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Old
06-08-2012, 11:58 PM
  #401
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyFischer View Post
Yeah.. again... who?

When guys like Malkin, Crosby, etc, come out and say bad things or even questionable things, then I'll be worried.

As of right now, we've heard great things about him from a lot of high quality individuals and respected players.
Terry Ryan was Habs' 8th overall draft pick in 1995.

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06-09-2012, 12:01 AM
  #402
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Originally Posted by EnforcerWeNeed View Post
Terry Ryan was Habs' 8th overall draft pick in 1995.
sar·casm   [sahr-kaz-uhm]
noun
1.
harsh or bitter derision or irony.
2.
a sharply ironical taunt; sneering or cutting remark:

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06-09-2012, 01:33 AM
  #403
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Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
Fair enough. I am generally referring to 2007-2008, the last full year coached by Therrien and thus the one I have the most complete dataset on. I don't have deep metrics on 2006-2007, but consider: the Pens were getting outshot by two shots a game, were a mere +5 on goals at 5-on-5 (on a team that had Sidney Crosby and Evgeni Malkin) and made up for it by leading the league in PP goals. I suspect the underlying metrics would paint a similar story.

Well, at least we know he can whip Sidney Crosby, Evgeni Malkin, and Sergei Gonchar into a strong power play.

I'm repeating myself, but he's basically equivalent to Carbonneau.
MM I need your opinion on why 5 on 5 is that important for ALL teams.

Heresy I know, but think about it.

Some teams are better at the PP than others, probably due to having talented offensive players who work well with more room. IE: Kovalev.

Teams like this will score a higher percentage of their goals on the PP. So what, they're still goals.

Now you will say that you can't depend on getting PP. That's true, but on average a team will have close to the same number of PP as PK a year.

Now you'll bring up Habs bad differential PP-PK, and I concede this point.

Therefore, if you are a team that performs well on the PP, Vs. 5-5, then:

1. There must be ways to ensure that your PP-PK differential is minimized. This is a tricky one, and I leave it to other guys here to tell me how that is done.

2. Ensure you have a top ten PK.

That I think is the key. A good coach should work with what they have. If you have a good PP team, recognize it and ensure that your 5-5 and PK play at least prevents goals, if they can't score 5-5.

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06-09-2012, 01:36 AM
  #404
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Originally Posted by Analyzer View Post
Did I say this already ? Are you guys ready for 25 minute a night Darche ?
Is Bergevin ready for that?

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06-09-2012, 01:40 AM
  #405
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Originally Posted by CrimsonSkorpion View Post
would often take the donuts Hitchcock would bring in, rub them against their bodies and genitals and would watch him eat them when he got back to the dressing room.
Note to self: Do not share donuts with NHL players. Ever. Check.

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06-09-2012, 01:42 AM
  #406
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Originally Posted by FinnHab View Post
Haters gonna hate. Whine all you can boys, MT is now Habs head coach, get over it. Draft is next...
Skaters gonna skate. Writers gonna write. Runners gonna run. Tossers gonna toss.

Can we retire that expression?

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06-09-2012, 01:47 AM
  #407
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Originally Posted by Roke View Post
Ottawa's shots% (shots for/(shots for +shots against) was 49.5% this year, they were barely outshot. Therrien teams' shot% in his career (including parital seasons in 00-01, 02-03, and 05-06) are:

MTL 00-01: 48.3%
MTL 01-02: 44.6%
MTL 02-03: 44.1%
PIT 05-06: 46.5%
PIT 06-07: 48.3%

Being hemmed into your own zone isn't what I consider entertaining hockey (but hey, I guess that's a personal taste) but it does mean you're less likely to win and getting fewer offensive chances than you're conceding.
Can't entirely explain Pitts 06-07, but the rest were **** teams. Maybe that's why.

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06-09-2012, 01:50 AM
  #408
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Originally Posted by Talks to Goalposts View Post
His process with three centers named Crosby, Malkin and Staal was questionable as well.
All of whom were like 12 years old when he coached them, with no other players to speak of.

I'm not wetting my pants about MT, but try to be fair.

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06-09-2012, 01:54 AM
  #409
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You guys should talk about his philosophy and hockey mind instead of losing your time talking about which player likes him and which player is gonna hate him.

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06-09-2012, 04:56 AM
  #410
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Originally Posted by bsl View Post
Skaters gonna skate. Writers gonna write. Runners gonna run. Tossers gonna toss.

Can we retire that expression?
Posters gonna post.

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06-09-2012, 07:24 AM
  #411
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Originally Posted by CrimsonSkorpion View Post
And P.J. Stock once said on Team 990 that when he played for Hitchcock, the team despised the guy as a coach and would often take the donuts Hitchcock would bring in, rub them against their bodies and genitals and would watch him eat them when he got back to the dressing room.

Yet he seemed to be the right coach to get St. Louis back on track this past season and look like a powerhouse.

A group of players hating a coach in the past means squat. The only real way to know Therrien will work here is when the results come in after the season. Until then, we'll all run in circles trying to convince the other party who is right and who is wrong.
Forget Hitchcock, Scotty Bowman was despised too by our 70's dinasty.

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06-09-2012, 08:11 AM
  #412
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Originally Posted by bsl View Post
All of whom were like 12 years old when he coached them, with no other players to speak of.

I'm not wetting my pants about MT, but try to be fair.
Anyway you could put all of your posts into one, rather than post 7 or 8 posts in a row? Your opinion is great and all, but it gets annoying reading 9 posts of nothing from the same guy over and over again.

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06-09-2012, 08:30 AM
  #413
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Originally Posted by bsl View Post
MM I need your opinion on why 5 on 5 is that important for ALL teams.

Heresy I know, but think about it.

Some teams are better at the PP than others, probably due to having talented offensive players who work well with more room. IE: Kovalev.

Teams like this will score a higher percentage of their goals on the PP. So what, they're still goals.

Now you will say that you can't depend on getting PP. That's true, but on average a team will have close to the same number of PP as PK a year.

Now you'll bring up Habs bad differential PP-PK, and I concede this point.

Therefore, if you are a team that performs well on the PP, Vs. 5-5, then:

1. There must be ways to ensure that your PP-PK differential is minimized. This is a tricky one, and I leave it to other guys here to tell me how that is done.

2. Ensure you have a top ten PK.

That I think is the key. A good coach should work with what they have. If you have a good PP team, recognize it and ensure that your 5-5 and PK play at least prevents goals, if they can't score 5-5.
I know you were asking Mathman but if you don't mind I can answer a part of your question.

The main problem is thinking that making the playoffs on the back of good special teams happens as often as it did even just three or four years ago. It doesn't. To put this into context,the year Carbo's bad 5 on 5 club won the east about half of the teams in the playoffs were sub 50% in possession. That number has been dropping in each season ever since. I don't have know for this year but I know that number was down to only 2 in 2010-2011.

Basically, making the playoffs while being bad 5 on 5 used to be a coin flip. These days, you can basically just look at teams Corsi. With a few outliers, the top half teams in Corsi are in, the bottom half are out.

The main problem I have with Therrien as a coach is that I think that, with a few small addition, next year's team could be good. It's just that it's the kind of team that would need a strong tactical coach to be so. I think a guy like Vigneault can get this team in the playoffs, I have my doubt about Therrien being able to do that. But I guess I'll wait and see how he actually coaches this team.

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06-09-2012, 08:35 AM
  #414
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when therrien was coach back 2001-02 season his roster was terrible perrault was the only player to get more than 50 points he had 56 of course theodore had .931 save percentage and won the hart and vezina trophies,but he had a tough team like souray,quintal,rivet,asham,simpson and gino odjick.

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06-09-2012, 08:36 AM
  #415
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therrien bring in yannick perrault as a special coach in training camp to teach these players how to win faceoffs perrault of course was best face-off man in nhl history.

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Old
06-09-2012, 08:45 AM
  #416
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roke View Post
Ottawa's shots% (shots for/(shots for +shots against) was 49.5% this year, they were barely outshot. Therrien teams' shot% in his career (including parital seasons in 00-01, 02-03, and 05-06) are:

MTL 00-01: 48.3%
MTL 01-02: 44.6%
MTL 02-03: 44.1%
PIT 05-06: 46.5%
PIT 06-07: 48.3%

Being hemmed into your own zone isn't what I consider entertaining hockey (but hey, I guess that's a personal taste) but it does mean you're less likely to win and getting fewer offensive chances than you're conceding.
Maybe it's the system, but maybe it's the team too. In Montreal, all editions under Therrien were crap offensively. In Pittsburgh, it was inflated by Crosby and Malkin for the most part.

Right now, we don't have the best lineup, but we do have many offensive minded players with a few offensive D. We'll see if it changes anything.

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06-09-2012, 09:05 AM
  #417
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Originally Posted by BlackStar View Post
Posters gonna post.
Hee hee. Good one.

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06-09-2012, 09:06 AM
  #418
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Originally Posted by JesusBouillon View Post
Forget Hitchcock, Scotty Bowman was despised too by our 70's dinasty.
But respected.

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06-09-2012, 09:10 AM
  #419
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Originally Posted by habsfanatics View Post
Anyway you could put all of your posts into one, rather than post 7 or 8 posts in a row? Your opinion is great and all, but it gets annoying reading 9 posts of nothing from the same guy over and over again.
Uh. I live in Hong kong. All you guys are in bed jerking off when I post, so my posts add up in a row. Can't help it dude. In fact it's a drag, I like getting smart responses from you guys, and even criticism, which I often deserve. Instead, it's like I'm posting to the dead.

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06-09-2012, 09:17 AM
  #420
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Originally Posted by EllertoKostitsynGoal View Post
I know you were asking Mathman but if you don't mind I can answer a part of your question.

The main problem is thinking that making the playoffs on the back of good special teams happens as often as it did even just three or four years ago. It doesn't. To put this into context,the year Carbo's bad 5 on 5 club won the east about half of the teams in the playoffs were sub 50% in possession. That number has been dropping in each season ever since. I don't have know for this year but I know that number was down to only 2 in 2010-2011.

Basically, making the playoffs while being bad 5 on 5 used to be a coin flip. These days, you can basically just look at teams Corsi. With a few outliers, the top half teams in Corsi are in, the bottom half are out.

The main problem I have with Therrien as a coach is that I think that, with a few small addition, next year's team could be good. It's just that it's the kind of team that would need a strong tactical coach to be so. I think a guy like Vigneault can get this team in the playoffs, I have my doubt about Therrien being able to do that. But I guess I'll wait and see how he actually coaches this team.
Thanks very informative.

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06-09-2012, 10:07 AM
  #421
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roke View Post
Ottawa's shots% (shots for/(shots for +shots against) was 49.5% this year, they were barely outshot. Therrien teams' shot% in his career (including parital seasons in 00-01, 02-03, and 05-06) are:

MTL 00-01: 48.3%
MTL 01-02: 44.6%
MTL 02-03: 44.1%
PIT 05-06: 46.5%
PIT 06-07: 48.3%

Being hemmed into your own zone isn't what I consider entertaining hockey (but hey, I guess that's a personal taste) but it does mean you're less likely to win and getting fewer offensive chances than you're conceding.
Exactly. With the talent that Therrien had at his disposal in Pittsburgh, those numbers are bad - which doesn't bode well for the 2012-13 Habs.

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06-09-2012, 10:31 AM
  #422
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Originally Posted by impudent_lowlife View Post
Exactly. With the talent that Therrien had at his disposal in Pittsburgh, those numbers are bad - which doesn't bode well for the 2012-13 Habs.
Some talented, but young players. And the offensive depth wasn't that great.

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06-09-2012, 10:39 AM
  #423
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when therrien went to pittsburgh they had missed playoffs for 3 years in a row he turned them around bigtime not to mention crosby won the art ross and hart trophies with 120 points playing for therrien.

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06-09-2012, 10:48 AM
  #424
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Originally Posted by bsl View Post
MM I need your opinion on why 5 on 5 is that important for ALL teams.

Heresy I know, but think about it.

Some teams are better at the PP than others, probably due to having talented offensive players who work well with more room. IE: Kovalev.

Teams like this will score a higher percentage of their goals on the PP. So what, they're still goals.

Now you will say that you can't depend on getting PP. That's true, but on average a team will have close to the same number of PP as PK a year.

Now you'll bring up Habs bad differential PP-PK, and I concede this point.

Therefore, if you are a team that performs well on the PP, Vs. 5-5, then:

1. There must be ways to ensure that your PP-PK differential is minimized. This is a tricky one, and I leave it to other guys here to tell me how that is done.

2. Ensure you have a top ten PK.

That I think is the key. A good coach should work with what they have. If you have a good PP team, recognize it and ensure that your 5-5 and PK play at least prevents goals, if they can't score 5-5.
The stat I want to know is: if puck possession teams are more inclined to have a better PP-PK ratio.

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06-09-2012, 10:51 AM
  #425
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Originally Posted by habsfanatics View Post
Anyway you could put all of your posts into one, rather than post 7 or 8 posts in a row? Your opinion is great and all, but it gets annoying reading 9 posts of nothing from the same guy over and over again.

Please show some respect to posters. You may not like reading short posts. Others do.

By the way, not a fan of Therrien here. But some players have said that he's a pretty underrated tactician. The Wild's head coach thinks so. And I know he manages a game bench pretty good. Contrary to the likes of Martin and Cunneyworth/Gauthier (hehehe), his best players during a game get more ice time. He's more the Torts-school of mind.

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