Vancouver makes out like bandits here. Luongo (poor value) and Raymond (RFA) for JVR and 2nd rounder?
Toronto's not interested in moving Schenn + 2nd for Luongo, I can tell you that.
I doubt Philly's interested in Raymond, too. They're pretty stacked in their top-9 and Raymond doesn't exactly play Flyers-brand hockey.
How about this (leave Luongo out of this, we'll use other assets): Toronto gives up Schenn + 2nd (2012) for JVR + 2nd (2013). Philly unites the Schenn brothers, improves their D which is facing uncertainty because of Pronger's injury, and saves $625,000 annually.
That was meant to be Raymond at his qualifier. And no thanks to your deal. I'd consider Schenn and a 2nd for JVR by himself, though.
What about instead of next year's 2nd rounder you give up this year's 3rd rounder.
You end up moving up 43 spots in this year's draft.
Schenn + 35th for JVR + 78th
No. JVR is worth more than Schenn. No need for the Flyers to add. The whole point of the three way deal is that we get another decent player, and the Leafs give up the second rounder that, along with Schenn, would make a JVR trade even.
No. JVR is worth more than Schenn. No need for the Flyers to add. The whole point of the three way deal is that we get another decent player, and the Leafs give up the second rounder that, along with Schenn, would make a JVR trade even.
JVR isn't worth anything at all if he doesn't have surgery to fix his ailment. No one will offer anything with that big question mark.
No. JVR is worth more than Schenn. No need for the Flyers to add. The whole point of the three way deal is that we get another decent player, and the Leafs give up the second rounder that, along with Schenn, would make a JVR trade even.
Let me ask you a question: Would you trade JVR straight up for Luongo and his contract tomorrow, if you didn't have a #1 goalie? Just trying to gauge how much you value JVR.
Let me ask you a question: Would you trade JVR straight up for Luongo and his contract tomorrow, if you didn't have a #1 goalie? Just trying to gauge how much you value JVR.
Well, we have Bryzgalov and Bobrovsky, so we DON'T have a #1 goalie. I kid, I kid. Seriously, though, I would have considered that last offseason if Bryz or Vokoun had not been acquired and Richards/Carter were still around. The guy has never had a Sv. % lower than .913, and Holmgren can always find a top-9 forward somewhere. The contract is just really, really long. It doesn't seem so bad to a team that spends to the cap and just signed Bryz (for slightly more money) until he's 40, though. I am not saying you should or would.
As for JVR's value to the Leafs, I think L. Schenn and a 2nd has been pretty well established.
Philly fans lol....I dont why we would want JVR seriously, especially at that price, not to mention he is a winger, and I can guarantee Burke is making a hard push for Nash, so Schenn wont be going to Philly if that is the case.
Anyway I still think IF Burke should really go at Luongo, which I wouldnt see who else he would be gunning for, that he may do a multiplayer deal. Lu and Kesler there is our goalie and center. I feel like a broken record I think every time I post this early and come on this thread I say that. LOL
Philly fans lol....I dont why we would want JVR seriously, especially at that price, not to mention he is a winger, and I can guarantee Burke is making a hard push for Nash, so Schenn wont be going to Philly if that is the case.
Anyway I still think IF Burke should really go at Luongo, which I wouldnt see who else he would be gunning for, that he may do a multiplayer deal. Lu and Kesler there is our goalie and center. I feel like a broken record I think every time I post this early and come on this thread I say that. LOL
We are getting Luongo,we are getting the first overall pick,we are getting a number one center,we are getting Nash...
Like heck!I guarantee we don't have the assets for half of that and the number one priority has to be a number one center,not Nash,who quite frankly we dont want.
Everyone on the Trade boards except Leafs fans. It's pretty well settled, actually.
I'm hoping you are being sarcastic or ironic or something. Because the clowns on the trade forumn are so anti-Leaf it isn't even funny. They say we overvalue our prospects but NHL GM's seem to give up more then we ever think they will.
We are getting Luongo,we are getting the first overall pick,we are getting a number one center,we are getting Nash...
Like heck!I guarantee we don't have the assets for half of that and the number one priority has to be a number one center,not Nash,who quite frankly we dont want.
Firstly I never suggested we were getting the top pick, we can get both #1 pick and then trade for a #1 center itll be either or. Luongo can be had, and we could afford Nash still....Nash's price in my mind would be way higher. I dont know why you wouldnt want a pluse 60pt getter, albeit he has played for the worse team in the NHL for his whole career and still manages 60 plus pts. He is big, can skate and is a definate game breaker....why you or anyone wouldnt want him doesnt make any sense to me at all.
As i mentioned though there is no way possible (i dont think) that Burke can trade up and get a NHL ready center in the draft, get Luongo and then get Nash, or even a #1 NHL center. I think itll boil down too if Burke sees a guy in the draft that he could trade up for that he thinks can make an impact right away, and I think the only center that can do that for sure is Yakupov. I think Gal would spend time with the Marlies, though nothing is a guarantee. If I am Burke I go with the sure bet when it comes to a centerman. He cant afford to take a risk and be wrong, this is his last chance to get it right. If you look at the Kessel deal for example, he went with knowing what he was getting in Kessel, rather than waiting for what ended up being Seguin to be ready...and I think that is why he made the deal, the only overpayment was our next year first round...but its not like Burke thought it would be another high pick. So in summary, if Burke can grab Yakupov to fill the center void, then trade up, otherwise, stay pat at #5 and we'll grab one of Forsberg, Grigs, or Gal....reason I say that is I think that a couple dfenceman may go higher then them simply because some of the teams ahead of us need a dman, Oilers for sure should be going for a d all the way to complement Eberle, Hall, Nuge...CBJ well anyones guess they need a whole NHL team, and Montreal is definately going to grab a fwd I think. Or who knows maybe Burke gets a dfenceman which makes yet another one of ours expendable and therefore lands us a legit #1 star? So many variables it should be very interesting.
One thing I think is for certain. The leafs seem to be the only team left for Luongo to go to should Vancouver trade him. What is funny, is Dreger said that Gillis and Lu were going to talk at the end of last week and I havent heard anything on if they did talk, or what happend...that silence could very well mean a Burke trade on the horizon. To me the only other team could be FLA with TPA for sure out of the running; however I said it before...I doubt FLA gets him, they would have to let go of their high priced talent to do so, and in doing that they would have a team like they did when the had Luongo, all goalie no talent. Its a pure cap thing. Now with Toronto we have the assests to get him, for sure Komi is going to be in the deal for pure cap reasons, and then you factor in the possibility (high) that new CBA allows Burke to re work the horrendous contract Lu has, and make it better for us, to allow Reimer or Scrivens to take over. Finally....I just cant think of who else Burke would gun for....only one name jumps out and that is Kipper. But I still think Luongo is for sure the guy Burke is targeting, only time will tell if he can get it done, the chances are higher then some may think what with Gillis, Burke Nonis being very familiar with eachother thusly Burke should know what its going to take. Anway next cpl weeks are going to be huge now that the playoffs are over, I think things are really going to heat up in general
Well I can't claim to be an insider and know for a fact that the Schenn/1st deal is not in play. What i do know (from watching Burke for years) that the Leafs are filled with reclamation projects:
Schenn -(to some Oilers fans he is one) the would be / could be defenseman who has serious question marks.
JSG -bad groin and never returned to form
Dion -proving that he has some talent, but he's not a number 1 defenseman. His defensive play is spotty, and he makes bad decisions all the time
Lombardi -not going to return to form I'm affraid
Connolly -injury prone. Still not a sound contributor to the forward lines
The Monster -an elite goalie in another league and a big question mark for the NHL
Lupul - ok Burke gets credit there. Lupul has exceeded expectation. He's still defensively disinterested.
Franson -people think him and a 2nd is enough to get Lu. No way. He's a question mark too. He seemed to be pretty good in a Nashville system, but here? He couldn't crack the line-up for the longest time.
Colborne -he was a high draft, but became an underachiever in the Boston system. Now he's an underachiever in the Toronto system.
In order to get Lu (a proven player who is not a reclamation project or has an injury history) will come at a cost. Who are our proven players?
Kessel
Grabo
Gunn
Liles (maybe. I hope he bounces back from injury)
Brown
Steckel
Gardiner (kind of)
Mac
Kuli (now becoming more like a question mark)
It's going to have to come from 1 of these guys. Possibly the 5th overall, or a future #1.
Well I can't claim to be an insider and know for a fact that the Schenn/1st deal is not in play. What i do know (from watching Burke for years) that the Leafs are filled with reclamation projects:
Schenn -(to some Oilers fans he is one) the would be / could be defenseman who has serious question marks.
JSG -bad groin and never returned to form
Dion -proving that he has some talent, but he's not a number 1 defenseman. His defensive play is spotty, and he makes bad decisions all the time
Lombardi -not going to return to form I'm affraid
Connolly -injury prone. Still not a sound contributor to the forward lines
The Monster -an elite goalie in another league and a big question mark for the NHL
Lupul - ok Burke gets credit there. Lupul has exceeded expectation. He's still defensively disinterested.
Franson -people think him and a 2nd is enough to get Lu. No way. He's a question mark too. He seemed to be pretty good in a Nashville system, but here? He couldn't crack the line-up for the longest time.
Colborne -he was a high draft, but became an underachiever in the Boston system. Now he's an underachiever in the Toronto system.
In order to get Lu (a proven player who is not a reclamation project or has an injury history) will come at a cost. Who are our proven players?
Kessel
Grabo
Gunn
Liles (maybe. I hope he bounces back from injury)
Brown
Steckel
Gardiner (kind of)
Mac
Kuli (now becoming more like a question mark)
It's going to have to come from 1 of these guys. Possibly the 5th overall, or a future #1.
How many bricks can you fit into a canoe? The answer is 12.... Because motorcycles don't have doors.
What i do know (from watching Burke for years) that the Leafs are filled with reclamation projects:
Schenn -(to some Oilers fans he is one) the would be / could be defenseman who has serious question marks. Not a reclamation project as the Leafs drafted him, not acquired him.
JSG -bad groin and never returned to form Had a great year in Colorado.
Dion -proving that he has some talent, but he's not a number 1 defenseman. His defensive play is spotty, and he makes bad decisions all the time This, I agree with. But given what was given up for him, not a bad trade.
Lombardi -not going to return to form I'm affraid And you know this how? Besides, Lombardi was a pure cap dump, not a reclamation project.
Connolly -injury prone. Still not a sound contributor to the forward lines Brought in as a stop-gap, not meant for long-term success.
The Monster -an elite goalie in another league and a big question mark for the NHL Not a reclamation project. Do you know what that term means?
Lupul - ok Burke gets credit there. Lupul has exceeded expectation. He's still defensively disinterested.
Franson -people think him and a 2nd is enough to get Lu. No way. He's a question mark too. He seemed to be pretty good in a Nashville system, but here? He couldn't crack the line-up for the longest time. He couldn't crack the line-up because the coaches didn't want to scratch Schenn and Komisarek, who played much worse than Franson on most nights. And again, how was he a reclamation project?
Colborne -he was a high draft, but became an underachiever in the Boston system. Now he's an underachiever in the Toronto system. Played with an injured wrist since mid-season.
"1. The act or process of reclaiming.
2. A restoration, as to productivity, usefulness, or morality."
Splitting hairs will not change my mind about Burke's style, this team, and these players. Dion was a risk. Schenn is a risk to the oilers, Lombardi was a risk, Connolly was a risk, JSG was a risk.
I think if you did a poll today:
"would you trade Dion for Ian White?" you might get an overwhelming "**** Yeah!"
Lu is not a risk. His contract is the only thing that people don't care for. No one doubt's his ability.
They will want full value for him. He can't be attained with just Franson and a 2nd.
"1. The act or process of reclaiming.
2. A restoration, as to productivity, usefulness, or morality."
Splitting hairs will not change my mind about Burke's style, this team, and these players. Dion was a risk. Schenn is a risk to the oilers, Lombardi was a risk, Connolly was a risk, JSG was a risk.
I think if you did a poll today:
"would you trade Dion for Ian White?" you might get an overwhelming "**** Yeah!"
Lu is not a risk. His contract is the only thing that people don't care for. No one doubt's his ability.
They will want full value for him. He can't be attained with just Franson and a 2nd.
You're right, he can be had for even less. Just by studying some simple demand supply charts you should be able to figure out that Luongo won't fetch much. Only way his value goes up is if another team enters the trade talks.
You're right, he can be had for even less. Just by studying some simple demand supply charts you should be able to figure out that Luongo won't fetch much. Only way his value goes up is if another team enters the trade talks.
Are you talking about the list of teams with starting goalies? I've seen that. It doesn't guarantee that GM's don't have a change of heart about their goalie. Calgary seems like a team with a starting goalie, but what it is decided that Kip is close to expirory? Maybe they will want Lu as well. The leafs are not a lock. Other teams want him. Not just the mega desperate Toronto Maple Leafs.
Are you talking about the list of teams with starting goalies? I've seen that. It doesn't guarantee that GM's don't have a change of heart about their goalie. Calgary seems like a team with a starting goalie, but what it is decided that Kip is close to expirory? Maybe they will want Lu as well. The leafs are not a lock. Other teams want him. Not just the mega desperate Toronto Maple Leafs.
I agree Luongo in a vacuum is a very desirable asset. But factoring in his contract, the cap uncertainty, the upcoming CBA, and the apparent rifts he has with Vancouver, teams aren't willing to pay Gillis's asking price.
Now assuming Luongo can be had for a soft deal, then I imagine more teams will be interested. But Luongo also controls his destination with a NTC. Which has always been a value killer.
But from Vancouver's perspective, if they trade Luongo for Franson, and use the freed up cap space to sign Gaustad and another depth forward, they are a better team, and that's what matters most for their fans.
