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JVR Surgery Discussion (update post #356: No hip surgery for JVR, Holmgren confirms)

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06-11-2012, 11:11 AM
  #126
Jack de la Hoya
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Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
It's not all because Gagne is 30, but most forwards tend to begin drop off in their late 20's. There is always the exception to every rule, but there is no reason to believe Nash is going to be that exception. In fact, Nash is already showing signs of a decline himself.

09: 40 g, 79 points in 78 gp
10: 33 g, 67 points in 76 gp
11: 32 g, 66 points, in 75 gp
12: 30 g, 59 points, in 82 gp
To be fair, the team has regressed badly as well. It is easy to forget that they made the playoffs in 2008-09

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06-11-2012, 11:19 AM
  #127
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To be fair, the team has regressed badly as well. It is easy to forget that they made the playoffs in 2008-09
Absolutely, but when you put his signs of regression together with the fact that forwards in general tend to regress at that age what do you honestly believe is more likely? That he will stagnate/regress over the next 6 years or improve?

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06-11-2012, 11:20 AM
  #128
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I would actually like to see Bob get traded to a team like the Blue Jackets. It would give him a chance to be a full time starter on a team that actually plays defense and does not let up multiple 2 on 1 chances and does not let players wide up in front of the net when they start cycling the puck around.

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06-11-2012, 11:27 AM
  #129
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Originally Posted by flyersfan187 View Post
I would actually like to see Bob get traded to a team like the Blue Jackets. It would give him a chance to be a full time starter on a team that actually plays defense and does not let up multiple 2 on 1 chances and does not let players wide up in front of the net when they start cycling the puck around.
I'm guessing you didn't watch the Blue Jackets play this year...

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06-11-2012, 11:33 AM
  #130
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Originally Posted by Schenn10 View Post
I'm guessing you didn't watch the Blue Jackets play this year...
Not much but I figured they couldn't be as bad as the Flyers were in that regards. Or am I wrong?? I just never seen so many players wide open in front of the net on a consistent basis.

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06-11-2012, 11:35 AM
  #131
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just a thought... Has anyone considered that maybe the flyers DID leak this info, but perhaps did not do it in order to acquire Nash, but to drive the price up and possibly get the Rangers to overpay as they are desperate for scoring?

Just putting a different spin on things.

As for Nash, it is undeniable that he is a great talent. However, I simply can't reason with trading JVR + in order to get him at the cap hit of 7.8 mill a year. It simply doesn't make sense fiscally, when our greatest deficiency is defense.

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06-11-2012, 11:37 AM
  #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goodrev View Post
just a thought... Has anyone considered that maybe the flyers DID leak this info, but perhaps did not do it in order to acquire Nash, but to drive the price up and possibly get the Rangers to overpay as they are desperate for scoring?

Just putting a different spin on things.

As for Nash, it is undeniable that he is a great talent. However, I simply can't reason with trading JVR + in order to get him at the cap hit of 7.8 mill a year. It simply doesn't make sense fiscally, when our greatest deficiency is defense.
Trading JVR to the Rangers? Bad idea. I could see him burning us for years if that happened. When he does play his top game he is one of the best players if not the best player on the ice that game. He would bring his A game every time he plays the Flyers I am sure.

Misread post my fault.


Last edited by flyersfan187: 06-11-2012 at 11:42 AM.
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06-11-2012, 11:37 AM
  #133
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It's all just a smokescreen for the real deal: JvR + Carle's rights + 1st to Boston for Chara.

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06-11-2012, 11:39 AM
  #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goodrev View Post
just a thought... Has anyone considered that maybe the flyers DID leak this info, but perhaps did not do it in order to acquire Nash, but to drive the price up and possibly get the Rangers to overpay as they are desperate for scoring?

Just putting a different spin on things.

As for Nash, it is undeniable that he is a great talent. However, I simply can't reason with trading JVR + in order to get him at the cap hit of 7.8 mill a year. It simply doesn't make sense fiscally, when our greatest deficiency is defense.
I doubt it. It's not the first time Eskin has had sketchy info on Flyers injuries. He also had some wild accusations about Richards' injury last year.

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06-11-2012, 11:39 AM
  #135
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Originally Posted by flyersfan187 View Post
Trading JVR to the Rangers? Bad idea. I could see him burning us for years if that happened. When he does play his top game he is one of the best players if not the best player on the ice that game. He would bring his A game every time he plays the Flyers I am sure.
I think you misunderstood his post--he was suggesting that the Flyers were leaking rumors about a JVR-to-Columbus deal to drive up the cost of Nash-to-NYR--in other words, to get Sather to jump quickly and overpay.

(I think it is a bit of a stretch, personally. The benefit to the Flyers of the Rangers losing an extra pick or prospect is not worth the risk of alienating JVR.)

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06-11-2012, 11:41 AM
  #136
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I could probably work with that if we could trade Shelley or Lilja to them as well
i could forgive Holmgren for those stupid contracts if he even got future consiterations for either contract.

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06-11-2012, 11:45 AM
  #137
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ugh..not sure I want this Murray dude based on this!

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NHL team: Calgary Flames
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so what.

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06-11-2012, 11:49 AM
  #138
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Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
so what.
Joke....

But this isn't....
Quote:
He's played remarkably well for a young fellow and I've talked to the other GMs and scouts that are here [at the World Championships] and they all agree that he's going to play in the National Hockey League next year, no question," Lowe said.

”There's no surprise why Central Scouting has him rated second. He's the top player. And often with the top players, or occasionally with the top players, they're not ready to play in the National Hockey League, but I don't question his readiness for next year.”

http://www.cbssports.com/nhl/blog/ey...the-top-player

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06-11-2012, 11:50 AM
  #139
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Originally Posted by jeh82 View Post
I think you misunderstood his post--he was suggesting that the Flyers were leaking rumors about a JVR-to-Columbus deal to drive up the cost of Nash-to-NYR--in other words, to get Sather to jump quickly and overpay.

(I think it is a bit of a stretch, personally. The benefit to the Flyers of the Rangers losing an extra pick or prospect is not worth the risk of alienating JVR.)
I agree, But rumors fly frequently in Philly. The flyers may have leaked interest and the writers assume its JVR going as he is their biggest bargaining chip.

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06-11-2012, 11:53 AM
  #140
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Originally Posted by goodrev View Post
I agree, But rumors fly frequently in Philly. The flyers may have leaked interest and the writers assume its JVR going as he is their biggest bargaining chip.
Yeah, I just don't buy the indirectness--there's too much to lose and too little to gain by trying to manipulate a (possible) deal between CBJ and NYR.

If you're looking for a conspiratorial angle on this, I would say it is more likely that the team leaked rumors about JVR being dealt to try to get Burke to up an offer from Toronto.


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06-11-2012, 12:13 PM
  #141
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Originally Posted by Schenn10 View Post
I'm guessing you didn't watch the Blue Jackets play this year...
Jackets D honestly wasn't really that bad

Mason is that terrible

Looked like a completely different team with Sanford in net

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06-11-2012, 12:26 PM
  #142
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It's all just a smokescreen for the real deal: JvR + Carle's rights + 1st to Boston for Chara.
one could only dream........

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06-11-2012, 12:33 PM
  #143
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Originally Posted by Coutsiephan View Post
For what it's worth...of course Holmgren can't be trusted anymore than Eskin...

it probably is true probably like two or three weeks ago, but i think he's using this as a smoke screen to get the detail done before the draft, it was probably in the works ever since the flyers got knocked out, like carter and richards, he's not going to say anything about the rumors, yeah we are trading jvr and bob and a first, we are getting done asap, you really think he's going to say that? i never heard of any gm confirming a rumor before getting it done, it's hurts the organization and the deal.

homer will do anything to keep media off his back, even if it's not nash, jvr has to be dealt no matter what because of his cap hit and it's the only way the flyers can clear cap to sign or fix the defense, not unless you want giroux or hartnell gone, i would rather have jvr gone than harts or giroux since it's chemistry.


if jvr goes and fans dont like it, theirs the door for ya bye bye. they wont miss you, it just proves how unpassionate flyer fans are to this organization because they think it's easy for the flyers to keep everyone and dont understand it's a business and they have to manage the cap to make this team better or else no playoffs. i would take playoffs over being a fan over one player that can hurt this organization to make this team better, which is why they always make the playoffs.


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06-11-2012, 12:35 PM
  #144
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Originally Posted by Coutsiephan View Post
Joke....

But this isn't....
would Flyer fans have patience with a young defenseman like Murray. I know with some he makes a mistake in game 2 and we have threads wanting to send him back to junior hockey.

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06-11-2012, 12:43 PM
  #145
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Originally Posted by toughfighter83 View Post
it probably is true probably like two or three weeks ago, but i think he's using this as a smoke screen to get the detail done before the draft, it was probably in the works ever since the flyers got knocked out, like carter and richards, he's not going to say anything about the rumors, yeah we are trading jvr and bob and a first, we are getting done asap, you really think he's going to say that? i never heard of any gm confirming a rumor before getting it done, it's hurts the organization and the deal.

homer will do anything to keep media off his back, even if it's not nash, jvr has to be dealt no matter what because of his cap hit and it's the only way the flyers can clear cap to sign or fix the defense, not unless you want giroux or hartnell gone, i would rather have jvr gone than harts or giroux since it's chemistry.


if jvr goes and fans dont like it, theirs the door for ya bye bye. they wont miss you, it just proves how unpassionate flyer fans are to this organization because they think it's easy for the flyers to keep everyone and dont understand it's a business and they have to manage the cap to make this team better or else no playoffs. i would take playoffs over being a fan over one player that can hurt this organization to make this team better, which is why they always make the playoffs.
The forwards were just as bad if not worse then the d-men were in playing defense this season. Defense is a total team effort and the Flyers haven't had that for two seasons now. And JVR doesn't have to go at all even if they do bring in other players.

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06-11-2012, 12:43 PM
  #146
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Don't think it's worth trading up to number 2 to take Murray. Don't think he's worth it. Number 6-10 is a different story.

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06-11-2012, 12:44 PM
  #147
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Originally Posted by toughfighter83 View Post
it probably is true probably like two or three weeks ago, but i think he's using this as a smoke screen to get the detail done before the draft, it was probably in the works ever since the flyers got knocked out, like carter and richards, he's not going to say anything about the rumors, yeah we are trading jvr and bob and a first, we are getting done asap, you really think he's going to say that? i never heard of any gm confirming a rumor before getting it done, it's hurts the organization and the deal.

homer will do anything to keep media off his back, even if it's not nash, jvr has to be dealt no matter what because of his cap hit and it's the only way the flyers can clear cap to sign or fix the defense, not unless you want giroux or hartnell gone, i would rather have jvr gone than harts or giroux since it's chemistry.


if jvr goes and fans dont like it, theirs the door for ya bye bye. they wont miss you, it just proves how unpassionate flyer fans are to this organization because they think it's easy for the flyers to keep everyone and dont understand it's a business and they have to manage the cap to make this team better or else no playoffs. i would take playoffs over being a fan over one player that can hurt this organization to make this team better, which is why they always make the playoffs.
Oh I agree..you are preaching to the choir. Holmgren has every interest to engage in perception management..that is his job as GM. I'm under no illusions. That's always been my stance. Like I've said whenever Holmgren engages in categorical denials using hyperbole and feigning outrage ..watch out! He's got something cookin'....

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06-11-2012, 12:47 PM
  #148
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If I were to throw together an educated guess to please those who are saying "why Nash? We need defense..."

Flyers offseason priorities:
1. Defense. Snider said so himself. There's no reason to believe that defense IS NOT the biggest priority.
2. Back-up goalie. They see Bob as a player not suited for the backup role, and more of a starter therefore making him a valuable trade piece
3. Scoring winger. The difference in points between Giroux and the 2nd highest scorer was 26 points. I think they want a long term solution for Giroux's flank, which is why Parise's name is definitely being thrown around, and now Nash. The magnitude of the potential of this move will make this seem like it's the highest priority...but it may just be the easiest fix of the offseason

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06-11-2012, 12:47 PM
  #149
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Don't think it's worth trading up to number 2 to take Murray. Don't think he's worth it. Number 6-10 is a different story.
Seriously? I disagree, I think he could step in this season IMO.

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06-11-2012, 12:48 PM
  #150
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Oh I agree..you are preaching to the choir. Holmgren has every interest to engage in perception management..that is his job as GM. I'm under no illusions. That's always been my stance. Like I've said whenever Holmgren engages in categorical denials using hyperbole and feigning outrage ..watch out! He's got something cookin'....
he learned that from Bobby Clarke.

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