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Yandle for Staal Rumour (via Eklund)

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Old
06-09-2012, 10:35 PM
  #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinurgy View Post
I was merely giving him crap and I was doing so because the dude is a broken record.

A disproportionate amount of his posts involve his endorsement of trading Yandle. I don't know much about BUX7PHX but what I do know is the trading of Yandle is apparently very very important to him.
I don't think it is your place to "give him crap". Again, he is entitled to his opinion. If you disagree, fine. Some of your arguments are strong and accurate and it should stay at that. There is never a need to make it personal. There is never an excuse to demean.

I find Bux's posts insightful and well written.


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06-09-2012, 11:12 PM
  #127
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Originally Posted by SniperHF View Post
Can we afford 5.5m in one guy though and still keep Whitney? I remember you were running some numbers last week.
Absolutely, yes. Absolutely no doubt about it. One hundred percent. Emphatically YES.

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06-09-2012, 11:18 PM
  #128
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Absolutely, yes. Absolutely no doubt about it. One hundred percent. Emphatically YES.
Great, I have been looking at Roy too. Do you have any concerns about size in this division though?

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06-09-2012, 11:23 PM
  #129
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During the playoffs I felt that what we really needed from a 'no 1 centre' was someone who could slow the play down and establish some offensive zone time. Is Staal that guy, is it worth Yandle to find out? I am not so sure.

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06-09-2012, 11:25 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by drgregg View Post
Great, I have been looking at Roy too. Do you have any concerns about size in this division though?
I do actually, but I'd rather have a 5'9 guy with 75pt ability than a 6'1 guy with 40pt ability.

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06-09-2012, 11:29 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by rt View Post
I do actually, but I'd rather have a 5'9 guy with 75pt ability than a 6'1 guy with 40pt ability.
Fair enough, my dream choice would be Ribeiro. If only we weren't in the same division, ah well

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06-09-2012, 11:43 PM
  #132
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Originally Posted by drgregg View Post
Fair enough, my dream choice would be Ribeiro. If only we weren't in the same division, ah well
I personally consider Roy much bigger than Ribs. To me 5'9 190 is way bigger than 6'0 170. Ribeiro is a fantastic player though, and seems to love playing for Tippett. I think Roy would fit in pretty well, though. I like guys that never quit buzzing around. Our forecheck and our PP especially could use a player like him.

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06-10-2012, 12:00 AM
  #133
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Originally Posted by rt View Post
I personally consider Roy much bigger than Ribs. To me 5'9 190 is way bigger than 6'0 170. Ribeiro is a fantastic player though, and seems to love playing for Tippett. I think Roy would fit in pretty well, though. I like guys that never quit buzzing around. Our forecheck and our PP especially could use a player like him.
I saw Roy's height and didn't even note the weight. If he is 190 that is a thick solid guy, you're absolutely right. If he is a guy who's 'motor never stops running' and with his offensive talent, I hope he is on GMDM's radar. He could come a lot more cheaply than Staal.

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06-10-2012, 01:42 AM
  #134
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Originally Posted by Redcoyote View Post
Good enough for what? A chance at making the playoffs and maybe win a round or two if smith plays out of his mind?
I don't know, we were contending this season and I'm pretty sure that Stoll or Lombardi would be better than Langkow.

Rather than trading away Yandle for a #2 center like Staal, assuming our budget goes a bit higher, I'd go with the centers I listed, keep most of team intact and upgrade a winger by going hard for one of Nash, Parise or Gaborik.

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06-10-2012, 09:40 AM
  #135
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Originally Posted by OEL View Post
I don't know, we were contending this season and I'm pretty sure that Stoll or Lombardi would be better than Langkow.

Rather than trading away Yandle for a #2 center like Staal, assuming our budget goes a bit higher, I'd go with the centers I listed, keep most of team intact and upgrade a winger by going hard for one of Nash, Parise or Gaborik.
We are going to have to spend to reach the cap floor for sure, assuming it increases like it's supposed to after a new CBA is agreed on.

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06-10-2012, 11:13 AM
  #136
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Originally Posted by OEL View Post
I don't know, we were contending this season and I'm pretty sure that Stoll or Lombardi would be better than Langkow.

Rather than trading away Yandle for a #2 center like Staal, assuming our budget goes a bit higher, I'd go with the centers I listed, keep most of team intact and upgrade a winger by going hard for one of Nash, Parise or Gaborik.
If we could get a combo of Lombardi and Nash or a combo of Stoll and Gaborik Id be happy. Dont get me wrong I like both Lombardi and Stoll Im just not sold that either one alone would address our issues. We need someone who can be dynamic offensively but also fit into Tippetts system. Weve seen guys like Mueller, Turris, Wolski who think just because they can be good offensively that they dont have to play defense or work hard.

Gaborik-Vermette-Doan
Whitney-Hanzal-Vrbata
Boedker-Stoll-Korpikoski
Torres-Gordon-Pyatt/Chip

or

Boedker-Vermette-Nash
Whitney-Hanzal-Vrbata
Korpi-Lombardi-Doan
Torres-Gordon-Pyatt/Chip

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06-10-2012, 11:52 AM
  #137
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Originally Posted by Sinurgy View Post
Players like OEL and Gormley?! Gormley has never played a single shift in the NHL, hell he's barely even played in the AHL. I am not willing to assume Gormley is the next Yandle or OEL. The percentage of top prospects that fail to deliver is far greater than those who actually live up to the hype. Heck the Coyotes are already beating the odds by having both Yandle and OEL. People need to stop talking about Gormley like he's already a star in the NHL, he needs to prove it first before his name should be mentioned in the same breath as Yandle and OEL.
Isn't that the truth.

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06-10-2012, 11:55 AM
  #138
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Originally Posted by KevyD View Post
I don't think it is your place to "give him crap". Again, he is entitled to his opinion. If you disagree, fine. Some of your arguments are strong and accurate and it should stay at that. There is never a need to make it personal. There is never an excuse to demean.

I find Bux's posts insightful and well written.

As it is not your place to discipline Sinurgy.

After all buxy's continued commitment to trading Yandle is nothing short of insanity.

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06-10-2012, 12:14 PM
  #139
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Originally Posted by kihekah19 View Post
As it is not your place to discipline Sinurgy.
You got me there.



Nice to see you, K19. You have been missing from the BoH board for a long time now.


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06-10-2012, 12:26 PM
  #140
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Unless Malkin or Crosby is coming the other way by selling too much of our future in the process, I don't see Yandle in Pittsburgh.

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06-10-2012, 03:24 PM
  #141
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Originally Posted by kihekah19 View Post
As it is not your place to discipline Sinurgy.

After all buxy's continued commitment to trading Yandle is nothing short of insanity.
I have always maintained that a defense for forward swap would be best to get a legitimate threat. Even last year, I would have loved to send Jovo packing, but his injury and contract hurt those chances.

For Yandle, it is also about the money side of things. rt made it clear that we could afford Whitney still. What about Maloney going on record to state that he would like to get Smith extended with a new deal? While it would be nice to presume that Jamison would be willing to add $3 million or so in salary, I just don't see that happening. We could pick up Lombardi or someone like that at C, and as someone said, we'd re-evaluate at the trade deadline. Guess what? We'd still be in the same boat, in which we'd need a top 6 forward. We can re-evaluate, but the same conclusion would be drawn - we have a glut of D-men that can be used to upgrade our forwards.

Looking at the defensemen individually, it is safe to say that our return would be limited (i.e. getting a top 6 forward) for the following D: Morris, Schlemko, Summers, Stone, Rundblad.

Klesla is our only true stay-at-home man with size, so the likelihood of trading him is slim, IMO. That leaves Yandle, OEL, and Gormley as our options for a return.

For OEL, all I can say is that the Norris hype is real, and if the addage is that your best players get more minutes in the playoffs, when the games matter most, then it is clear that our coaching staff believes that OEL is a more trusted player both now and in the future. Plus, we still retain RFA rights for OEL, and have leverage in his next payday.

Sinurgy was and is absolutely correct that Gormley has yet to play in the NHL, and may not even pan out. My argument is that in his draft year, Gormley was viewed as a top 10 pick and slid to us. In Yandle's case, he was passed up 100+ times by organizations. This included having mofre impressive point totals than Gormley. So what gives? The answeris probably as simple as while talent level is probably comparable, scouts felt there were more holes in Yandle's game at the time. Whether that is an aptitude or attitude or both thing, the development curve for Gormley is likely to produce a better player for the future. Yandle has worked on addressing some of the deficiencies in his game, but that doesn't mean he is immune to those.

For an immediate return, with some level of a safety net in Gormley, Yandle is our best option to trade. We could pick up Corvo (whose stats are in the range of Yandle's) for half the cost and be able to accomodate all of our offseason goals, team and budget wise. I don't know if you could say the same by drawing the line in the sand of keeping Yandle...

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06-10-2012, 05:06 PM
  #142
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I am not opposed to trading Yandle but I would want full value for him. No way should we give him away at a discount to fill a need like suggesting we trade him with 2 extra picks for Stall who is injured often and hasn't really proven that he is a more valuable player then Yandle. Plus Yandle wants to be in the desert. How do we know if after making a big sacrifice like that, that we will actually have a number 1 center who wants to be there? I like Stall's size and his style of play but if I was Maloney, I would be nervous to pull the trigger on this one. What if it pans out like Joikenen?

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06-10-2012, 05:15 PM
  #143
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^^^^^^^

And, correct me if I am wrong, Yandle hasn't exactly excelled in the playoffs.

**

Perhaps I am "misremembering" but I recall posters wishing for a Top Line Center during the season and playoffs. Keeping in mind that this is a weak D-Heavy draft and financially the Coyotes cannot afford a high priced free agent, unless you are willing to trade a quality player, how do you expect the Coyotes to obtain a Top Line Center?

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06-10-2012, 05:16 PM
  #144
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Originally Posted by AP View Post
Unless Malkin or Crosby is coming the other way by selling too much of our future in the process, I don't see Yandle in Pittsburgh.
You could send 3 Yandles to Pittsburgh and you would not get Crosby or Malkin - altho I doubt you were being literal.


Last edited by OttawaRoughRiderFan: 06-10-2012 at 05:44 PM.
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06-10-2012, 05:36 PM
  #145
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Originally Posted by KevyD View Post

And, correct me if I am wrong, Yandle hasn't exactly excelled in the playoffs.
I think you're wrong.

Was he not the top scoring defenseman going into the WCF ?

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06-10-2012, 05:43 PM
  #146
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I think you're wrong.

Was he not the top scoring defenseman going into the WCF ?
Fair enough. However, I do remember posters complaining about his playoff performance - albeit, most of the criticism was prior to this year and all of it was defence related

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06-10-2012, 05:45 PM
  #147
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Originally Posted by BUX7PHX View Post
My argument is that in his draft year, Gormley was viewed as a top 10 pick and slid to us. In Yandle's case, he was passed up 100+ times by organizations. This included having mofre impressive point totals than Gormley. So what gives? The answeris probably as simple as while talent level is probably comparable, scouts felt there were more holes in Yandle's game at the time. Whether that is an aptitude or attitude or both thing, the development curve for Gormley is likely to produce a better player for the future. Yandle has worked on addressing some of the deficiencies in his game, but that doesn't mean he is immune to those..
This is a strange tangent to your argument. Yandle was in prep school hockey hence his lack of exposure (as opposed to Gormley's publicity). He went to the Q immediately following the draft and dominated the league from the start, winning Defenseman of the Year.

So based on a draft that happened 7 years ago you'd consider Yandle to be deficient and yet he accomplished so much immediately afterwards. Nothing about that analysis makes sense.

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06-10-2012, 05:48 PM
  #148
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Originally Posted by Redcoyote View Post
Dont get me wrong I like both Lombardi and Stoll Im just not sold that either one alone would address our issues.
With the addition of Vermette and Hanzal's maturity I no longer think we're that weak in the middle. Both guys created opportunities and didn't seem overmatched.

I'm more concerned about our wingers. Boedker looked good, and so did Doan, but having Vrbata and Whitney as our most reliable scorers scares the **** out of me. One is streaky, the other's getting old. These guys should be our secondary scorers. And we got the most we can from Pyatt / Korpikoski / Brule / Chipchurra.

We really need an upgrade on our finishing touch. What hurt us more than anything was a lack of execution (scoring winger), not a lack of opportunities (playmaking center).

I love the idea of having 3 scoring lines with equal minutes. It's worked out pretty well for us so far.


Last edited by zz: 06-11-2012 at 04:31 PM.
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06-10-2012, 06:10 PM
  #149
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Vermette is a 2b center, Hanzal is a 2b center, we need either a #1 center or a #2a center, to control the play.

Our "D" next season should get better, Yandle will have a better year, DeMo who played well down the stretch seems to have left the early season "horridness" behind and with improved play from the youngsters (OEL, Stone, etc...) the "D" should be better.

Smith has to continue playing well and we need a bounce back year to something mediocre from Lolbarbara.

Yes, we could also use another scoring winger to put on whoever is the new center and Korpikoski so we can have 3 scoring lines and then Pyatt/Gordon/Torres can hold down the fort defensively.

Doan/Vermette/Boeds
Whitney/Hanzal/Vrby
Korpi/Lombardi/ ?
Pyatt/Gordon/Torres

With the talent on the UFA market (assuming we keep Doan/Whitney) there isn't much out there, GMDM is going to have to trade for a scoring winger if we want one.

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06-10-2012, 06:35 PM
  #150
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Originally Posted by Gwyddbwyll View Post
This is a strange tangent to your argument. Yandle was in prep school hockey hence his lack of exposure (as opposed to Gormley's publicity). He went to the Q immediately following the draft and dominated the league from the start, winning Defenseman of the Year.

So based on a draft that happened 7 years ago you'd consider Yandle to be deficient and yet he accomplished so much immediately afterwards. Nothing about that analysis makes sense.
I can agree with this, and scouting, in general has improved to where fewer players slip through the cracks now. Brian Lee, TJ Oshie, and Matt Niskanen (all 1st round picks from Yandle's draft) went to prep school. That's why I mentioned the aptitude/attitude, maybe that was a reason for sliding in the draft, due to indecision of college or the QJMHL.

There are also players who wind up being late bloomers, which may have been the case with Keith.

It still means that Keith was probably less consistent on a game to game, shift to shift basis. He has improved in that regard, but still has some inconsistencies that make you wonder what he is thinking/doing on certain plays. As rt said, if he regains 2010-11 form, where I thought he did a much better job of playing the man in transition on D, the point may be moot. It's funny how improving your D actually led to his best season offensively. I do think that he expects his offense to carry him through, no matter what he does on D. Which is probably where my issues with him come in. This is probably my opinion, but I would rather have D-men who are focused on D. Then, the offense comes into play. Klesla is a perfect example. He will play great physical D down low, but he had several times where he jumped into the play and was able to get a timely goal, without sacrificing position. I just do not know if Yandle has learned the on/off switch of when to jump in to the play without getting out of position...

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