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06-09-2012, 02:46 PM
  #26
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Originally Posted by CoRD View Post
Wow. I just don't know about you sometimes.

He is very possibly the most underrated player because he plays on a team with the 2 best centers arguably in the NHL today.
Have you seen the trade boards they want Sven + for 1 year of Staal he is vastly overrated.

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06-09-2012, 02:50 PM
  #27
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I personally think Staal is the most overrated player in the NHL.
If you are talking about being overrated by the Pens fanbase I would agree with you, but I think most people in the hockey world know what Staal is. A big centre, that is great defensively, good on FO's and has pretty good offensive skill.

I do think Staal has room to grow, but I think 1 or 2 70 point seasons playing on a top line would be the absolute most anyone could ever expect out of him in an ideal environment.

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06-09-2012, 02:52 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by CoRD View Post
Wow. I just don't know about you sometimes.

He is very possibly the most underrated player because he plays on a team with the 2 best centers arguably in the NHL today.
People talk about Staal as if he is some kind of god because he is on the Penguins. When in reality if you watch is game and compare his numbers he looks to be more like Daymond Langkow than anyone else. A bigger version of Langkow, but very similar players. He might end up with a few big seasons, but he is more likely to float around the 50-60 point plateau most of his career while being an excellent 2way player.

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06-09-2012, 02:53 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by TheGleninator View Post
Have you seen the trade boards they want Sven + for 1 year of Staal he is vastly overrated.
I wouldn't trade Sven for Staal straight up. Nothing is guaranteed with Baertschi, but his ceiling is definitely higher than Staal's.

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06-09-2012, 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted by MVW View Post
If you are talking about being overrated by the Pens fanbase I would agree with you, but I think most people in the hockey world know what Staal is. A big centre, that is great defensively, good on FO's and has pretty good offensive skill.

I do think Staal has room to grow, but I think 1 or 2 70 point seasons playing on a top line would be the absolute most anyone could ever expect out of him in an ideal environment.
except he isn't that good on faceoffs!

He may have been at 51% this year, but its the first time he has cracked 50% in his career, prior to this season his best was 48.3% and 2nd best was 47%. Maybe he is improving, or maybe it was just a good year.

I personally am not willing to butcher our already weak defense for a younger version of Langkow.

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06-09-2012, 03:03 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by TheGleninator View Post
What has he lied about?
Off the top of my head;

After becoming the full time GM last year, Feaster, in his season ending press conference would state that he was opposed to NTC/NMC and would be extremely judicious in handing them out (not handing them out like 'candy', I think was the phrase he used). He then proceeds to give three NTC's out, one of which was to Babchuk, a 7th defensmen/PP specialist.

In those same press conferences, he would go on to say how important draft picks were. After already throwing away a 7th on an obviously finished Modin, throws away 5th for Leblond, a player who could have been picked up on waivers a couple of months later.

After trading that 7th for Modin, he would go on to say that he fully plans on getting it pack and that he wanted a pick in every round (2011 draft). Fails on both accounts.

After the stretch run in 2011 failed, he would emphatically state he wouldn't be fooled again. Whoops.

A week before the 2012 deadline, says major changes will be coming. At the deadline, does nothing. Although, granted, ownership may have had a some influence in the the last two points.

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06-09-2012, 03:07 PM
  #32
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Any interest in acquiring Daniel Briere? I would make this trade before or at draft:

To Flyers:
Jay Boumeester
rights to Jokinen
Backlund
3rd round pick 2012

To Calgary:
Briere
Ben Holmstrom (http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospects/ben_holmstrom/)
1st round pick 2012

Should that 1st be a 2nd instead?

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06-09-2012, 03:16 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by tyflames View Post
Any interest in acquiring Daniel Briere? I would make this trade before or at draft:

To Flyers:
Jay Boumeester
rights to Jokinen
Backlund
3rd round pick 2012

To Calgary:
Briere
Ben Holmstrom (http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospects/ben_holmstrom/)
1st round pick 2012

Should that 1st be a 2nd instead?
Philly won't trade Briere (or he won't leave there I should say). Also, I'm not a fan of that package.

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06-09-2012, 03:19 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by MVW View Post
Philly won't trade Briere (or he won't leave there I should say). Also, I'm not a fan of that package.
What if instead of Briere, it was JVR? Would that do it?

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06-09-2012, 03:38 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Calculon View Post
Off the top of my head;

After becoming the full time GM last year, Feaster, in his season ending press conference would state that he was opposed to NTC/NMC and would be extremely judicious in handing them out (not handing them out like 'candy', I think was the phrase he used). He then proceeds to give three NTC's out, one of which was to Babchuk, a 7th defensmen/PP specialist.

In those same press conferences, he would go on to say how important draft picks were. After already throwing away a 7th on an obviously finished Modin, throws away 5th for Leblond, a player who could have been picked up on waivers a couple of months later.

After trading that 7th for Modin, he would go on to say that he fully plans on getting it pack and that he wanted a pick in every round (2011 draft). Fails on both accounts.

After the stretch run in 2011 failed, he would emphatically state he wouldn't be fooled again. Whoops.

A week before the 2012 deadline, says major changes will be coming. At the deadline, does nothing. Although, granted, ownership may have had a some influence in the the last two points.
you seem to take failing as lying. just because something wasn't achieved doesn't mean he never tried to do it.

While I agree the Babchuk NTC was ill advised, you can't blame him for the Glencross and Tanguay NTCs since they signed pretty cheap contracts.

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06-09-2012, 03:43 PM
  #36
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Philly may do JVR for Bouwmeester straight up. Personally I'd be really torn on that trade. I'm a HUGE JVR fan, the Flyers are my 2nd favorite team. I watch a ton of their games and I love the way that guy plays. I'd be super pumped if he became a Flame. I think he's every bit as good as Bobby Ryan, he just had terrible luck last season. I think if he plays with Giroux next year all season that he'll break 70 points pretty easily.

It would suck to lose Bouw, but I'd love JVR. Opponents of this trade from the Flames perspective will say we don't need another LW especially at the cost of Bouw, and thats a valid point. But we don't have a single player like JVR on the Flames right now. He's a BIG forward, has great speed and has one hell of a shot. He also goes to the dirty areas and is a good front of the net presence.

I'd do it, others wouldn't want to though. I just think he has tremendous upside.

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06-09-2012, 03:44 PM
  #37
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While I think fans overrate Staal, he's better than Langkow. He's bigger, has a higher offensive upside, and is a better defensive player. I think Staal is more comparable to Jeff Carter - big centres with good offensive skills, have 70-point potential, and play very well defensively. A Staal-Baerstchi combo would be very nice building blocks going into the future.

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06-09-2012, 04:02 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Medium Rare View Post
you seem to take failing as lying. just because something wasn't achieved doesn't mean he never tried to do it.
Eh, I can see how that would apply to Feaster on reacquiring the 7th and having a pick in every round. Maybe on him wanting to make major changes at the deadline as well, but I don't think he actually tried to do anything there. I think the rest of points still stand though.

Quote:
While I agree the Babchuk NTC was ill advised, you can't blame him for the Glencross and Tanguay NTCs since they signed pretty cheap contracts.
I'm not blaming Feaster for giving out a NTC to Tanguay and Glencross, I'm criticizing him for publicly faulting the previous management for handing out NTC's out like candy and then doing the exact same thing. Saying things that sound nice to the fans but aren't practical in real life context isn't a good way to go about doing things for a sports organization.

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06-09-2012, 04:13 PM
  #39
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Given the dearth of talent available in free agency, I fully expect the only new additions to this current iteration of the team to come from within or via trade. Feaster has promised big moves, time to see if he stands by his word.

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06-09-2012, 04:19 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Medium Rare View Post
I wouldn't trade Bouwmeester for Staal. Bouwmeester is proven to be a top pairing defenseman, Staal hasn't proved he can be a first liner.

Giordano+ maybe, but not Bouwmeester
You would not trade Bouw for Staal? Boy am I happy you are not Feaster! Giordano is a much better player than Bouwmeester and comes a lot cheaper.

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06-09-2012, 04:22 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Calculon View Post
Eh, I can see how that would apply to Feaster on reacquiring the 7th and having a pick in every round. Maybe on him wanting to make major changes at the deadline as well, but I don't think he actually tried to do anything there. I think the rest of points still stand though.



I'm not blaming Feaster for giving out a NTC to Tanguay and Glencross, I'm criticizing him for publicly faulting the previous management for handing out NTC's out like candy and then doing the exact same thing. Saying things that sound nice to the fans but aren't practical in real life context isn't a good way to go about doing things for a sports organization.
I think you read too much into the statement about NTC's the media put him in a tough spot with the question and he hasn't handed them out like candy, he also talked about how if he had to give them he likes them being modified. 3 of his signings have NTCs, 2 of them are modified in some way. He hasn't exactly tossed them around to just anyone.

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06-09-2012, 04:57 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Medium Rare View Post
I think you read too much into the statement about NTC's the media put him in a tough spot with the question and he hasn't handed them out like candy, he also talked about how if he had to give them he likes them being modified. 3 of his signings have NTCs, 2 of them are modified in some way. He hasn't exactly tossed them around to just anyone.
A 7th defensemen should never get a NTC no matter the situation. I qualify that as excessive. Also doesn't help when he writes articles of his own accord like this one vilifying them.

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06-09-2012, 05:00 PM
  #43
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A 7th defensemen should never get a NTC no matter the situation. I qualify that as excessive. Also doesn't help when he writes articles of his own accord like this one vilifying them.
I wouldn't uses opinions of people in the media as anything to be honest, their job is to still things up. It's like Warrener he was always a stand up guy, now he is the lowest form of media scum. You do what the job dictates you do.

And Babchuk was not supposed to be our #7 defenseman, he was our #5 to start the year and then broke his hand and lost his job and never got back in the lineup.

I have been very vocal about disliking Babchuk but he also got a raw deal from Sutter IMO. I think under Hartley he might just get a new lease and be our #6 defenseman, even though I would prefer he go back to the KHL where he belongs.

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06-09-2012, 05:22 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Medium Rare View Post
I wouldn't uses opinions of people in the media as anything to be honest, their job is to still things up. It's like Warrener he was always a stand up guy, now he is the lowest form of media scum. You do what the job dictates you do.

And Babchuk was not supposed to be our #7 defenseman, he was our #5 to start the year and then broke his hand and lost his job and never got back in the lineup.

I have been very vocal about disliking Babchuk but he also got a raw deal from Sutter IMO. I think under Hartley he might just get a new lease and be our #6 defenseman, even though I would prefer he go back to the KHL where he belongs.
It's one thing to say it while being essentially unemployed and then doing the opposite when resuming work. That's certainly scummy, but it happens all the time. But it's another to say one thing while unemployed, repeat the same sentiment when starting a new job and then doing the exact opposite when the first opportunity presents itself. I mean, yeah, I know he's a lawyer at heart. Doesn't mean he should get away with it. If Feaster never said anything about NTC's when starting out, there wouldn't be a problem here.

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06-09-2012, 05:35 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Calculon View Post
It's one thing to say it while being essentially unemployed and then doing the opposite when resuming work. That's certainly scummy, but it happens all the time. But it's another to say one thing while unemployed, repeat the same sentiment when starting a new job and then doing the exact opposite when the first opportunity presents itself. I mean, yeah, I know he's a lawyer at heart. Doesn't mean he should get away with it. If Feaster never said anything about NTC's when starting out, there wouldn't be a problem here.
how the hell has Feaster done the exact opposite? Christ he has signed 30 contracts since becoming GM, 3 have had any form of NTC and only 1 that we question and you are saying that is handing them out like candy? because that is the complete opposite of not handing them out like candy.

You seem to be taking "don't hand out NTC's like candy" as meaning never give out a NTC.

And we also aren't privy to negotiations, we aren't privy to Feaster's innermost thoughts nor are we privy to advice he received from his management team.

The Flames turned their season around after the Babchuk trade, due in part to his offensive contribution from the point. Feaster may have (I would say he very likely did) have misjudged Babchuk's value, but that doesn't mean he gave out the NTC lightly.

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06-09-2012, 05:49 PM
  #46
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Philly may do JVR for Bouwmeester straight up. Personally I'd be really torn on that trade. I'm a HUGE JVR fan, the Flyers are my 2nd favorite team. I watch a ton of their games and I love the way that guy plays. I'd be super pumped if he became a Flame. I think he's every bit as good as Bobby Ryan, he just had terrible luck last season. I think if he plays with Giroux next year all season that he'll break 70 points pretty easily.

It would suck to lose Bouw, but I'd love JVR. Opponents of this trade from the Flames perspective will say we don't need another LW especially at the cost of Bouw, and thats a valid point. But we don't have a single player like JVR on the Flames right now. He's a BIG forward, has great speed and has one hell of a shot. He also goes to the dirty areas and is a good front of the net presence.

I'd do it, others wouldn't want to though. I just think he has tremendous upside.
What do you think of this deal?
To Flyers:
Jay Bouwmeester
Backlund
4th round pick

To Flames:
JVR
Maxime Talbot
Rights to Matt carle

Is that overpayment by us? I think it is slightly but to get JVR were gonna have to overpay probablY

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06-09-2012, 05:51 PM
  #47
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A flyers fan on the main board suggested JVR for Gio, but we really have no need for JVR, we really need a centerman

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06-09-2012, 05:52 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calculon View Post
Off the top of my head;

After becoming the full time GM last year, Feaster, in his season ending press conference would state that he was opposed to NTC/NMC and would be extremely judicious in handing them out (not handing them out like 'candy', I think was the phrase he used). He then proceeds to give three NTC's out, one of which was to Babchuk, a 7th defensmen/PP specialist.

In those same press conferences, he would go on to say how important draft picks were. After already throwing away a 7th on an obviously finished Modin, throws away 5th for Leblond, a player who could have been picked up on waivers a couple of months later.

After trading that 7th for Modin, he would go on to say that he fully plans on getting it pack and that he wanted a pick in every round (2011 draft). Fails on both accounts.

After the stretch run in 2011 failed, he would emphatically state he wouldn't be fooled again. Whoops.

A week before the 2012 deadline, says major changes will be coming. At the deadline, does nothing. Although, granted, ownership may have had a some influence in the the last two points.
Saying he valued draft picks and trading them isn't lying he thought the player was more valuable how is that possibly lying?

I agree he should have moved people at the deadline but other than TKO and Jackman everyone else of value was hurt or had a NTC/NMC who knows if he tried or not.

The NTC ends on the trade deadline next year it was just insurance for Babchuck that he would have a spot next year.

I don't think any are examples of lying.

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06-09-2012, 05:56 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Medium Rare View Post
A flyers fan on the main board suggested JVR for Gio, but we really have no need for JVR, we really need a centerman
- The Flames are not and will not be cup contenders for the next few years
- We need to improve our forwards
- We need more scoring
- JVR is not a center but he adds scoring
- Therefore he could be PART of the solution to making this team BETTER

Do you get it now?

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06-09-2012, 05:59 PM
  #50
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A flyers fan on the main board suggested JVR for Gio, but we really have no need for JVR, we really need a centerman
What about JVR + Gustafsson for Gio + Comeau?

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