont see how anyone can disagree with that or even state that having 4 3-4 defenders is a good thing.

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06-08-2012, 06:42 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by Fish Invictus View Post
You do strange things with your turds
lol
best post of this thread easily.

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06-08-2012, 06:44 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
I fail to understand the point? I still hold the same view as I did then. I just changed by view abit when i noticed Timonen slowing down abit and the defensive struggles we had. I realized that we need a true number 1. I dont see how anyone can disagree with that or even state that having 4 3-4 defenders is a good thing.
you said you'd be fine with him @ around coburns price (which is exactly what he will get)

are you not fine?


I'd like a true #1 as well! can you please show me where we can get one?

Doughty? Weber?
They're not available right now.

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06-08-2012, 06:53 PM
  #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish Invictus View Post
Carle is the new Carter.
To be fair, Carle is a stand-up guy who has a record of doing a lot of nice things in the community. Carter is Carter.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Sh0otnSc0re View Post
It's not that I hate Matt Carle. It's that I don't think he's worth MORE than 4M per season. Also, I don't think he's an anchor to a top pairing.
Would you agree that there's some room in between there? I.e. you can be worth more than four million with out being a #1 guy?

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06-08-2012, 07:17 PM
  #100
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Have the Flyers seemingly shrinking chances of signing Suter (Lidstrom's retirement, rumors of Suter wanting to stay West, rumors of Jagr re-signing, etc.) affected anyone's opinion on whether they want to re-sign Carle or not?

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