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Yandle for Staal Rumour (via Eklund)

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06-08-2012, 08:39 PM
  #101
Sinurgy
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Originally Posted by BUX7PHX View Post
I guess in saying this, it represents two trains of thought.

#1: Yandle is a very polarizing player, to an extent. The fact that not one of the individuals had anything positive to say about him was interesting, and there are people on these boards who primarily love him. I am one of those who sees more negatives to his game, even going back further than this past season. As rt says, he has the ability to be Super Yandle, if it showed up more consistently (not even talking season to season or game to game here, sometimes it is shift to shift), then I would agree with most that he would not be traded. Sadly, I see OEL as already having bypassed Yandle, and Yandle will kind of hang around as someone that you hope will return theform he showed in 2010-11. He has the ability to do so, and if he does, I will eat my jersey.

#2: Being that he is a polarizing player, it makes sense to trade him at his peak before better instincts take over another front office. Let's say Yandle disappoints next year. Suddenly, both the number of teams that were interested in previous years and the price that we can ask for in return drops. Now, we face the prospect of seeing our best return from defense to get a forward as OEL and Gormley, two players who are legitimate top 10 draft picks with Norris hype from the time they were selected in the draft. Given that alternative, I'd rather take some growing pains now by trading Yandle and letting our system assist the younger guys before their talent takes over within the system.
Polarizing to you and to these random people you sit next too but I don't understand how that matters, at all.

Let's say Yandle doesn't disappoint next year and your Staal does, then what? You keep throwing out these complete negative hypotheticals while ignoring that the opposite outcome is just as likely, if not more so.

I still say Yandle stole your girl or something, seems like the most plausible explanation here.

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06-08-2012, 08:40 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by KevyD View Post
The only problem with that comparison is they do not play the same position. Neal plays Right Wing.
Again, Top Line Centers are few and far between. Staal falls under that category.
If the Coyotes don't give Pittsburgh a Top End D-Man for Staal, someone else will.
Staal hasn't even proven he's a top line center yet, in fact the majority of his time has been spent playing a 3rd line center. That's not to say he can't be a solid #1 center but that's still very much speculation.

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06-08-2012, 09:00 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Sinurgy View Post
Staal hasn't even proven he's a top line center yet, in fact the majority of his time has been spent playing a 3rd line center. That's not to say he can't be a solid #1 center but that's still very much speculation.
I feel he is worth it. Staal played only 62 games last year, played on every PK and did not play with the Penguins top wingers yet he still had 50 points including 25 goals. Pro-rated, over 82 games, that is 66+ points which would put him in the Top Dozen Centers last year.

Again, I would make the trade.


Last edited by KevyD: 06-08-2012 at 09:09 PM.
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Old
06-08-2012, 10:43 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by KevyD View Post
I feel he is worth it. Staal played only 62 games last year, played on every PK and did not play with the Penguins top wingers yet he still had 50 points including 25 goals. Pro-rated, over 82 games, that is 66+ points which would put him in the Top Dozen Centers last year.

Again, I would make the trade.
Well even if he is, you're still robbing Peter to pay Paul. I think maybe the fixation on obtaining a "#1" center is skewing your perspective a bit.

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06-09-2012, 01:04 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by hbk View Post
Yandle was left off the potential list of players by Burke and his cronies that picked the US team. Regardless on how Yandle improved that season because they left him off the summer list there was no chance he could have ever been selected.
This. It seemed like the consensus before the Olympics was Yandle should have been on the team, but it just wasn't possible at that point.


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Originally Posted by SniperHF View Post
Not overly related, but I think retaining Yandle would help send a message. Once you commit to the franchise it will take care of you. Especially in the case of OEL and Boedker. Guys who fit in and work well in the system. Because once this team has some money to spend they'll need to be an attractive destination. Who wouldn't want to come in as a top FA center with a great goalie and defense backing you up?
I agree with this. I don't like the message trading a young player who has committed to our franchise and is popular in the room would send.

Plus, unless Gormley and/or Rundblad can step in and have a big season, our defense really doesn't look that great if Yandle is gone.


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Originally Posted by KevyD View Post
Again...

Each team has to have at least one representative. The team/players often decide who to send from each team - what I meant by popularity.
If I'm remembering correctly, two years ago the Islanders and I think another team didn't have another player go to the All Star game.

Then the Red Wings just decided on their own to sit out.

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06-09-2012, 09:14 AM
  #106
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http://espn.go.com/blog/nhl/post/_/i...for-tim-thomas

Quote:
By Pierre LeBrun | ESPN.com: Keep an eye on the Carolina Hurricanes when it comes to how things play out on the Jordan Staal front with the Pittsburgh Penguins.

As I wrote recently, the Penguins' top priority is to sign Sidney Crosby and Staal to contract extensions this summer -- both centers are UFA-eligible on July 1, 2013 -- but if they can't get both done in a cap-sensible manner, it could open the door for Staal to be dealt.


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06-09-2012, 10:41 AM
  #107
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If Carolina is going to step up, expect the Pens to want Brandon Sutter and maybe the 8th pick and probably expand to include Tangradi and a few other players/prospects. Maybe the Coyotes can be a 3rd team in the dealings...

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06-09-2012, 10:54 AM
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinurgy View Post
Polarizing to you and to these random people you sit next too but I don't understand how that matters, at all.

Let's say Yandle doesn't disappoint next year and your Staal does, then what? You keep throwing out these complete negative hypotheticals while ignoring that the opposite outcome is just as likely, if not more so.

I still say Yandle stole your girl or something, seems like the most plausible explanation here.
Because he disagrees with you, you have to attack him? Why can't he offer his opinion without it becoming personal?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinurgy View Post
Well even if he is, you're still robbing Peter to pay Paul. I think maybe the fixation on obtaining a "#1" center is skewing your perspective a bit.
I am not fixated.

I have heard Coyote fans say they want/need a Top Line Center. The Topic of the thread is Staal for Yandle. I offered my opinion.
If the Coyotes want someone of Staal’s calibre, the price will be Yandle. If you feel it is not a need and you prefer keeping Yandle, good on you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shepard View Post
If I'm remembering correctly, two years ago the Islanders and I think another team didn't have another player go to the All Star game.

Then the Red Wings just decided on their own to sit out.
I did not look up the Islander issues (Taveres or Moulson were skilled enough to represent the team but perhaps injured) but the NHL tries to ensure every team has at least one rep at the game. Unless a player has been voted into the game by the fans, the teams and players decide internally. But yes, sometimes teams pass because of injuries or scheduling issues.


Last edited by KevyD: 06-09-2012 at 11:23 AM.
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Old
06-09-2012, 01:01 PM
  #109
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I guess we all need something to talk about, even it's completely baseless and will never happen...

A straight up Yandle / Staal swap is a tough call.

On one hand you've got a very good yet unbelievably soft offensive d-man who's shown serious commitment to your franchise and is arguably our first home-grown good story since Doan. According to his play last season, even if he doesn't bounce back his salary is only inflated by maybe 15-20%, far from an albatross.

One the other we have a center who might not have proven yet to be top-line quality on the top half teams would very probably be our best centerman. His style of play would fit our system. But it's a gamble. He could very well change his mind, hate Tippett, and bolt a year from now.

With OEL, Gormley and Rundblad coming up, I do believe that the trade would make a better team on paper. But at what cost? Dumping our drafted assistant-captain a year after signing him, after our first WCF ever, with nothing to really complain about would send the wrong message to our players IMO, and would negatively affect the team's pack mentality. I'm concerned it would bite us in the ass in a bad way.

We've achieved something this season that's really hard to accomplish - a whole team effort, with every single player buying into the system and playing for each other. Why risk ruining that?

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06-09-2012, 01:10 PM
  #110
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At the time Yandle's salary was considered to have been below market value.

Many thought the Coyotes wouldnt even be able to afford him.

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06-09-2012, 01:10 PM
  #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hbk View Post
I like Yandle a great deal. By no means would I ever consider running him out of town. He is a great locker room player by all accounts so any decision to move him has to be well thought out.

My opinion is merely that under the right circumstances I would deal Yandle for an impact forward. I believe Staal can be a true impact #1 center in this league and he's a name that I would strongly consider dealing for.
I really like Yandle but would consider this trade with a few changes and a couple observations. I'm from Stall's and Pyatt's home town so it would be neat to cheer for some hometown boys. But I am not as convinced that Jordon Stall is a true #1 center. And from what I see, we would be trading an iron man for a oft injured player. I don't like that. And what's with the draft picks? It would have to be straight across the board or not chance of a deal in my mind and even then, I would have to think about it.

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06-09-2012, 01:11 PM
  #112
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One thing that I am confident about is that whatever players are added this offseason will fit in well with the team and contribute.

During the many press conferences during the playoffs Tippett made it sound like him and Maloney are in close conversation regarding personnel moves and that they heavily scout potential players before looking to get them. He was referring to Gordon and how closely they looked at him and he talked about how well they knew he would fit in what he would bring. This makes our management sound as savvy as them seem.

I would love to see what they could do with an expanded budget and some franchise stability.

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06-09-2012, 02:09 PM
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinurgy View Post
Polarizing to you and to these random people you sit next too but I don't understand how that matters, at all.

Let's say Yandle doesn't disappoint next year and your Staal does, then what? You keep throwing out these complete negative hypotheticals while ignoring that the opposite outcome is just as likely, if not more so.

I still say Yandle stole your girl or something, seems like the most plausible explanation here.
I thought I pretty clearly explained polarizing. Let's say half the teams in the NHL like Yandle and half don't. A good season increases those teams that like him and decreases our chances of trading him. If he has a bad season, fewer teams would like him, making him a harder candidate to trade. Especially bc we are locked into a longer term deal (albeit at a reasonable price).

If Staal has a bad year next year, does that change the teams need for a forward? If Yandle wins the Norris next year, does that change that we have players like OEL and Gormley, who are very strong players with a great future ahead?

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06-09-2012, 07:39 PM
  #114
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So those who want to keep yandle...how do you suggest we address the issue for a first line center?

1. Ignore the issue and pretend we can win without one?

2. Sign or trade for someone like lombardi or stoll and go with three decent 2nd/3rd line type centers

3. Trade someone else for a center. If so who?

4. Draft the center and wait

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06-09-2012, 07:53 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Redcoyote View Post
2. Sign or trade for someone like lombardi or stoll and go with three decent 2nd/3rd line type centers
There you go.

Vermette
Hanzal
Stoll / Lombardi
Gordon

Good enough.

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06-09-2012, 08:12 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by OEL View Post
There you go.

Vermette
Hanzal
Stoll / Lombardi
Gordon

Good enough.
Agreed

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06-09-2012, 08:35 PM
  #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redcoyote View Post
So those who want to keep yandle...how do you suggest we address the issue for a first line center?

1. Ignore the issue and pretend we can win without one?

2. Sign or trade for someone like lombardi or stoll and go with three decent 2nd/3rd line type centers

3. Trade someone else for a center. If so who?

4. Draft the center and wait
You have to consider the options. I think the questions are out of order.

3. Yes, depends who's available the asking price. I don't like offering up proposals but it's a case by case scenario. I don't want to trade Yandle for J Staal, but I would trade Yandle for the right player. No one is untradeable, but there are some guys like OEL that would take significantly more than someone like Schlemko.

2. In the absence of #3, you pursue this option.

4. In the absence of #3 and #2, yes.

1. In the end this doesn't happen, but the closest thing to this option is #4 because it's not an immediate resolution to the issue.

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06-09-2012, 08:40 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by OEL View Post
There you go.

Vermette
Hanzal
Stoll / Lombardi
Gordon

Good enough.
Good enough for what? A chance at making the playoffs and maybe win a round or two if smith plays out of his mind?

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06-09-2012, 08:45 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by KevyD View Post
Because he disagrees with you, you have to attack him? Why can't he offer his opinion without it becoming personal?
I was merely giving him crap and I was doing so because the dude is a broken record. A disproportionate amount of his posts involve his endorsement of trading Yandle. I don't know much about BUX7PHX but what I do know is the trading of Yandle is apparently very very important to him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BUX7PHX View Post
If Staal has a bad year next year, does that change the teams need for a forward? If Yandle wins the Norris next year, does that change that we have players like OEL and Gormley, who are very strong players with a great future ahead?
Players like OEL and Gormley?! Gormley has never played a single shift in the NHL, hell he's barely even played in the AHL. I am not willing to assume Gormley is the next Yandle or OEL. The percentage of top prospects that fail to deliver is far greater than those who actually live up to the hype. Heck the Coyotes are already beating the odds by having both Yandle and OEL. People need to stop talking about Gormley like he's already a star in the NHL, he needs to prove it first before his name should be mentioned in the same breath as Yandle and OEL.

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06-09-2012, 08:47 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by OEL View Post
There you go.

Vermette
Hanzal
Stoll / Lombardi
Gordon

Good enough.
Sounds good

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06-09-2012, 09:02 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by Sinurgy View Post
Sounds good
Mm, not really. Sounds acceptable, but I doubt it helps us get any farther than we did this year.

I wouldn't complain if we did that, but I wouldnt expect to be a cup contender either.

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06-09-2012, 09:07 PM
  #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OEL View Post
There you go.

Vermette
Hanzal
Stoll / Lombardi
Gordon

Good enough.
I like it. Should keep us in the hunt til the deadline. Reevaluate then.

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06-09-2012, 09:13 PM
  #123
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Good enough for what? A chance at making the playoffs and maybe win a round or two if smith plays out of his mind?
I don't expect any more than that from a team with no owner. What we got this season was gravy.

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06-09-2012, 09:26 PM
  #124
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I still think Derek Roy would be a great fit. I could see him possibly being available.

I'd offer up any three of the following: PHX '12 1st, '12 2nd, '13 2nd, Brown, Ruuttu.

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Old
06-09-2012, 09:34 PM
  #125
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I still think Derek Roy would be a great fit. I could see him possibly being available.

I'd offer up any three of the following: PHX '12 1st, '12 2nd, '13 2nd, Brown, Ruuttu.
If they would take some combination of some of those assets for Roy I'd be down. Roy+Yandle is better than Staal+Prospect/UFA D.

Can we afford 5.5m in one guy though and still keep Whitney? I remember you were running some numbers last week.

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