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Offseason moves part 2

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Old
06-09-2012, 06:00 PM
  #51
tyflames
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Medium Rare View Post
A flyers fan on the main board suggested JVR for Gio, but we really have no need for JVR, we really need a centerman
Well would you do the deal I proposed above?
To Flyers:
Jay Bouwmeester
Backlund
4th round pick

To Flames:
JVR
Maxime Talbot
Rights to Matt carle

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Old
06-09-2012, 06:00 PM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OrrwastheBeatles View Post
- The Flames are not and will not be cup contenders for the next few years
- We need to improve our forwards
- We need more scoring
- JVR is not a center but he adds scoring
- Therefore he could be PART of the solution to making this team BETTER

Do you get it now?
that might be a smart post if you had a point, you know like I did when you got schooled yet again.

learn the difference between a trading for a winger and signing a winger and then come back

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06-09-2012, 06:04 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by tyflames View Post
Well would you do the deal I proposed above?
To Flyers:
Jay Bouwmeester
Backlund
4th round pick

To Flames:
JVR
Maxime Talbot
Rights to Matt carle
why the **** would we do that? thats BRUTAL for the Flames, I am not talking in value because I have not even considered that.

Why would you suggest creating a gaping hole on our blueline by moving Bouwmeester and add to our already stacked left wing. Then on top of that you have us weakening our center depth even more for another winger? oh right and we get a pending UFA defenseman that maybe will sign.

Why would any Flames fan suggest weakening our 2 weakest positions just to add to our strengths?

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Old
06-09-2012, 06:05 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGleninator View Post
What about JVR + Gustafsson for Gio + Comeau?
I wouldn't consider moving Giordano unless there was a centerman coming our way.

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06-09-2012, 06:08 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Medium Rare View Post
I wouldn't consider moving Giordano unless there was a centerman coming our way.
That seems fair but I think bringing in a young winger always us to move Cammy for a centermen.

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06-09-2012, 06:09 PM
  #56
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I'm with MR. JVR. doesn't help us at all. The only proposals involving JVR should be Tangs, Cammy, Cervenka, not centremen or defensemen.

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Old
06-09-2012, 06:10 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by TheGleninator View Post
That seems fair but I think bringing in a young winger always us to move Cammy for a centermen.
moving a player from winger to center is never a good idea unless you have a backup plan, which we don't since Cammy going to center probably means Jokinen won't be coming back. Cammalleri is better on the wing, that's why he has been a winger his entire career.

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06-09-2012, 06:12 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Medium Rare View Post
moving a player from winger to center is never a good idea unless you have a backup plan, which we don't since Cammy going to center probably means Jokinen won't be coming back. Cammalleri is better on the wing, that's why he has been a winger his entire career.
I think you miss read that I meant trade Cammy for a young centermen to play with JVR.

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06-09-2012, 06:17 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by TheGleninator View Post
I think you miss read that I meant trade Cammy for a young centermen to play with JVR.
i did read it wrong lol. but i don't think Cammy has the value Gioradno does and i would want the best center possible

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06-09-2012, 06:18 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Medium Rare View Post
i did read it wrong lol. but i don't think Cammy has the value Gioradno does and i would want the best center possible
Agreed Gio value > Cammy value but a line of Sven - ? - JVR doesn't need the best centermen possible just a good one.

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Old
06-09-2012, 06:35 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Medium Rare View Post
how the hell has Feaster done the exact opposite? Christ he has signed 30 contracts since becoming GM, 3 have had any form of NTC and only 1 that we question and you are saying that is handing them out like candy? because that is the complete opposite of not handing them out like candy.

You seem to be taking "don't hand out NTC's like candy" as meaning never give out a NTC.

And we also aren't privy to negotiations, we aren't privy to Feaster's innermost thoughts nor are we privy to advice he received from his management team.

The Flames turned their season around after the Babchuk trade, due in part to his offensive contribution from the point. Feaster may have (I would say he very likely did) have misjudged Babchuk's value, but that doesn't mean he gave out the NTC lightly.
Of those 30 contracts, how many were actually eligible to receive them? 10? 15?

Babchuk, as I said, was excessive by any account. He may have been a part of the turnaround, but at the end of the day he was still a bottom pairing defensemen/PP specialist that needed to be protected at even strength. Giving a NTC to a depth defensemen just months after saying the previous management had made a mistake in handing out too many to too many role players, that clauses should be reserved for very special situations or they otherwise prevent managers from doing their job correctly was without a doubt, superfluous. And while the Tanguay and Glencross deals may have resulted in a cheaper cap hits, I'm not in favour of those either. I'd much rather they take an extra 0.5M to 1M in cap space but leave the team the option of trading them in a deal that benefits the club first and foremost.

When Feaster said he would be doing things differently, but then proceeds to that exact same thing Sutter did before him with regard to NTCs, then yes, that qualifies as doing that exact opposite of what he said.

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Old
06-09-2012, 06:36 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tyflames View Post
What do you think of this deal?
To Flyers:
Jay Bouwmeester
Backlund
4th round pick

To Flames:
JVR
Maxime Talbot
Rights to Matt carle

Is that ov
erpayment by us? I think it is slightly but to get JVR were gonna have to overpay probablY
Personally, I think its unnecessary. We lose Backlund basically to get the 'rights' to Carle. If we traded Bouwmeester, we could use his cap space to just overpay and sign Carle come July, 1st. But I don't think that is wise either, Carle is being massively over hyped due to the lack of quality FA's. Personally, I hope we stay away from Carle, I'd bet money he becomes the next big money overpaid player in the NHL that is seen as a negative asset.

I'm probably the wrong person to ask about this deal, the fan in me gets in the way of being objective about JVR. Others are right, if Gio or Bouw is moved it should be for a #1C or a top 4 dman + prospect. I'd love JVR, but we would need to make a secondary to deal to fill the hole on our backend.

Regarding your proposal, I'd keep it simple. Bouw for JVR straight up, and even then its debatable from the Flames perspective because we are dealing from a position that lacks depth.

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Old
06-09-2012, 06:43 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by MVW View Post
Personally, I think its unnecessary. We lose Backlund basically to get the 'rights' to Carle. If we traded Bouwmeester, we could use his cap space to just overpay and sign Carle come July, 1st. But I don't think that is wise either, Carle is being massively over hyped due to the lack of quality FA's. Personally, I hope we stay away from Carle, I'd bet money he becomes the next big money overpaid player in the NHL that is seen as a negative asset.

I'm probably the wrong person to ask about this deal, the fan in me gets in the way of being objective about JVR. Others are right, if Gio or Bouw is moved it should be for a #1C or a top 4 dman + prospect. I'd love JVR, but we would need to make a secondary to deal to fill the hole on our backend.

Regarding your proposal, I'd keep it simple. Bouw for JVR straight up, and even then its debatable from the Flames perspective because we are dealing from a position that lacks depth.
First off, thank you for an solid answer with good information, seems hard to come by on these boards. Anyway I understand we have weaknesses that need to be filled if we are losing players, that's why the deal would not work but I just thought it was a pretty solid trade.

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06-09-2012, 06:48 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tyflames View Post
Well would you do the deal I proposed above?
To Flyers:
Jay Bouwmeester
Backlund
4th round pick

To Flames:
JVR
Maxime Talbot
Rights to Matt carle
Personally I would pass we are dealing from a weakness (top 4 defensemen and centermen) and we are getting a winger which we have lots of. Talbot is a worse faceoff centermen than Backlund and doesn't have any more offense.

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Old
06-09-2012, 07:03 PM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tyflames View Post
First off, thank you for an solid answer with good information, seems hard to come by on these boards. Anyway I understand we have weaknesses that need to be filled if we are losing players, that's why the deal would not work but I just thought it was a pretty solid trade.
No problem, I to would like to see Feaster add one significant young piece like a JVR this offseason but realistically he is going to need to be extremely creative in doing so.

My guess is he thinks he has already done so with adding Cervenka, but no one knows how that is going to play out. Is he on the same scale as Radulov (minus the attitude) or will his game not translate to the NHL? I guess there is an associated risk with adding any young player, I am just cautiously optimistic with this signing.

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Old
06-09-2012, 08:50 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OrrwastheBeatles View Post
- The Flames are not and will not be cup contenders for the next few years
- We need to improve our forwards
- We need more scoring
- JVR is not a center but he adds scoring
- Therefore he could be PART of the solution to making this team BETTER

Do you get it now?
A marginal improvement in an area of strength at the cost of weakening the team's defense is kind of a dumb move...

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Old
06-09-2012, 10:15 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Medium Rare View Post
that might be a smart post if you had a point, you know like I did when you got schooled yet again.

learn the difference between a trading for a winger and signing a winger and then come back
Belligerence isn't schooling. Nice try though.

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Old
06-09-2012, 10:29 PM
  #68
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JVR's value probably isn't at its highest right now. Good thing for a team like us but there's a reason it's low. Toronto fans wouldn't even do Schenn for JVR

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Old
06-09-2012, 10:56 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by InfinityIggy View Post
Frk will be and early 2nd rounder. Should go anywhere from 30-40
I think he goes somewhere in the 2nd round too, but there is always a chance he falls because of the spotty play and injuries.

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Old
06-09-2012, 10:59 PM
  #70
Double Dion
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Originally Posted by Flamesjustwin View Post
You would not trade Bouw for Staal? Boy am I happy you are not Feaster! Giordano is a much better player than Bouwmeester and comes a lot cheaper.
He dislikes Gio and has a bit of a man crush of JBO. It doesn't matter what you say or how you back it up with evidence. He'll just continue and start the name calling. Don't bother.

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06-09-2012, 11:02 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by MarkGio View Post
I'm with MR. JVR. doesn't help us at all. The only proposals involving JVR should be Tangs, Cammy, Cervenka, not centremen or defensemen.
Cervenka was brought in to play center despite everyone on these boards thinking he'll be playing wing. Feaster outright said it, I don't understand why people keep putting him on the wing.

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06-09-2012, 11:08 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Calculon View Post
Of those 30 contracts, how many were actually eligible to receive them? 10? 15?

Babchuk, as I said, was excessive by any account. He may have been a part of the turnaround, but at the end of the day he was still a bottom pairing defensemen/PP specialist that needed to be protected at even strength. Giving a NTC to a depth defensemen just months after saying the previous management had made a mistake in handing out too many to too many role players, that clauses should be reserved for very special situations or they otherwise prevent managers from doing their job correctly was without a doubt, superfluous. And while the Tanguay and Glencross deals may have resulted in a cheaper cap hits, I'm not in favour of those either. I'd much rather they take an extra 0.5M to 1M in cap space but leave the team the option of trading them in a deal that benefits the club first and foremost.

When Feaster said he would be doing things differently, but then proceeds to that exact same thing Sutter did before him with regard to NTCs, then yes, that qualifies as doing that exact opposite of what he said.
Good post. I agree with you on the NTC thing. It's different with Glencross because he took 6 million less to stay here. I don't think Babchuk had any better offers. I have had two beefs with Feaster. The first is the NTC given to Babchuk. I like the one given to Glencross and was slightly disappointed with the one given to Tanguay (although I liked how he played this year).

The other is prattling on about "intellectual honesty" then not moving our UFA's when this team was clearly not a contender.

That said, I don't hate what he's done so far. I'm kind of taking a wait and see approach at this point. If we go into this year with the same roster, just subbing out Jokinen for Cervenka and Bartschi for Stempniak then I've seen enough. This team is in need of some major changes.

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Old
06-10-2012, 12:06 AM
  #73
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If we're going to put every interview under the microscrope, then yes, Feaster will be a bad GM. The guy gives PR interviews, and as a typical chatty, lawyer extrovert, he's going to say too many things to keep the fans hopeful. He's actually done a lot of things that remind me of Sutter, such as keep the media in the dark. He did, after all, kind of mentor Sutter for a while.

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Old
06-10-2012, 12:48 PM
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Double Dion View Post
The other is prattling on about "intellectual honesty" then not moving our UFA's when this team was clearly not a contender.
I was POed that he didn't move Joker/Sarich/etc. at the deadline as well, but in his defence he mentioned at one of the STH lunches that they tried to make some deals that fell through. Now I personally think he should've been willing to accept "rip-off" deals as well (e.g. Joker for a 2nd rounder, whatever) since those UFAs were almost certain to be unsigned as of this off-season, but he did try to some extent.

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06-10-2012, 12:51 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by SmellOfVictory View Post
I was POed that he didn't move Joker/Sarich/etc. at the deadline as well, but in his defence he mentioned at one of the STH lunches that they tried to make some deals that fell through. Now I personally think he should've been willing to accept "rip-off" deals as well (e.g. Joker for a 2nd rounder, whatever) since those UFAs were almost certain to be unsigned as of this off-season, but he did try to some extent.
We are currently trying to sign Jokinen trading him would have been a mistake but moving Sarich/ Hannan and TKO should have been done. But as said he tried I doubt 7th round picks would have done alot for us.

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