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Old
06-10-2012, 05:38 PM
  #26
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None of the UFA's outside of Suter are top pairing. That includes Garrison and Carle, both are 2nd pairing dmen pushed up to a top roll. We're not winning a cup with them.

If they sign to a not too long deal worth less than $4 M then fine but if they're getting a Ron Hainsey type of contract then it'll be a problem.

I think Garrison's goals and pts dropped off later in the season despite the offensive situations he was allowed to play in. Not saying he's bad or anything but whoever gets him will overpay and I didn't think he was anything special in the NJ series.

People didn't want Liles cos he was $4 M....well he's not too far off from this group so this isn't an upgrade. This needs to be addressed via trade or development.

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06-10-2012, 06:19 PM
  #27
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Pass on Garrison. He played with Campbell so his stats rose, plus playing in the Southeast is easier then other Divisions IMO. Look at Bouwmeester. They're very similar players, big men who can eat up minutes and put up respectable numbers however they don't use their big bodies nearly enough.

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06-10-2012, 08:28 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Renegade Stylings View Post
I think heading into the off-season, this is the biggest hole that the Avalanche currently have on their roster. The only other area that might give it a run is on the wings, but we're still ok in that area now with the likes of Downie, McGinn, Mueller, Landeskog, Hejduk and Jones back in the mix for next year.

I think it's safe to say the ideal fit for the team is UFA Ryan Suter. It's almost a lock that he'll be leaving the Predators, hitting the open market and likely locking down a huge deal.

We have an ideal spot for him, on the left hand side, beside Erik Johnson. They're both Americans and we have the cash to spend, but I think it's a pipe-dream to expect him to sign in Denver. My bet is that he lands in Detroit, taking up the spot left vacant by the retiring Nick Lidstrom. It just makes too much sense for it to not happen.

But that list includes the guy I want the most, Jason Garrison. He would play on our top PP, play 24+ minutes a night, move the puck well and defend ok. He would essentially be the guy that the organization hoped Kyle Quincey would become. With that being said, I expect him to also sign elsewhere. Probably Vancouver, because he has already expressed a known interest of landing there.

The list above doesn't include the one guy I just have a hunch we'll be after. That guy is Matt Carle, a player who has spent the last few years playing with the Flyers.

He's 27 years old, a left handed shot, played 23 minutes per night last season and is coming off of 3 straight seasons of 35+ points.

He's not a great defender, but he fits what we need. A left handed puck mover who can play minutes. It was clear that we went through long stretches this season without getting good pucking moving play from our D. That's why Matt Hunwick stuck out so much this year, because he did an alright job of it. He will still fill that role as a bottom pairing guy. He's not able to play big minutes.

I think ideally we would want a guy who is better defensively than Carle is, but the options are limited. I'm still comfortable with the rest of our D's ability to play defensively, guys like Hejda, O'Byrne, Johnson and Wilson are all good enough for now.

So in my opinion they will go after Carle, with him eventually signing somewhere in July for 4-5 years at roughly $4 or $5 million per season.

Who do you think this team could be after?
- As others have stated, I certainly don't think it's a slam dunk in Detroit. I'm quite certain that players can see that Detroit is by no means guaranteed to continue being a top team. Datsyuk is going to be 34, Zetterberg 32...these guys are going to start to slow down at some point and they've just lost arguably the best defenseman the game has ever seen. Those are some mighty big shoes to fill and the expectations WILL be there, you can believe it.

- I have to disagree with Garrison. I do think he ends up signing a fairly big deal but I think it's probably going to be with a team like...Dallas or something. That's when I'll get the popcorn ready because I can't wait to see this guy try to live up to a big, fat contract after essentially only two and half years in the league. Hey, I hope I'm wrong and the guy does well but I'm pretty much expecting another Jeff Finger situation although not THAT bad. For whatever reason, I can see him joining the WRONG 'fit' and going for the highest dollar and it just won't end well.

- I've been saying Matt Carle for a long while now but to fit in as our EVENTUAL #3 guy. He might need to play top pairing minutes next season because that guy hasn't arrived yet. (unless we actually DO get Suter)

To answer your question, I feel that if we miss out on Suter, we might make an eventual trade for a guy like Marc Staal as long as he's fully healthy. This might come at next year's deadline or next summer but if that were to happen, expect the Avs to part with an important piece to get him.

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Originally Posted by Avsare1 View Post
I really just cannot see Suter signing in Detroit. Everything that has been said about how highly he values his family and what he wants in the city he mvoes to just makes me think there no chance he goes to Detroit.

Especially after what Poile said the other day, I just cant see him going to Detroit.

I think its either Nashville, Colorado, or Minnesota for Suter, each city fits what his family wants/needs and all have the money to spend on him.
For some reason, I was thinking that he would sign in San Jose but the Stuart trade pretty much rules that out. I think the Avs have a really good chance of landing Suter, (better than what people think) I think the area is what he's looking for, the franchise is on the rise for the foreseeable future and the expectations on him will not be anything close to what he'd get in a bigger market.

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Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
I hate to support Detroit here, but as someone who lives in the greater Philadelphia region I have to state this.

Just because the city sucks, doesn't mean the regions outside the city wouldn't be what Suter is interested in. I have no idea what the suburban areas are like outside Detroit, but it isn't out of the question for rich people to purchase lavish homes a half hour outside where they play and settle down there.

In fact, most Philly sports stars live in NJ. I would assume most Detroit sports stars live outside of Detroit.
It's not really about living in a specific neighborhood but rather than a general area. Suter's played as a visitor in both cities and if all we're hearing is true, (easy-going farmboy type and all that) Colorado is a MUCH better fit than Detroit. Minnesota is probably a similar fit to Colorado but being from that area, does he really want to go back 'home'? (I don't know the answer to that but not all players want to move to Vancouver to sign for the minimum like Sakic )

Having said all that, I'm not really expecting the Avs to sign Ryan Suter July 1st but if it were to happen, I wouldn't be surprised. All things being equal (term+yearly wage) he could do a lot worse than plan to raise his family in Colorado for the next 7-8 years.

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06-10-2012, 09:25 PM
  #29
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Pass on Garrison. He played with Campbell so his stats rose, plus playing in the Southeast is easier then other Divisions IMO. Look at Bouwmeester. They're very similar players, big men who can eat up minutes and put up respectable numbers however they don't use their big bodies nearly enough.
Bouwmeester is still a solid d-man. He's just not worth his contract.

It depends on how high the bidding war goes. I'd be interested, but if we can't get him for under 5 i'd pass.

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06-10-2012, 09:43 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bender View Post


For some reason, I was thinking that he would sign in San Jose but the Stuart trade pretty much rules that out. I think the Avs have a really good chance of landing Suter, (better than what people think) I think the area is what he's looking for, the franchise is on the rise for the foreseeable future and the expectations on him will not be anything close to what he'd get in a bigger market.



It's not really about living in a specific neighborhood but rather than a general area. Suter's played as a visitor in both cities and if all we're hearing is true, (easy-going farmboy type and all that) Colorado is a MUCH better fit than Detroit. Minnesota is probably a similar fit to Colorado but being from that area, does he really want to go back 'home'? (I don't know the answer to that but not all players want to move to Vancouver to sign for the minimum like Sakic )

Having said all that, I'm not really expecting the Avs to sign Ryan Suter July 1st but if it were to happen, I wouldn't be surprised. All things being equal (term+yearly wage) he could do a lot worse than plan to raise his family in Colorado for the next 7-8 years.

Ecklund has gotten a terrible rep for making up crap, and maybe sometimes he does. But he makes up crap so he gets more hits on his site. When he all but eliminates team like Toronto, Montreal, Boston, Philly etc. from having a chance at Suter, and says teams like Colorado and Minnesota have a real shot at him, you better believe him. This is why I really believe him right now, he's saying all of the biggest fan bases dont have chance at Suter, that would generally decrease the number of hits his site gets.

And yea, Detroit is gonna slow down in the not to distant future, theyve already shown signs of it this year, not winning there Division anf getting ousted fairly early and quietly in the playoffs. Suter knows this. Combine that to the fact that Detroit isnt a great place for a family(even if he could live in a nice place 30 mins out, thats still pretty close to a pretty unsafe city), and its a media Hotspot(something he also doesnt want to deal with), AND would have a tonne of pressure to replace Lidstrom.

I really just cannot see him signing in Detroit. At this point the biggest obstical between Suter and the Avs IMO is our own managment. They havent done anything in the last 3-4 years to show that they are willing to spend to the cap, or even above the floor for that matter. Now they have said that when the time is right they would spend the neccesary funds to make this team a contender, and while right now to us fans would look like the prime time to spend that money, its still yet to be seen if that holds true for managment. I have been saying for the last couple of years that I do think managment will spend, but its still yet to be seen.

If managment decides to spend money, and there willing to offer Suter a 7-7.5M contract, Im confident we'll have a REALLY good chance at signing him, but Im not sure managment is prepared to go out and spend that money this year or not.

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06-10-2012, 10:11 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Avsare1 View Post
If managment decides to spend money, and there willing to offer Suter a 7-7.5M contract, Im confident we'll have a REALLY good chance at signing him, but Im not sure managment is prepared to go out and spend that money this year or not.
If Suter wants a long term deal like he's been saying, he's not going to get 7-7.5 mill/year. It'll be around 5.5 - 6.5 mill average. My bet is on 6 x 6, front loaded, like Erhoff's.

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06-10-2012, 10:22 PM
  #32
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I agree.

I can't even count how many people have told me that Detroit is a terrible city to live in. Young UFA's like Suter, Parise etc.. wont pick Detroit to be the place they settle for many years.

Players who go to play for the Wings are those who want to go there for a year or two hoping they can win the cup right away.

I'm sure Suter wants to win the cup too, but i don't see him going to Detroit for 5, 6 or 7 years.
I'm an Avs fan from the metro Detroit area and it's a fine place to live (besides all the hypocritical arrogant red wings fans). They could definitely end up there, which sucks. I don't want Suter or Parise living in the same state as me.

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06-10-2012, 11:01 PM
  #33
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If Suter wants a long term deal like he's been saying, he's not going to get 7-7.5 mill/year. It'll be around 5.5 - 6.5 mill average. My bet is on 6 x 6, front loaded, like Erhoff's.
I disagree entirely. There will be teams prepared to offer him at least 7M, and at a lengthy term aswell.

I would easily give him 7M for 7 years say. And in the UFA Market, it could easily be alot more.

No way Suter signs for just 6M.

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06-10-2012, 11:47 PM
  #34
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If Suter wants a long term deal like he's been saying, he's not going to get 7-7.5 mill/year. It'll be around 5.5 - 6.5 mill average. My bet is on 6 x 6, front loaded, like Erhoff's.
You think Suter is only going to get 2 million more and 2 more years than David Jones? Suter will easily get over 7 and I'd be willing to pay it.

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06-11-2012, 04:08 AM
  #35
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You think Suter is only going to get 2 million more and 2 more years than David Jones? Suter will easily get over 7 and I'd be willing to pay it.
I think so too. I'm thinking he ends up with a 7 year $50m deal from a regular playoff contender.

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06-11-2012, 09:06 AM
  #36
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Wideman is the answer as far as this FA is concerned, Suter is the main prize but while teams go after him we should try to steal Wideman.

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06-11-2012, 09:43 AM
  #37
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I'd take Wideman over Carle.

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06-11-2012, 10:35 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by RTN View Post
I think Suter will become overpaid for his skill level, so I'd like the Avs to stay away from him.

What about a guy like Jackman? Don't know what side he plays on and didn't get a chance to see him play this year.

Go Hrvatska!
How do you overpay a top 5-10 defencemen in the NHL?

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06-11-2012, 10:41 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by KRM93 View Post
Pass on Garrison. He played with Campbell so his stats rose, plus playing in the Southeast is easier then other Divisions IMO. Look at Bouwmeester. They're very similar players, big men who can eat up minutes and put up respectable numbers however they don't use their big bodies nearly enough.
Garrison's increase in PP time was a much bigger influence on his stats than just getting to play with Campbell. Plus he's a much tougher and better defensive player than Bouwmeester ever was, and he won't get nearly as absurd of a contract. He's an excellent defender with an excellent shot who makes a nice breakout pass. He's not great at skating the puck up, but him and EJ would former a shutdown pairing defensively that's dangerous offensively. Dude gets under-rated on this board. If Siemens ends up as good as Garrison we should all be pleased, but because we get the finished product for a fair contract rather than the raw version, all of a sudden people want to whine about him.


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06-11-2012, 11:53 AM
  #40
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I'd take Wideman over Carle.
I wouldn't. Some of you guys think Carle is bad defensively...I think Wideman is worse!

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How do you overpay a top 5-10 defencemen in the NHL?
Well, let's say that Chara is the best D-man in the league right now and he earns $7.5M per season. Just pay Suter more than that and there you have it!

I know what you mean but Chara's contract should be the barometer for all of the best d-men in the league. I can imagine Suter getting as much as that but I don't see him making much more than that.

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06-11-2012, 12:03 PM
  #41
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I wouldn't. Some of you guys think Carle is bad defensively...I think Wideman is worse!



Well, let's say that Chara is the best D-man in the league right now and he earns $7.5M per season. Just pay Suter more than that and there you have it!

I know what you mean but Chara's contract should be the barometer for all of the best d-men in the league. I can imagine Suter getting as much as that but I don't see him making much more than that.
CHara's also much older and not going to help his team for as long. I have no issue with a team paying someone near his caliber more than him, if he can help the team for the better part of a decade to come.

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06-11-2012, 12:05 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by PuddlesTheDuck View Post
Wideman is the answer as far as this FA is concerned, Suter is the main prize but while teams go after him we should try to steal Wideman.
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I'd take Wideman over Carle.
Gross. We need like the exact opposite to put with EJ, not another defensive mess in Wideman.

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06-11-2012, 12:17 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by PuddlesTheDuck View Post
Wideman is the answer as far as this FA is concerned, Suter is the main prize but while teams go after him we should try to steal Wideman.
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I'd take Wideman over Carle.
Except our hole on the blueline is mostly on the left-hand side. Wideman is a righty and we all know how Sacco is always looking to play guys LH - RH.

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06-11-2012, 12:24 PM
  #44
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It's crazy how well Suter fits the team's pedigree

American ✔
Left Handed Shot ✔
Hardworking ✔
Not flashy ✔
Some grit ✔
Team in America ✔
Team full of Americans ✔
Leader ✔

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06-11-2012, 01:09 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Granlund2Pulkkinen View Post
It's crazy how well Suter fits the team's pedigree

American ✔
Left Handed Shot ✔
Hardworking ✔
Not flashy ✔
Some grit ✔
Team in America ✔
Team full of Americans ✔
Leader ✔
Agree 100%. Sherm needs to make this happen. I'd gladly overpay to have Suter on this team.

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06-11-2012, 01:21 PM
  #46
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If Suter wants a long term deal like he's been saying, he's not going to get 7-7.5 mill/year. It'll be around 5.5 - 6.5 mill average. My bet is on 6 x 6, front loaded, like Erhoff's.
Ryan Suter, at the age of 27, is quite possibly the most attractive defenseman to hit the open market in the last 4-5 years. There have been d-men who are arguably better than him who've reached UFA status, but none of them were under 30 years old like Suter is.

This UFA negotiation for Suter will EASILY be his best and only opportunity to sign a great contract to take him close to his retirement years. I have absolutely NO DOUBT that he will sign a contract that will take him to 35+.
For Suter to sign a 6 year contract would jeopardize his chances of signing a lifetime contract as a lot can happen in those 6 years. He's played well enough to be paid like a top 10 dman and will likely seize that opportunity.

Whats worse is that its become known that he wants to test the market. Every team in the league will come knocking on the door to see what demands he has. Will they all have a chance? very unlikely. But he's definitely going to listen to what they all have to say.

Id be willing to bet he signs something around a 10-12 year contract. He will absolutely take this opportunity to set himself, his family, and his children financially for the rest of his career.

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06-11-2012, 01:31 PM
  #47
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I would grossly overpay Suter... if he wants 7 years I'd give him $8 mil a year.

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06-11-2012, 01:32 PM
  #48
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Ryan Suter, at the age of 27, is quite possibly the most attractive defenseman to hit the open market in the last 4-5 years. There have been d-men who are arguably better than him who've reached UFA status, but none of them were under 30 years old like Suter is.

This UFA negotiation for Suter will EASILY be his best and only opportunity to sign a great contract to take him close to his retirement years. I have absolutely NO DOUBT that he will sign a contract that will take him to 35+.
For Suter to sign a 6 year contract would jeopardize his chances of signing a lifetime contract as a lot can happen in those 6 years. He's played well enough to be paid like a top 10 dman and will likely seize that opportunity.

Whats worse is that its become known that he wants to test the market. Every team in the league will come knocking on the door to see what demands he has. Will they all have a chance? very unlikely. But he's definitely going to listen to what they all have to say.

Id be willing to bet he signs something around a 10-12 year contract. He will absolutely take this opportunity to set himself, his family, and his children financially for the rest of his career.
And you'd be right. My guess is he'll get 72mil over 11 years.

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06-11-2012, 01:32 PM
  #49
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Show Suter $8 Million a year for 7 years, then hand the man a burgundy and blue jersey

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06-11-2012, 01:39 PM
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And you'd be right. My guess is he'll get 72mil over 11 years.
I'd do that deal everyday of the week. I'd probably go as high as 84 mil over 12 years with the first few years having salaries of 10-12 million.

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