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Off-Season Discussion Part V (Cap info in 1st post)

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06-10-2012, 11:48 PM
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End of Line
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Off-Season Discussion Part V (Cap info in 1st post)

2012-13 LOOKAHEAD

As always, all figures are cap numbers, not salaries, and are taken directly from www.capgeek.com.


Estimated 2012-2013 salary ceiling: .~70,300,000
Projected cap spending: .....................61,566,667
Projected cap space: ...........................8,733,333


PITTSBURGH PENGUINS
Forward.................
Pos.
Age
2012-13
2013-14
2014-15
Sidney Crosby
C
24
8,700,000
UFA
 
Evgeni Malkin
C
25
8,700,000
8,700,000
UFA
James Neal
LW
24
5,000,000
5,000,000
5,000,000
Jordan Staal
C
23
4,000,000
UFA
 
Chris Kunitz
LW
32
3,725,000
3,725,000
UFA
Tyler Kennedy
RW
25
2,000,000
RFA
 
Matt Cooke
LW
33
1,800,000
UFA
 
Pascal Dupuis
LW
32
1,500,000
UFA
 
Craig Adams
RW
34
675,000
UFA
 
Dustin Jeffrey
C
23
575,000
RFA
 
Joe Vitale
C
26
550,000
550,000
UFA
Defense.................
Pos.
Age
2012-13
2013-14
2014-15
Paul Martin
D
30
5,000,000
5,000,000
5,000,000
Zbynek Michalek
D
29
4,000,000
4,000,000
4,000,000
Brooks Orpik
D
31
3,750,000
3,750,000
UFA
Kris Letang
D
24
3,500,000
3,500,000
UFA
Deryk Engelland
D
29
566,667
566,667
UFA
Ben Lovejoy
D
27
525,000
UFA
 
Goalie....................
Pos.
Age
2012-13
2013-14
2014-15
Marc-Andre Fleury
G
27
5,000,000
5,000,000
5,000,000
Tomas Vokoun
G
35
2,000,000
2,000,000
UFA



WILKES-BARRE/SCRANTON PENGUINS
Forward...............
Pos.
Age
2012-13
2013-14
2014-15
Beau Bennett
RW
20
900,000
900,000
900,000
Brian Gibbons
C
23
900,000
RFA
 
Paul Thompson
LW
23
900,000
RFA
 
Adam Payerl
C
21
850,000
850,000
850,000
Nick Petersen
RW
22
566,667
RFA
 
Zach Sill
C
23
535,000
RFA
 
Defense...............
Pos.
Age
2012-13
2013-14
2014-15
Philip Samuelsson
D
20
900,000
900,000
RFA
Simon Despres
D
20
840,000
840,000
RFA
Goalie..................
Pos.
Age
2012-13
2013-14
2014-15
Patrick Killeen
G
21
548,333
RFA
 



UNRESTRICTED FREE AGENTS
Player..................
Pos.
Age
2011-12
News & Notes
Steve Sullivan
LW
37
1,500,000
Seems to be a significant help to the power play
Arron Asham
RW
33
775,000
Has expressed a strong desire to return
Brent Johnson
G
34
600,000
Game suddenly fell off a cliff this winter
Steve MacIntyre
LW
31
600,000
Is Shero's stance on enforcers changing?
Alexandre Picard
D
26
600,000
Will likely move along for a better crack at the NHL
Jason Williams
RW
31
600,000
Signed with Ambri-Piotta (NLA)
Richard Park
RW
35
550,000
Reasonable option as a 13th/14th forward
Ryan Craig
C
30
525,000
WBS captain two years running
Colin McDonald
RW
27
525,000
Dropped off to just 14 goals this season
Scott Munroe
G
30
525,000
Veteran AHL option who can carry the load
Brad Thiessen
G
25
525,000
Group VI UFA -- Spring NHL audition underwhelming



RESTRICTED FREE AGENTS
Player..................
Pos.
Age
2011-12
News & Notes
Matt Niskanen
D
25
1,500,000
Keep him around or make room for Despres and Co.?
Mattias Modig
G
24
875,000
Spent entire season in Europe rehabbing from injury
Keven Veilleux
C
22
854,167
Injured -- Typically cursed 2nd round pick
Casey Pierro-Zabotel
LW
23
850,000
Already banished from the organization
Carl Sneep
D
24
850,000
Still lagging behind many other defensive prospects
Brian Strait
D
24
850,000
A good bet to stick with the big club as a 6/7 option
Eric Tangradi
LW
23
845,833
Skillset sadly hasn't endeared him to Bylsma
Alex Grant
D
23
790,000
Likely saved pro career with showing on power play
Boris Valabik
D
26
550,000
Injuries ruined season -- just misses Group VI cutoff
Robert Bortuzzo
D
22
535,000
Pens like him, but will he make it through waivers?
Cal O'Reilly
C
25
525,000
Slow start, then chipped in a few big playoff goals



SIGNED PROSPECTS
Player
Pos.
Age
Current Team
Contract
Joe Morrow
D
19
Portland (WHL)
3 years/925,000 per
Scott Harrington
D
18
London (OHL)
3 years/925,000 per
Tom Kuhnhackl
F
20
Niagara (OHL)
3 years/850,000 per
Dominik Uher
F
19
Spokane (WHL)
3 years/585,000 per
Reid McNeill
D
20
Barrie (OHL)
3 years/558,333 per



UNSIGNED PROSPECTS
Player
Pos.
Age
Current Team (League)
Kenny Agostino
F
19
Yale (ECAC)
Josh Archibald
F
19
Nebraska-Omaha (WCHA)
Nick D'Agostino
D
21
Cornell (ECAC)
Patrick Ehelechner
G
27
Nürnberg (DEL)
Ben Hanowski
F
21
St. Cloud State (WCHA)
Alexander Pechurskiy
G
21
Klin (VHL)
Joe Rogalski
D
20
Sault Ste. Marie (OHL)
Bryan Rust
F
19
Notre Dame (CCHA)
Alex Velischek
D
21
Providence (HEA)
Scott Wilson
F
19
UMass-Lowell (HEA)

__________________

"I don't know what the stronger emotion would be, the joy of winning or the pain of losing"-Sidney Crosby.

Last edited by shureshot66: 06-12-2012 at 05:03 PM.
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Old
06-11-2012, 03:06 AM
  #2
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Sid's contract which should get done before or just after July.1 will tell us what the club is gonna do with Staal imo. If Sid gets a nice raise, i expect Staal to be dealt to Carolina. Sutter will be part of the package coming back obviously.

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06-11-2012, 05:04 AM
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Tangradi on the 4th line . Why can't bylsma just give him a shot in the top 6 role and let him show his potential or show he's a bust.
Because he isn't good enough at this point to take a top 6 role. Even without any more signings, he is at best our 5th best option for that spot not counting Staal. And that's putting him ahead of Cooke purely on potential.

He should be given a 4th line spot with an immediate chance to earn his way to the 3rd line in camp/preseason. Let him start there and give him the opportunity to move up from there. You don't see many good teams throwing guys like Tangradi into the top 6 to see if they can perform. At least not without an injury or two.

Honestly, I don't care where he ends up. But there's no good reason to leave a top 6 spot open for him. There's no good reason to leave a spot open for TK even. Sign another wing. Either someone to be Sid's duo partner like Neal is with Geno, or if Kunitz is already that guy then we need a Kunitz replacement on Geno's line. Oh and if Shero is really feeling frisky he could try to find one more guy to push Dupuis onto the third line with Staal (or to play on Staal's wing himself.)

What he shouldn't do is go the other way and actually downgrade those lines right out of the gate by putting Tangradi there. And all of this from a Tangradi supporter. I like the kid. I think he could bump Cooke to the 4th line and make a very awesome Tangradi - Staal - Dupuis third line.


Last edited by Ogrezilla: 06-11-2012 at 05:48 AM.
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06-11-2012, 05:44 AM
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I heard somewhere that Sid getting a 300k raise means Staal is getting trade. What's the logic in that? I'm sure this has been discussed before but I'm a bit late to the party, and still want to party!

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06-11-2012, 05:49 AM
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Originally Posted by TheReaper View Post
I heard somewhere that Sid getting a 300k raise means Staal is getting trade. What's the logic in that? I'm sure this has been discussed before but I'm a bit late to the party, and still want to party!
there is a miscommunication I think. There was talk of what Sid could possibly get at most (14 mil or something crazy) and in that scenario Staal was being traded. In the same conversation they talked about Sid getting the 300k raise. In that case I don't think Staal was even mentioned because that doesn't change his situation one way or the other.

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06-11-2012, 06:23 AM
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I love sid, but honestly I don't see how he's justified the raise other than he's sid and someone would pay him what he wants.

He's been hurt and has only led the league in scoring once...on his first contract on top of that.

He has the ability to win the art ross every year, but does ability equal actually doing it?

It's all moot because he'll get what he wants, but in my opinion he gets paid enough.

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06-11-2012, 06:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheReaper View Post
I heard somewhere that Sid getting a 300k raise means Staal is getting trade. What's the logic in that? I'm sure this has been discussed before but I'm a bit late to the party, and still want to party!
ya I saw that too, it was on a Yahoo article, so of course it makes no sense lol

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06-11-2012, 06:44 AM
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Originally Posted by OnMyOwn View Post
I love sid, but honestly I don't see how he's justified the raise other than he's sid and someone would pay him what he wants.

He's been hurt and has only led the league in scoring once...on his first contract on top of that.

He has the ability to win the art ross every year, but does ability equal actually doing it?

It's all moot because he'll get what he wants, but in my opinion he gets paid enough.
he's the best player in the world. He deserves a raise considering how much the cap has gone up. If he is nice enough to only go up to 9 mil, god bless him. Sidney Crosby at 9 mil is in the discussion for best contract in the league.

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06-11-2012, 06:53 AM
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Are Sneep and Grant in a straight shootout for the final dman contract? or is it conceivable that they're both brought back.

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06-11-2012, 07:20 AM
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Are Sneep and Grant in a straight shootout for the final dman contract? or is it conceivable that they're both brought back.
they are both RFA's and Grant had a good year, so knowing Shero he'd probably want them both back for depth

i saw Solushun posted this in the prospect thread
Grant-Morrow
Sneep-Samuelsson
McNeil-Mormina
Wild

i could see that being our D, but I'd still include Despres in there too unless we trade Martin
I wasn't sure if we still had Mormina signed either


Last edited by khaoskennedy: 06-11-2012 at 07:39 AM.
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06-11-2012, 08:05 AM
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Sid isn't stupid. He won't ask for something ridiculous like $14m. Apparently he's asking for 10 years, $90million.

Any thoughts on the un-signed prospects? What's the deal with those, just rights? Or how much cap goes on them?

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06-11-2012, 09:01 AM
  #12
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
he's the best player in the world. He deserves a raise considering how much the cap has gone up. If he is nice enough to only go up to 9 mil, god bless him. Sidney Crosby at 9 mil is in the discussion for best contract in the league.
That wasn't my point. We view him as the best, and I firmly believe he is, but his games played, point totals and awards don't add up to it...only his pot.

And even with the cap steadily increasing for years, he still makes more than anyone outside of OV.

If he was always healthy and dominating stats wise, I would have a different opinion. Put 2+ years together of at least 75gp from here on out and he'd prove his health. But paying 10+ mil a year for someone to play 50-60 games a year is insane....personal feelings for the guy aside.

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06-11-2012, 09:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrimper View Post
Any thoughts on the un-signed prospects? What's the deal with those, just rights? Or how much cap goes on them?
I don't think any prospects (signed or otherwise) have any bearing on the Cap until they actually suit up for the big team and only for as long as they stay up. As for names, the only one that sticks in my head is that Agostino kid. I think he was the one from that HS in NJ that has produced some really high quality players? I don't know; I haven't watched any of them play but my instinct, if there was some type of reshuffling that had to be done for financial reasons, would be to put the premium on the F and the G.

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06-11-2012, 09:31 AM
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Need to state a fact:

At no point since all of our 3 C stars were on their entry level contracts have we paid less of our total cap for them than we will next season.
Right now we are looking at those three taking up 30.4 percent of our cap for next season.

Should Sid get 10 million, should Malkin get 10 and should Staal get 7, it would be a total of 27 million per in 2014. Should the cap be where it is now in two years, that would be 38.4 percent of the cap. I think anyone can agree that this is likely more than what it will/should be.
Then imagine that instead it is 8.7+8.7+6 which is the 'lovely' scenario, then that would be 23.4 million and 33.3 percent.

When Malkin and Staal got their present contracts, ie. the year we won the cup, those three accounted for 21.4 million between them, and the cap was 56.7 million. Ie. they got 37.7 percent of the cap.

If you think we would be paying those guys too much.... when we won the cup when they were less complete players.... and took up a bigger portion of our payroll.... then you are wrong. We would be paying other players too much if we failed to be able to retain them with such salaries.

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06-11-2012, 09:36 AM
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Interesting points Rip but I'm not too concerned with arbitrary percentage "thresholds" until we understand better what will happen with the cap and cap rules in the new CBA. If you take that a step further and add our best W (5M) and D (especially after Letang's next contract arrives), the percentage could be pretty damn high. But, if the team can stock up with good prospects like Despres and Morrow and Harrington to make it happen (big percentage locked up in a few players but still very competitive)... that's fine by me. This summer will tell a lot about Shero's strategery going forward IMO.

Paying a premium for our C (and now our goalies), and keeping the system stacked with very skilled young D so that we're not paying a premium for our blueline overall the way some teams will... could be a part of his strategy and the reason he has stocked up on D in drafts. Shero has known this situation with the 3C is coming.

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06-11-2012, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by khaoskennedy View Post
they are both RFA's and Grant had a good year, so knowing Shero he'd probably want them both back for depth

i saw Solushun posted this in the prospect thread
Grant-Morrow
Sneep-Samuelsson
McNeil-Mormina
Wild

i could see that being our D, but I'd still include Despres in there too unless we trade Martin
I wasn't sure if we still had Mormina signed either
I'm not sure Wild will be back.

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06-11-2012, 10:49 AM
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Pretty sure we won the Cup before Malkin and Staal's ELC's expired. I do think it's debatable whether paying 6 or 7 million to Staal on top of paying 9 or 10 million/per to Crosby and Malkin is the best thing for this team. I'm pretty torn on that.

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06-11-2012, 10:56 AM
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The cap rising definitely buys us another year of Staal even on his new contract if need be and the trade offer isn't there. But once Tanger and Geno get their raises, I don't see Staal here.

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06-11-2012, 10:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Hook View Post
Pretty sure we won the Cup before Malkin and Staal's ELC's expired.
Damn it, you're right. They signed the extensions during that season.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Hook View Post
I do think it's debatable whether paying 6 or 7 million to Staal on top of paying 9 or 10 million/per to Crosby and Malkin is the best thing for this team. I'm pretty torn on that.
I am not really saying I would want to do that either (I'd trade Staal if Sid asks for 10 for instance, because we'll have to pay Malkin the same).
But if that doesn't happen, I'd rather sign Staal and then trade him later when it is more obvious that he should get a mega return (like, a healthy season with the scoring averages he has had in the last two seasons).

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06-11-2012, 11:00 AM
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The cap rising definitely buys us another year of Staal even on his new contract if need be and the trade offer isn't there. But once Tanger and Geno get their raises, I don't see Staal here.
Maybe Fleury will be the one leaving. We don't know what's going to happen, but there are a few who probably won't be re-signed after their contracts are up like Michalek, Orpik, Kunitz

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06-11-2012, 11:17 AM
  #21
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Originally Posted by Captain Hook View Post
Pretty sure we won the Cup before Malkin and Staal's ELC's expired. I do think it's debatable whether paying 6 or 7 million to Staal on top of paying 9 or 10 million/per to Crosby and Malkin is the best thing for this team. I'm pretty torn on that.
if Staal wants 7 million trade him. there's no way he is getting 7 though.

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06-11-2012, 11:24 AM
  #22
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I think it's time for Shero to sign Sid to one of those cap circumventing deals. $11M for 10 years, another 4 at $2M. Cap hit $8.42M. Since Bettman loves us, he should let it through.

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06-11-2012, 11:33 AM
  #23
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IMO, we should be able to get Staal for $5.5M, see as how we just signed James Neal at $5M/yr.

And if we can sign him for that amount we have to. There's no way we get anyone even close to comparable to Staal for $5.5M as a UFA.

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06-11-2012, 11:43 AM
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Patrick Reusse ‏@1500ESPN_Reusse
Lou Nanne said on The Sports Show that he's been told by Wild's highest authority that team will offer Parise more than any club in NHL.
So Minny will be throwing the kitchen sink at Zach.


Honestly, I'm intrigued by where he goes, even if it's not here. You have NJ, Minnesota, Detroit, maybe the Rangers and even us that could be players. Should be crazy come July 1.

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06-11-2012, 11:54 AM
  #25
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So Minny will be throwing the kitchen sink at Zach.


Honestly, I'm intrigued by where he goes, even if it's not here. You have NJ, Minnesota, Detroit, maybe the Rangers and even us that could be players. Should be crazy come July 1.
That's great, if we don't get Zach which I doubt we do, I hope he goes out West!

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