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Too many players = trade back into the first round?

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Old
06-07-2012, 11:09 AM
  #51
The Zetterberg Era
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JmanWingsFan View Post
I'm unsure about Abdelkader. I guess I won't miss because Miller does a heck of a better job and he's just as big as Abby. Part of me wants to see him succeed in the bottom six as a winger... Such a trivial matter regardless.
If by just as big as Abdelkader you mean 40 lbs. lighter than okay.

He might have done a better job and he does serve his roles, but he isn't a natural center, say what you want about him being better at the Wing Gator has the ability to take on center duties especially if injuries arise. He is much heavier, hits more often and is willing to fight from time to time. I don't see them as that similar of pieces, I like both guys but they each bring a different element.

Also even with Miler's career year I suspect that Abdelkader has quite a bit more trade value.

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Old
06-07-2012, 12:23 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by RedWings19405 View Post
If by just as big as Abdelkader you mean 40 lbs. lighter than okay.

He might have done a better job and he does serve his roles, but he isn't a natural center, say what you want about him being better at the Wing Gator has the ability to take on center duties especially if injuries arise. He is much heavier, hits more often and is willing to fight from time to time. I don't see them as that similar of pieces, I like both guys but they each bring a different element.

Also even with Miler's career year I suspect that Abdelkader has quite a bit more trade value.
In my vocabulary, big covers both height and weight. They're both 6' 2''.

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06-07-2012, 02:12 PM
  #53
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I think some folks have the wrong opinion (well, who am I to say wrong, but I definitely don't agree) on Andersson- I personally don't see anything lackadaisical about his game at all. I've seen him at the prospect tourney (and the odd other game here or there) the past couple seasons and been impressed with him. He can look laid back (which accounts for any complaints on his skating too) and can seem to blend in, but I'd argue in a good workmanlike way- he's competes at both ends with a great defensive game and at times a surprising amount of offensive vision against his peers. Andersson and Nyquist looked like they were the most NHL ready last summer- and complemented each other nicely. A telling thing is he looks substantially better after every year of development too. It's tough to compare any two players- but I'd say if everything came together some reference points in Franzen (no grumbles needed since he wouldn't come with a $4mil cap hit) or maybe since Andersson is more playmaker than shooter a guy like Handzus- guys who have some power to their game but more from their size/skill combo than from crushing anyone.

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06-07-2012, 02:19 PM
  #54
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Oh yeah- I could see a move or two with the bottom six getting crowded between regulars and prospects ready to graduate... but I'd think it would be a lot more likely Detroit gets an extra 4-7th round pick or two than they climb back into the 1st.

I'd love to see it but it seems like moving up, especially into the first two rounds, requires multiple close picks or better guys than we're talking.

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06-07-2012, 06:29 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoupNazi View Post
Care to explain this one to ol' SoupNasty?
Andersson has questions about intensity and physical play.

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06-07-2012, 09:04 PM
  #56
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You're not moving up for **** dealing guys like Miller or Eaves. Those guys are a dime a dozen. I am sure some will be in denial that Miller is the bee's-knees but the guy had one good season. Before that he had 2 back to back 10 goal, sub 20 pt seasons. He's a very good, cheap 4th liner who can kill penalties but he's average at best at everything. He's easily replaceable. Abby is not much better but at least he's young and leave the "potential" factor open for a little while longer.

If you move Abby, you probably could move into the first but it wont be to a spot as high as our pick, so its pointless.

If you can package up Kindl, Emmerton and our 3/4th and move up dramatically, then do it. We got the depth but this isnt nhl 12/13 so it wont happen.

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06-07-2012, 09:09 PM
  #57
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Miller won't fetch anything and he's great at what he does.

They need more guys that know their role and can play it as well as he can, not fewer. Too many guys on this team are grumpy because they think they should be able to float because they learned how to score (Franzen), or they get the stink-eye from the refs more often than not (Homer, Bert), or they think they only have to play hard if they're on a line with Datsyuk (Bert), etc.

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06-08-2012, 04:16 AM
  #58
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Have to agree on Miller. I think he's a stalwart PKer who's worth keeping because he does his role. It's also why I'm not an Emmerton hater. If he's a Jim Dowd type player who's reliable (and he seems to be anything but a defensive liability) I'd be happy with that. His playoff goal showed me that he's not a useless player. He just takes his role seriously.

I started this thread not to discuss the players we'd get, but rather the ideal lineup of the players we'd keep so we could focus on trading (though I seemed to be unrealistic about getting back into the first round--my bad, I'm not up on pick/player value and and happy to defer). Rather who would you keep so we can focus on who to lose?

OFFENSE
Line 1: Zetterberg - Datsyuk - ________
Line 2: Filppula - ________ - Franzen
Line 3: Hudler - Helm - Cleary
Line 4: Miller - Abdelkader -Nyquist
Reserves: Emmerton, Mursak

I'd love to get rid of Homer (I love him, it's over), Bertuzzi (it's him or Cleary and they can't play on the top 2 lines, but Bert is older), Eaves (love him, but not as clear a role guy as Miller. Make room for younger players)

Would I keep Z on the second line if we can't get a center? Absolutely. I just feel we're in the stretch run for Z and Dats so let's take that dumb question about playing them together or not out of Babs hands. Let's just play them together come hell or high water (or rather, come adequate 2nd line replacements). If we can only get 2 wingers would I move Flip back to center? Hell yes, but I'd try to get a defensive 2nd line center so Flip could keep shooting. Would I consider moving Franzen to the 3rd line? No way. I know he doesn't always produce, but he's at worst a 2nd line center. If you don't like him trade him. Are we likely to keep Hudler as a third line luxury? Probably not a chance. If we could, I'd overpay him to be a third line winger. A scoring 3rd line is truly what separates good teams from great teams and he's great on the PP even if he's not scoring as much as he can there. If we lose him then scratch my Bertuzzi cut and keep him on the 3rd line. Bert-Helm-Clears is actually a pretty good 3rd line and when Nyquist displaces one of the veterans, it'll be even better. As for Abdelkader, I'm not a fan, but I agree we can't be too hasty about a guy we have with size. If Andersson can displace him then get rid of his ass. Still, I think he would probably be fine this year. Maybe 4th line wing with Emmerton back in there would be better rotating Miller with Cleary and Mursak with Nyquist. Honestly I see Nyquist being on the 3rd line/subbing into the top two by the end of next year.

DEFENSE (I'm assuming Stuart is a goner and Lids won't come back as a Selanne/Nieds (did they do that? I thought they did..../no one actually things Lids might come back, I know. Just being funny). I'm also assuming we don't get Suter (not that I'm a Quincey guy--I didn't blame Holland when we lost him, I didn't try to blame Holland in retrospect after Leino to make a doubly lame argument, and I certainly wasn't clamoring for him to return, but as a big body he's useful and I don't think he got a fair shot coming in right before the playoffs. With a training camp and full season I think he'll be fine... worth the price? Unfortunately in this market. But what if we get Suter? Frankly, I'd rather take the chance resigning Q and dumpting White just because of his size and cause he seemed to wear out as the season went on...).

Kronwall - White
Quincey - Ericsson
Smith - ________
Kindl

I think we can get an affordable veteran for the third line. And yes, I think Smith should start over Kindl even though I'm a big Kindl supporter. By the end of the season I think Smith will be on the second line. I also want some money left over for the trade deadline.

But what if we get Suter and Parise? Well then ignore my post. Keep Bertuzzi for the first line and drop Quincey. I think that's what I mean...

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Old
06-08-2012, 08:49 AM
  #60
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Nyquist is not a checkingline player.

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Old
06-08-2012, 10:35 AM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
Andersson has questions about intensity and physical play.
So you expect this single sentence to explain everything? Boy you have high standards for us being able to understand you.

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Old
06-08-2012, 10:40 AM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JmanWingsFan View Post
So you expect this single sentence to explain everything? Boy you have high standards for us being able to understand you.
I was going to say something but I'm already SoupNasty and I don't want him to know me as being even nastier.

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06-09-2012, 03:40 AM
  #63
Adityase
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Quote:
Originally Posted by landskronala View Post
Nyquist is not a checkingline player.
Yes, I agree, but that's the point. When Bowman was the coach there was a philosophy that we'd have one grind/checking line and the 4th line was like a developmental line (youth) or veteran scoring (Larionov and Robitaille). Sure that was easier pre-cap to acquire that kind of depth, but that's what I'm saying. We have that kind of depth in the kids that are potentially coming up from GR.

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