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06-09-2012, 11:03 AM
  #426
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Originally Posted by impudent_lowlife View Post
Exactly. With the talent that Therrien had at his disposal in Pittsburgh, those numbers are bad - which doesn't bode well for the 2012-13 Habs.
LMAO. Therrien got his teams to play to their potential and even over-achieve. IMO the difference between Therrien's pens and Bylsma's, is Chris Kunitz. What a player he is. Let's not forget the best player in the world(IMO) at the time, Datsyuk, being hurt at the end of the playoffs.

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06-09-2012, 12:22 PM
  #427
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Originally Posted by EllertoKostitsynGoal View Post
I know you were asking Mathman but if you don't mind I can answer a part of your question.

The main problem is thinking that making the playoffs on the back of good special teams happens as often as it did even just three or four years ago. It doesn't. To put this into context,the year Carbo's bad 5 on 5 club won the east about half of the teams in the playoffs were sub 50% in possession. That number has been dropping in each season ever since. I don't have know for this year but I know that number was down to only 2 in 2010-2011.

Basically, making the playoffs while being bad 5 on 5 used to be a coin flip. These days, you can basically just look at teams Corsi. With a few outliers, the top half teams in Corsi are in, the bottom half are out.

The main problem I have with Therrien as a coach is that I think that, with a few small addition, next year's team could be good. It's just that it's the kind of team that would need a strong tactical coach to be so. I think a guy like Vigneault can get this team in the playoffs, I have my doubt about Therrien being able to do that. But I guess I'll wait and see how he actually coaches this team.
I believe the biggest reason for this is referees swallowing their whistles all the way back to pre-lockout rates. There were almost half as many powerplays in the 2011-12 season as compared to the 2005-06 season. A greater proportion of the game is being played at even-strength.

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06-09-2012, 12:26 PM
  #428
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Originally Posted by Freaky Habs Fan View Post
Maybe it's the system, but maybe it's the team too. In Montreal, all editions under Therrien were crap offensively. In Pittsburgh, it was inflated by Crosby and Malkin for the most part.

Right now, we don't have the best lineup, but we do have many offensive minded players with a few offensive D. We'll see if it changes anything.
Team quality is an issue for sure, but the immediate bump Pittsburgh got with their coaching switch is concerning.

Of course, because of his predecessor in Montreal (Vigneault) and his successor in Pittsburgh (Bylsma) Therrien's teams are being compared to teams coached by 2 of the best coaches in the league currently.

Like you said, we'll see what happens. If the team can add a top-6 forward they should be able to achieve 50% or higher in the shot metrics.

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06-09-2012, 12:57 PM
  #429
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Originally Posted by Roke View Post
the immediate bump Pittsburgh got with their coaching switch is concerning.
If anything, all it shows is that the team had quit on Therrien.

No coach can turn a team around that much and that quickly.

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06-09-2012, 01:31 PM
  #430
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Originally Posted by Twi2teD View Post
LMAO. Therrien got his teams to play to their potential and even over-achieve. IMO the difference between Therrien's pens and Bylsma's, is Chris Kunitz. What a player he is. Let's not forget the best player in the world(IMO) at the time, Datsyuk, being hurt at the end of the playoffs.
HIM + Guerin + healthy Gonchar & Whitney + Boucher + Adams

The Pens had a rude wake up call when they changed the headcoach that year.

Loosing the Spring before in the FInals was probably an anti climax for a team that young and inexperienced.

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06-09-2012, 01:38 PM
  #431
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If anything, all it shows is that the team had quit on Therrien.

No coach can turn a team around that much and that quickly.
Strangely, the great Shero, who we all think is a genius had given Therrien, during that preseason a contract extension. So he must have been doing something good even if he had reached the finals. Before you give an extension of that nature, you don't solely base yourself on the sole result, see how he's liked in the dressing room IF you don't happen to be a GM who doesn't know your dressing room.

Then, Therrien had to deal with tons of injuries, most of which returned around when Bylsma was appointed. Add the fact that even if some don't like it, yet, Therrien had to deal with Sabourin more than Bylsma had to do. Add a few interesting trades, add a 8-game home stand the most of any other time in that year, add the fact that Bylsma IS a great coach (you still can be a good even if you are replaced by a better one), and you might have the start of some of the reasons why it worked better.


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06-09-2012, 01:43 PM
  #432
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If ALL the coaches would be great and brilliant, and... Everyone of them would keep his job for 10 years minimum with the same team.

Tell me what Trotz and Ruff had won so far at NHL level ? Have they reached the SC Finals at least ONCE ?

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06-09-2012, 03:16 PM
  #433
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Originally Posted by Roke View Post

Of course, because of his predecessor in Montreal (Vigneault) and his successor in Pittsburgh (Bylsma) Therrien's teams are being compared to teams coached by 2 of the best coaches in the league currently.

Like you said, we'll see what happens. If the team can add a top-6 forward they should be able to achieve 50% or higher in the shot metrics.
Wasn't his successor in Montreal Julien too? That's another pretty damn good coach.

Like I said, I don't think Therrien is the tactician Vigneault, Julien, Bylsma etc... are but there is still a possibility that he's good enough, it's going to be pretty easy to see pretty soon since, like I previously said, I think that our roster is going to need a coach that really takes special care about how he uses players to be good.

Even if he's good enough, we may not be a great possession team from the begining but the way he uses players will say alot, in Martin's first year we were a terrible possession team but what he did made sense, he went to war with his his top ES guys and it was the bottom 6 that sank the team.

It's just kind of sad that we've had to settle for maybe good enough.

I think that if they add a top 6 foward the roster becomes similar in ability to the early 2010-2011 team.

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06-09-2012, 03:23 PM
  #434
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Bertrand Raymond strikes again. One of the worst article ever written. Poor poor journalism:

http://www.rds.ca/canadien/chroniques/341608.html

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06-09-2012, 03:53 PM
  #435
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Originally Posted by Clumsyhab View Post
Bertrand Raymond strikes again. One of the worst article ever written. Poor poor journalism:

http://www.rds.ca/canadien/chroniques/341608.html
What a worthless **** disturber.

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06-09-2012, 04:00 PM
  #436
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Originally Posted by Clumsyhab View Post
Bertrand Raymond strikes again. One of the worst article ever written. Poor poor journalism:

http://www.rds.ca/canadien/chroniques/341608.html
Translation guys? Please...

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06-09-2012, 04:07 PM
  #437
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Originally Posted by BLONG7 View Post
Translation guys? Please...
He basically say Bervegin was disrespectful of Roy by not treating him as a first class candidate because Roy won in Montreal and yada yada yada.

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06-09-2012, 04:11 PM
  #438
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Translation guys? Please...
Roy was disrespected because Bervegin didn't bend over for him. Typical cliches about Roy as a winner, etc.

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06-09-2012, 04:12 PM
  #439
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Originally Posted by Goldthorpe View Post
He basically say Bervegin was disrespectful of Roy by not treating him as a first class candidate because Roy won in Montreal and yada yada yada.
Thanks, it seems Bert is suffering from menopause these days, pretty brutal journalist when all he spews is the french/english thing...maybe he is the new Rejean Tremblay?

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06-09-2012, 04:15 PM
  #440
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Originally Posted by Clumsyhab View Post
Bertrand Raymond strikes again. One of the worst article ever written. Poor poor journalism:

http://www.rds.ca/canadien/chroniques/341608.html
Ciboire... T'exagères pas un peu mon Bertand?

Old guy should follow Red Ficher into retirement. Garbage article.

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06-09-2012, 04:26 PM
  #441
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He's an idiot. Stop spreading his crap around, it'll only keep him around longer.

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06-09-2012, 04:35 PM
  #442
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Originally Posted by BLONG7 View Post
Thanks, it seems Bert is suffering from menopause these days, pretty brutal journalist when all he spews is the french/english thing...maybe he is the new Rejean Tremblay?

He also slams Dudley saying that if he called Roy for a follow up interview it's probably because they weren't interested in Roy. He adds on that Roy doesn't give a crap about Dudley, just like the rest of the candidates.

Just usual Raymond BS.

What is funny though is he names this piece ''Lack of Respect'' when he's the one disrespecting both Dudley and Bergevin for no reason really..
He wasn't part of the interview process yet makes all these assumptions. Really, how did this guy ever become involved in journalism is beyond me.

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06-09-2012, 04:58 PM
  #443
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He also slams Dudley saying that if he called Roy for a follow up interview it's probably because they weren't interested in Roy. He adds on that Roy doesn't give a crap about Dudley, just like the rest of the candidates.

Just usual Raymond BS.

What is funny though is he names this piece ''Lack of Respect'' when he's the one disrespecting both Dudley and Bergevin for no reason really..
He wasn't part of the interview process yet makes all these assumptions. Really, how did this guy ever become involved in journalism is beyond me.
Why do the Habs organization continue to put up with this foolishness? Wow...

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06-09-2012, 05:00 PM
  #444
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Originally Posted by BLONG7 View Post
Why do the Habs organization continue to put up with this foolishness? Wow...
He'll write what he'll write. What can the habs really do about it? It says a lot more about those who continue paying him to write than anything else.

Would be funny to see the habs bar him from all media scrums, though. Would serve as a nice warning shot, too.

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06-09-2012, 05:11 PM
  #445
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Controversy sells newspapers. That's why they keep those guys.

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06-09-2012, 05:11 PM
  #446
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Originally Posted by EllertoKostitsynGoal View Post
I know you were asking Mathman but if you don't mind I can answer a part of your question.

The main problem is thinking that making the playoffs on the back of good special teams happens as often as it did even just three or four years ago. It doesn't. To put this into context,the year Carbo's bad 5 on 5 club won the east about half of the teams in the playoffs were sub 50% in possession. That number has been dropping in each season ever since. I don't have know for this year but I know that number was down to only 2 in 2010-2011.

Basically, making the playoffs while being bad 5 on 5 used to be a coin flip. These days, you can basically just look at teams Corsi. With a few outliers, the top half teams in Corsi are in, the bottom half are out.

The main problem I have with Therrien as a coach is that I think that, with a few small addition, next year's team could be good. It's just that it's the kind of team that would need a strong tactical coach to be so. I think a guy like Vigneault can get this team in the playoffs, I have my doubt about Therrien being able to do that. But I guess I'll wait and see how he actually coaches this team.
Very well said, imo.

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06-09-2012, 05:14 PM
  #447
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Originally Posted by deandebean View Post
Please show some respect to posters. You may not like reading short posts. Others do.

By the way, not a fan of Therrien here. But some players have said that he's a pretty underrated tactician. The Wild's head coach thinks so. And I know he manages a game bench pretty good. Contrary to the likes of Martin and Cunneyworth/Gauthier (hehehe), his best players during a game get more ice time. He's more the Torts-school of mind.
I respect everyone, but his posts are ridiculous. Seven or 8 in a row, he's not the only one posting here.

As far as Therrien goes, I agree, I expect working harder to be his answer to everything and his act will grow tiring on the players.

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06-09-2012, 06:08 PM
  #448
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Who...?
Journeyman hockey player that's been through the minor leagues. He works for the The Score now as a writer.

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06-09-2012, 06:12 PM
  #449
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Originally Posted by overlords View Post
Would be funny to see the habs bar him from all media scrums, though. Would serve as a nice warning shot, too.
Do you really want that?? That the Habs select which journalist is friendly enough in his coverage to attend the scrums??? That would annoy me so much.


Media control was one really annoying thing with PG and Bergevin seems to go with another direction.

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06-09-2012, 06:31 PM
  #450
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Do you really want that?? That the Habs select which journalist is friendly enough in his coverage to attend the scrums??? That would annoy me so much.


Media control was one really annoying thing with PG and Bergevin seems to go with another direction.
Well, no. It was just funny to think about.

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