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JVR Surgery Discussion (update post #356: No hip surgery for JVR, Holmgren confirms)

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Old
06-11-2012, 10:41 AM
  #101
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Originally Posted by healthyscratch View Post
Meltzer pretty much laughing this off....

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog.php?p...qgvYLE.twitter
He's laughing off the notion that JvR reason for not having the surgery is to prevent a trade. But if I'm not mistaken, Eskin said the trade is being held up because he didn't have the surgery, not that he was intentionally not having the surgery.

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06-11-2012, 10:42 AM
  #102
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I could see a package around JVR for the 2nd Overall. That makes sense to some degree.
Yep, that was what I was thinking. Seems that for the past week or so, the smoke out there is the Flyers trying to move up. Murray is the best D in the draft hands down and honestly would probably make the team right out of camp (rightly or wrongly).

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06-11-2012, 10:45 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Hollywood Couturier View Post
I could see a package around JVR for the 2nd Overall. That makes sense to some degree.
I don't think it makes much sense for Columbus though--maybe JVR + 20th for the 2nd + a prospect (Savard, Goloubef, etc.?)

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06-11-2012, 10:50 AM
  #104
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I don't think it makes much sense for Columbus though--maybe JVR + 20th for the 2nd + a prospect (Savard, Goloubef, etc.?)
I could probably work with that if we could trade Shelley or Lilja to them as well

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06-11-2012, 10:55 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Krishna View Post
I could probably work with that if we could trade Shelley or Lilja to them as well
What is with everyone's fascination with trading Lilja? He's making peanuts and is a fine #7 Dman. There is no point in trading him to allow MAB or Gus to be #7 and any other #7 is going to get roughly the same amount of money and bring the same things to the table.

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06-11-2012, 10:56 AM
  #106
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I don't think it makes much sense for Columbus though--maybe JVR + 20th for the 2nd + a prospect (Savard, Goloubef, etc.?)
It would likely be Jvr + 20th for the 2nd overall. I don't think colombus would entertain adding to it. Then again, it is Scott "Hoedown" Howson.

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06-11-2012, 11:06 AM
  #107
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It would likely be Jvr + 20th for the 2nd overall. I don't think colombus would entertain adding to it. Then again, it is Scott "Hoedown" Howson.
Bob will most likely be included with Columbus' need for a goalie.

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06-11-2012, 11:07 AM
  #108
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Sounds like the Flyers are making a Joni Pitkanen type move if they move up in the draft and get a D man like Murray...

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06-11-2012, 11:12 AM
  #109
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I could probably work with that if we could trade Shelley or Lilja to them as well
Not sure about Shelley..he was really invaluable against the Devils this year in the locker room...

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06-11-2012, 11:13 AM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Hollywood Couturier View Post
Bob will most likely be included with Columbus' need for a goalie.
Is Bob an upgrade to Mason? They are the same age, so it would seem counterproductive for Columbus to make a move for a player with just as many question marks. (By some reports, for example, the Blue Jackets did not target Bernier in the Carter deal--essentially settling for the Kings 1st instead).

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06-11-2012, 11:20 AM
  #111
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06-11-2012, 11:23 AM
  #112
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this doesn't make sense on so many levels

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06-11-2012, 11:26 AM
  #113
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Is Bob an upgrade to Mason? They are the same age, so it would seem counterproductive for Columbus to make a move for a player with just as many question marks. (By some reports, for example, the Blue Jackets did not target Bernier in the Carter deal--essentially settling for the Kings 1st instead).
Mason has lost it. He's paid $2,900,000 and will be waived once it's allowed. Don't think he'll ever see NHL time again. Mason has far more question marks than Bob. I can see the Blue Jackets taking Subban with LA's pick and grooming him be their new goalie of the future (If he's there). Pair Bob with a veteran back-up and form a 1a/1b tandem and hope that Bob can find his game.

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06-11-2012, 11:28 AM
  #114
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This "leak" seems awfully orchestrated to me. Last year Eskin had the info which then sent the rest of the media and fans in a frenzy and let all the rumours about Richards and Carter grow by the hour. Now it's JvR's turn, another player who signed a lengthy, lucrative soon to begin deal who is made out to be the bad guy because he's intentionally not getting surgery. Something stinks.

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06-11-2012, 11:36 AM
  #115
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Originally Posted by MsWoof View Post
This "leak" seems awfully orchestrated to me. Last year Eskin had the info which then sent the rest of the media and fans in a frenzy and let all the rumours about Richards and Carter grow by the hour. Now it's JvR's turn, another player who signed a lengthy, lucrative soon to begin deal who is made out to be the bad guy because he's intentionally not getting surgery. Something stinks.
Your Philadelphia Flyers...haha

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06-11-2012, 11:37 AM
  #116
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Despite report, JVR's infection delaying surgery

For what it's worth...of course Holmgren can't be trusted anymore than Eskin...

Quote:
While a report surfaced suggesting Flyers forward James van Riemsdyk has been purposefully delaying surgery, which is preventing a possible trade, general manager Paul Holmgren said an infection in van Riemsdyk's foot is the only reason for the holdup.

According to a report from NBC's Howard Eskin, a possible Flyers trade for Columbus Blue Jacket Rick Nash is being held up by van Riemsdyk's decision to delay a necessary surgery.

Eskin tweeted that van Riemsdyk is delaying surgery on a torn labrum, which is holding up a possible trade for Nash.

But in an email to CSNPhilly.com, Holmgren said van Riemsdyk's routine surgery is delayed because of an infection and all other speculation is "way off base."

http://www.csnphilly.com/hockey-phil...790&feedID=704

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06-11-2012, 11:38 AM
  #117
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Is there any type of injury that JVR hasn't gotten this year?

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06-11-2012, 11:42 AM
  #118
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Is there any type of injury that JVR hasn't gotten this year?
There are few pathogens being developed in a military lab that JVR has yet to contract. However, rumor has it that he got Chagas disease while on a trip to South America...

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06-11-2012, 11:47 AM
  #119
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Originally Posted by jeh82 View Post
Is Bob an upgrade to Mason? They are the same age, so it would seem counterproductive for Columbus to make a move for a player with just as many question marks. (By some reports, for example, the Blue Jackets did not target Bernier in the Carter deal--essentially settling for the Kings 1st instead).
Options. Even if he can't beat out Mason, Sanford just signed in the KHL. Bob would offer them another young option with upside.

JVR, Bob and our 1st would be an extremely good package for the 2nd overall pick. I would definitely do it and would probably even add a 3rd this year/ 2nd next year to get it done. Murray would easily be worth that to us.

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06-11-2012, 11:50 AM
  #120
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Is there any type of injury that JVR hasn't gotten this year?
This is probably the same infection that he had at the end of the playoffs. Post surgical infections can be PITA to clear, so a month delay because of an antibiotic course is an entirely reasonable delay. My brother got a staph infection in his hip joint and he still has some residual stiffness because of it. It's not worth the risk on a routine surgery with a modest recovery time.

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06-11-2012, 11:56 AM
  #121
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Options. Even if he can't beat out Mason, Sanford just signed in the KHL. Bob would offer them another young option with upside.

JVR, Bob and our 1st would be an extremely good package for the 2nd overall pick. I would definitely do it and would probably even add a 3rd this year/ 2nd next year to get it done. Murray would easily be worth that to us.
Sorry. But offering a still young former 2nd overall in JVR plus a good backup/potential future starting goaltender plus a 22nd overall pick and even more minor picks for the 2nd overall at the current draft is plain stupid - no matter how bad we need a first pairing defenseman.

We could easily use the same assets to trade for a proven defenseman ready to play right now.
Kimmo has one more good year left in him at best, Hartnell may be gone for $$$ when his current contract is up, Briere will only get slower and less efficient - the current window is closing rapidly!

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06-11-2012, 11:56 AM
  #122
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ugh..not sure I want this Murray dude based on this!

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06-11-2012, 11:57 AM
  #123
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I don't want Nash, but a lot of baloney arguments are getting thrown around against him.

-At 29, odds are that he's past his physical prime as a hockey scorer. But that does not necessarily mean that he's past his statistical prime if he finds himself in a more favorable offensive environment.

-The important thing about team quality is not the raw point totals of certain players on the team. It's about being able to achieve the most one-ice efficiency throughout as much of the game as possible. Adding Rick Nash to a deep forward roster would obviously serve that end (at least in the short term).

The main problem with this trade idea begins and ends with the fact that it's a capped league.




Wanting out and getting run out would be different things, no? Pitkanen's wish was granted by the Flyers because of his deteriorating play.

If JVR is really delaying his surgery just to avoid a trade from the Flyers, his situation does not appear similar to Pitkanen's at all. Furthermore, I see no reason to believe that the Flyers rumored willingness to deal him is generated by sensitivity to the wishes of "the fans".
Nash could certainly have another statistical peak year, but it's not realistic to expect him to evolve into an 80-100 point player on a consistent basis at this stage of his career. Nash is already showing signs of a decline.

Nash doesn't help the team achieve the most on ice efficiency. We're already the 2nd best offense in the league. There's not much room for improvement in that area of the game.

As you mention the biggest problem is the cap. JVR could be a 30+ goal scorer for $3.6M less than what Nash makes. Nash hurts our cap efficiency.

Agree that wanting out is different, but I also provided an example where a team flat out admitted to moving a player because of the fans' attitude towards him. I don't think this rumor deal has anything to do with the fans, but if he becomes another whipping boy it could have an impact on their decision making in the future.

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06-11-2012, 12:00 PM
  #124
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His foot is still infected? Didn't that begin during the playoffs? Somebody should tell these guys we invented anti-biotics a while ago, before they have to saw his leg off.

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06-11-2012, 12:04 PM
  #125
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I didn't specify passing center, I'm using that as the example because that's what we have in Philadelphia. Hossa's still a passer. I also didn't say I expected 50 goals. I said I expected 75-85 points, hopefully as high as 90. He'd be the primary scorer on that line, but certainly not the only capable one (like he is now in CLB), so 35g-45a isn't an unreachable goal by any means.
Can't explain Heatley. He did well with Spezza and Alfie no doubt, but disappointed a bit with Thornton in SJ. Do you really expect more than 30-35 goals in a season from him now in MIN? Koivu was also hurt for large chunks this season, doesn't help. Vinny underwent shoulder surgery and wrist surgery the year after he scored 40 last, I certainly think that's hindered him, as well as losing Richards and Boyle, and St. Louis getting a older. Ovi's team is trying to transition to a defensive system that he doesn't fit into at all, and Backstrom missed half the season this year (but was over a point per game player when healthy).


There are usually reasons for these drops offs. You can't just assume that a guy is getting older, so that's why his results drop off. Use Gagne as an example again; we all know how lethal he can still be. He scored 40 twice being centered by Forsberg, dropped off when Forsberg was traded, and his career has been dismantled by injuries. It's not all because he's over 30 now...
It's not all because Gagne is 30, but most forwards tend to begin drop off in their late 20's. There is always the exception to every rule, but there is no reason to believe Nash is going to be that exception. In fact, Nash is already showing signs of a decline himself.

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