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Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

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Old
06-11-2012, 12:27 AM
  #51
3074326
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If my favorite non-Penguin goes to Philly I'll be so sad.

Keep holding it up, JVR. Fight the good fight!

Also, I don't like JVR as a centerpiece in a Nash trade. I hope he's not, and not only because I hate Philly and love Nash.

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06-11-2012, 12:29 AM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DJN21 View Post
If Bryz didnt choke and Pronger didnt break his face this is a whole new convo...ik that we can what if this do death, and I think all sides made out in the trade but...

richards and carter clearly werent Philly's winners/had off ice trouble/had huge contracts

Philly gained voracek/simmonds/schenn/signed jagr/got coutirerier etc etc....had cap to trade for Bryz...he made a depth/future move and knew that Pronger(pre injury) and Giroux were his leaders. It took serious guts to do what he did....right or wrong and serious guts for a gm to me are commendable
Lets not forget something here.

1. Giroux's break out should not be part of this discussion. Had he not broken out, you have a different team completely.

2. Couturier should have already been gone. Plus passing up Hamilton wasn't Holmgren's smartest choice

3. Pronger was and still definitely is aging. At least one of those trades should have brought back a defender.

4. Bry's contract is terrible, and I would rather have Richards/Carter over him.

Homlgren even said "We don't know how this team will look, one think I can say is it will be different". Personally I would call the Carter trade a draw, and the Richards trade slightly favours LA, but Schenn's development definitely has a lot to do with how this trade will end up looking in the end.

One positive though, he did get rid of two contracts that I think will haunt LA down the road. But brought one back that is almost as bad as both those contracts, so I don't even know how much of a positive that even really is.

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06-11-2012, 12:33 AM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafs87 View Post
Lets not forget something here.

1. Giroux's break out should not be part of this discussion. Had he not broken out, you have a different team completely.

2. Couturier should have already been gone. Plus passing up Hamilton wasn't Holmgren's smartest choice

3. Pronger was and still definitely is aging. At least one of those trades should have brought back a defender.

4. Bry's contract is terrible, and I would rather have Richards/Carter over him.

Homlgren even said "We don't know how this team will look, one think I can say is it will be different". Personally I would call the Carter trade a draw, and the Richards trade slightly favours LA, but Schenn's development definitely has a lot to do with how this trade will end up looking in the end.

One positive though, he did get rid of two contracts that I think will haunt LA down the road. But brought one back that is almost as bad as both those contracts, so I don't even know how much of a positive that even really is.

I'd agree for the most part - but if LA doesn't complete the choke and wins the Cup, they won't care for a good long while about those contracts

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06-11-2012, 12:36 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by TheGleninator View Post
JVR, Richards, Carter took long term contracts that significantly lowered their cap hit in their prime years than waiting for UFA who knows if Schenn will feel like signing a 8 year deal versus 2 4 year deals maximizing his cap hit each time.
Schenn and his agent will play hard ball. There's no question about that. Just look at who represents him.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Riptide View Post
If Nash is moved, JVR is an ideal target. He's young, has potential, and is locked in for 4-5 years so he shouldn't be leaving anytime soon.
*If* this rumor is true (I don't believe it) I think the last player Columbus would want is a player delaying surgery in order to avoid being shipped there.

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06-11-2012, 12:38 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
Schenn and his agent will play hard ball. There's no question about that. Just look at who represents him.





*If* this rumor is true (I don't believe it) I think the last player Columbus would want is a player delaying surgery in order to avoid being shipped there.
I think for sure if he goes, its for a D man not Nash.

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06-11-2012, 01:29 AM
  #56
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Nash and Savard or Moore for Bob, JVR, 1st, and Schenn?

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06-11-2012, 01:31 AM
  #57
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What does Philly want from SJ? I think that SJ would want JVR.

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06-11-2012, 01:42 AM
  #58
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a philly beat writer has stated the the flyers are desperately trying to trade up in the draft.
this would be crazy but what do you think the flyers would offer for Nash and CBJ's 2nd overall pick?

I'm thinking it would take JVR, Mesz, Schenn, Wellwood, bob, read.. eh?

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06-11-2012, 01:42 AM
  #59
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I bet it is a goalie and defenceman coming to Philidelphia with Schnenn or Van Riemsdyk going to Vancouver, possibly with a Dman.

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06-11-2012, 01:44 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by wiseonewillis View Post
He doesn't have a NTC, and I wish I could figure out homers idea of signing players long term then trading them
Because it's pretty smart?

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06-11-2012, 01:49 AM
  #61
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Because it's pretty smart?
It really isn't that smart. It's showing how unfaithful he can be to players by offering such contracts and trading them away quickly after. Players catch on and avoid long contracts in the future. It can bite him in the ass.

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06-11-2012, 01:54 AM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wiseonewillis View Post
I'm thinking it would take JVR, Mesz, Schenn, Wellwood, bob, read.. eh?
How about no? We don't want your spare parts for our franchise player and 2nd overall pick. We'd want a significant chunk of your core.

Hopefully Howson isn't stupid enough to trade for a kid who is suffering from a torn labrum. Yikes. Until he's had surgery and recovered fully, that injury should halve his trade value.

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06-11-2012, 01:56 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by poetryinmotion View Post
They can, actually. Gauthier (idiot) traded Cammy for an injured Bourque last season.
You are half right. Injured players can be dealt if the injury is disclosed.

But Bourque was suspended when he was traded. He had just served Game 1 of a 3 game suspension when it went down.

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06-11-2012, 01:59 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Medium Rare View Post
You are half right. Injured players can be dealt if the injury is disclosed.
Another example is the Vermette/Leclaire trade. Leclaire was out for the season but Ottawa was willing to acquire him for Vermette.

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06-11-2012, 01:59 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Crede777 View Post
How about no? We don't want your spare parts for our franchise player and 2nd overall pick. We'd want a significant chunk of your core.
Spare parts are you serious? Do you even know who JVR and Schenn are? Even the likes of Bobrovsky, Read and Meszaros aren't "spare parts" either. I don't know much about Wellwood but I seem to remember him being a pretty good prospect. Hell if the Blue Jackets could get that kind of return they should be all over it.

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06-11-2012, 02:02 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by punk_o_holic View Post
Another example is the Vermette/Leclaire trade. Leclaire was out for the season but Ottawa was willing to acquire him for Vermette.
I was going to use Colin Fraser as an example since it was disclosed he was injured but there was a debate on how injured and the Kings filed a grievance, but I forgot his name and got distracted by an insane post.

That is a great example you used though

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06-11-2012, 02:04 AM
  #67
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I bet it is a goalie and defenceman coming to Philidelphia with Schnenn or Van Riemsdyk going to Vancouver, possibly with a Dman.
So one of Luongo or Schneider is coming to Philly when they already have Bryzgalov and Bobobsky? I guess if they could get Schneider, you can use him as trade bait.

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06-11-2012, 02:04 AM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Medium Rare View Post
Spare parts are you serious? Do you even know who JVR and Schenn are? Even the likes of Bobrovsky, Read and Meszaros aren't "spare parts" either. I don't know much about Wellwood but I seem to remember him being a pretty good prospect. Hell if the Blue Jackets could get that kind of return they should be all over it.
Not at all. The only reason why those guys are mentioned, besides Schenn, is because they are currently on the periphery looking in.

Bobrovsky has been too inconsistent, I think, to handle being thrown into the situation in Columbus. That'd wreck him just like it did Mason.

There's too many names. Read is nice but Columbus has too many smallish wingers as is. Condense it into ~4 players whose quality equals the package proposed. From what has been said, Columbus isn't trading both Nash and the 2nd overall together anyways.


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06-11-2012, 02:15 AM
  #69
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I bet it is a goalie and defenceman coming to Philidelphia with Schnenn or Van Riemsdyk going to Vancouver, possibly with a Dman.
From the sounds of it, the front office seems very confident in Bryz being better next season. Felt like he had the first season jitters in a big hockey market

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crede777 View Post
Not at all. The only reason why those guys are mentioned, besides Schenn, is because they are currently on the periphery looking in.

Bobrovsky has been too inconsistent, I think, to handle being thrown into the situation in Columbus. That'd wreck him just like it did Mason.

There's too many names. Read is nice but Columbus has too many smallish wingers as is. Condense it into ~4 players whose quality equals the package proposed.
I agree that seemed kind of like dumping our movable players off on CLB. Bob wants to start, and probably needs to to stay consistent. That's what hurt him this year. He's a freak athletically and if he can be groomed a bit more, he can be a very good starter in the league. Mez would be a great veteran 3-4 guy, setting up a potentially strong d-corp for the Jackets...That would leave the question marks at forward though. JvR can't carry a team like Nash did. Schenn can't either (and honestly I wouldn't want him in the deal). Read is a wild card, as is Wellwood. Both are probably 3rd liners/PKers, Read can play some PP as well...but both are absolute speed demons.

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06-11-2012, 02:18 AM
  #70
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Problem is, Columbus already has a plethora of small, speedy wingers like Read. Meszaros is completely redundant as well.

As for JVR, he has a torn labrum (obviously). That's an extremely serious condition for an athlete. I'd want him to have had surgery and displayed that he's fully recovered first. Until he shows that he's capable of being a permanent top-6 winger (not to mention capable of being 100% healthy), that isn't an experiment I'd want going on my team. The main piece coming back in a Nash + 2nd overall trade would have to be someone like Bobby Ryan who is not only young but shown that he's capable of being a dominant player.

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06-11-2012, 02:18 AM
  #71
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Originally Posted by wiseonewillis View Post
It really isn't that smart. It's showing how unfaithful he can be to players by offering such contracts and trading them away quickly after. Players catch on and avoid long contracts in the future. It can bite him in the ass.
It absolutely amazes me that it hasn't bit Holmgren in the ass yet, as it's been his calling card for a few years now. The guy has about as much respect for loyalty as he does toilet paper.

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Old
06-11-2012, 02:57 AM
  #72
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Man...if the FLyers get Nash and Giroux I don't care who the other 21 members of the team are that is a terrifying team.

I have to presume that at least one of Schenn or Couturier would be going the other way as well.

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06-11-2012, 03:02 AM
  #73
Frodo Baggins
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UniverStalinGraduate View Post
Man...if the FLyers get Nash and Giroux I don't care who the other 21 members of the team are that is a terrifying team.

I have to presume that at least one of Schenn or Couturier would be going the other way as well.
I really hope they hold onto couturier. I think they realized how important he is and will be for their team. His defensive game is outstanding. He pretty much is the penalty kill, with talbot. The kid is going to be incredible one day, he has amazing hockey sense for a 19 year old.

I love schenn and his physical play helps me cope with the loss of Richards. If this was the only way to bring in Nash, I would much rather part ways with schenn than couturier.

The flyers got unbelievably lucky that Couturier slid to the 8th pick.

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06-11-2012, 03:06 AM
  #74
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Originally Posted by wiseonewillis View Post
I really hope they hold onto couturier. I think they realized how important he is and will be for their team. His defensive game is outstanding. He pretty much is the penalty kill, with talbot. The kid is going to be incredible one day, he has amazing hockey sense for a 19 year old.

I love schenn and his physical play helps me cope with the loss of Richards. If this was the only way to bring in Nash, I would much rather part ways with schenn than couturier.

The flyers got unbelievably lucky that Couturier slid to the 8th pick.
We'll see I guess. I have close to no doubt Couturier will be a solid top 6 NHL'er but he's definitely not a guarantee to be a great player. He may be one of those 55-65 point elite 2 way guy. Nothing wrong with that, great player for sure. But no guarantee. Then again he could be a 90 point guy.

That being said if the Jackets could get a deal centered around him (JVR is overrated and looks to be on his way to being injury prone/problematic) for Nash they should definitely look into it.

Philly needs a d-man though, unless they trade for Nash and sign Suter I don't see how it works.

If that happens though....eesh

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06-11-2012, 03:06 AM
  #75
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Originally Posted by wiseonewillis View Post
I really hope they hold onto couturier. I think they realized how important he is and will be for their team. His defensive game is outstanding. He pretty much is the penalty kill, with talbot. The kid is going to be incredible one day, he has amazing hockey sense for a 19 year old.

I love schenn and his physical play helps me cope with the loss of Richards. If this was the only way to bring in Nash, I would much rather part ways with schenn than couturier.

The flyers got unbelievably lucky that Couturier slid to the 8th pick.
Don't worry, the organization knows what they have in couturier. It's just like when giroux was up and coming, there were whispers like 'I'm not really sure what we've got here...this kids got IT though.'

Thank god we didn't trade him to atl for kovalchuk haha

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