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JVR Surgery Discussion (update post #356: No hip surgery for JVR, Holmgren confirms)

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06-11-2012, 02:58 PM
  #201
BrindamoursNose
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sobrien View Post
I mentioned it on the last page, mapped out the offseason priorities in an educated guess. Why else would Nash and Parise's name be popping up?

We have a 24 year old 93 point center, with a 30 year old who had his career high in points this season...at 67 points...the next highest on the team---and a 40 year old legend who can pop in 50 points if he's healthy. They want a sniper to can get 75-80+ pts next to Giroux. Nash fits the bill, as does Parise and Ryan, and they're all closer to Giroux's age than Jagr's.
Popping up in reporters' rumors, not Paul Holmgren's mouth.

I can't comment on the rest because you seem to be trying to tell me what the organization wants from its POV when you're (from what I understand) not in the org/have no more info about it other than an educated guess. I disagree and I think that cash is more wisely spent on defense (both defensive forwards and defensive defensemen).

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06-11-2012, 03:02 PM
  #202
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This rumor has really spiraled out of control... and fast.

I have no clue what to believe anymore. Between JVR's agent saying he wouldn't be surprised if he was traded, and Dreger contradicting everything the Flyers told us about JVR's injury. Crazy **** right now

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06-11-2012, 03:03 PM
  #203
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JVR's foot is concussed. No timetable available for its return.

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Old
06-11-2012, 03:07 PM
  #204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish Invictus View Post
JVR's foot is concussed. No timetable available for its return.
I believe this over anything our management says at this point.

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06-11-2012, 03:12 PM
  #205
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(in my Bernie Mac voice) OH LORD

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06-11-2012, 03:13 PM
  #206
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i just hope if hes moved, we get PAID.

something like:
Tor's 1st (5th overall)
L. Schenn

for
JvR
Philly's 1st (20th overall)

if grigorenko is still on the list @ #5 I'd grab him and call it a night.


FORWARDS
Jakub Voracek ($3.000m) / Claude Giroux ($3.750m) / Jaromir Jagr ($3.000m)
Scott Hartnell ($4.200m) / Brayden Schenn ($3.110m) / Danny Briere ($6.500m)
Wayne Simmonds ($1.750m) / Sean Couturier ($1.375m) / Mikhail Grigorenko ($1.375m)
Eric Wellwood ($0.580m) / Maxime Talbot ($1.750m) / Matt Read ($0.900m)
Zac Rinaldo ($0.544m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Braydon Coburn ($4.500m) / Kimmo Timonen ($6.333m)
Matt Carle ($4.750m) / Luke Schenn ($3.600m)
Nicklas Grossmann ($3.500m) / Andrej Meszaros ($4.000m)
Andreas Lilja ($0.738m) /
GOALTENDERS
Ilya Bryzgalov ($5.667m)
Sergei Bobrovsky ($1.750m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $70,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $66,671,944; BONUSES: $3,555,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $3,628,056


we could spend carle's salary + 3mil to get suter (if hes available)

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06-11-2012, 03:17 PM
  #207
Jack de la Hoya
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tuckrr View Post
i just hope if hes moved, we get PAID.

something like:
Tor's 1st (5th overall)
L. Schenn

for
JvR
Philly's 1st (20th overall)

if grigorenko is still on the list @ #5 I'd grab him and call it a night.
This was explored at some length a few weeks back--Toronto doesn't seriously consider this--they wouldn't move the 5th for JVR straight up, let alone swapping L. Schenn for a late 1st.

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06-11-2012, 03:23 PM
  #208
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wouldn't mind moving JVR, but not thrilled about picking up a player with such a huge cap number

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06-11-2012, 03:28 PM
  #209
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anybody but Rick Nash.

Leave it to this insane organization to acquire an 8 million dollar 65 point player.

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06-11-2012, 03:32 PM
  #210
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If the Flyers are moving up in the draft there is no doubt they will be taking one of the top end dman. If they don't I say anything is possible.

Murray
Dumba
Reilly
Reinhart
Finn
Ceci
Lindholm

My pick of course would be Teravainen! Just think he is going to be a stud.

Murray would be my choice though. Somewhere I heard he has the potential to be the best overall dman in the group. Probably heard that from a lot of people, but Button has him at 13 on his new ratings.

Reinhart would be my second choice.


Last edited by Prongo: 06-11-2012 at 03:49 PM.
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Old
06-11-2012, 03:32 PM
  #211
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Something strange is going on.

Someone is going to end up having a virus before all is said and done.

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Old
06-11-2012, 03:34 PM
  #212
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyersfan9180 View Post
If the Flyers are moving up in the draft there is no doubt they will be taking one of the top end dman. If they don't I say anything is possible.

Murray
Dumba
Reilly
Reinhart
Finn
Ceci
Lindholm

My pick of course would be Teravainen! Just think he is going to be a stud.

Murray would be my choice though. Somewhere I heard he has the potential to be the best overall dman in the group. Probably heard that from a lot of people, but Button has him at 13 on his new ratings.
I'll take him off their hands like Couts....

Quote:
Cody Nickolet (WHLFromAbove) via twitter: The Blue Jackets will be meeting with Ryan Murray today. He could jump directly into their lineup next year.

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Old
06-11-2012, 03:42 PM
  #213
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Originally Posted by Coutsiephan View Post
I'll take him off their hands like Couts....
Yea, I wouldn't mind either. I wonder what it would really cost to move into the top 5 in this draft. Even the top 8.

I am not good at figuring out the value of moving up, but what do you people think it would take to move up there. I hope that price doesn't include Voracek.

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06-11-2012, 03:48 PM
  #214
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tuckrr View Post
i just hope if hes moved, we get PAID.

something like:
Tor's 1st (5th overall)
L. Schenn

for
JvR
Philly's 1st (20th overall)

if grigorenko is still on the list @ #5 I'd grab him and call it a night.


FORWARDS
Jakub Voracek ($3.000m) / Claude Giroux ($3.750m) / Jaromir Jagr ($3.000m)
Scott Hartnell ($4.200m) / Brayden Schenn ($3.110m) / Danny Briere ($6.500m)
Wayne Simmonds ($1.750m) / Sean Couturier ($1.375m) / Mikhail Grigorenko ($1.375m)
Eric Wellwood ($0.580m) / Maxime Talbot ($1.750m) / Matt Read ($0.900m)
Zac Rinaldo ($0.544m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Braydon Coburn ($4.500m) / Kimmo Timonen ($6.333m)
Matt Carle ($4.750m) / Luke Schenn ($3.600m)
Nicklas Grossmann ($3.500m) / Andrej Meszaros ($4.000m)
Andreas Lilja ($0.738m) /
GOALTENDERS
Ilya Bryzgalov ($5.667m)
Sergei Bobrovsky ($1.750m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $70,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $66,671,944; BONUSES: $3,555,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $3,628,056


we could spend carle's salary + 3mil to get suter (if hes available)
Yes please

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Old
06-11-2012, 03:52 PM
  #215
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Forget Suter..Detroit is desperate and has cash that Greece and Spain would love to have..

As far as Carle..seems like he's staying but if he does take a discount and then he stinks next year ..at least his contract will still be movable barring any NMC or just him totally stinking it up...

Quote:
Ted Kulfan of the Detroit News: After trading Brad Stuart to the Sharks, and the retirement of Nicklas Lidstrom, the Red Wings need some defensemen, either by trade or free agency. Ryan Suter, Matt Carle, Barret Jackman and Dennis Wideman are UFAs that will gain interest around the league. The Red Wings will be interested in Justin Schultz. ”We’ll be active,” Holland said. “We’ve lost two quality defensemen.”

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...-rights-Sharks

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Old
06-11-2012, 03:58 PM
  #216
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyersfan9180 View Post
Yea, I wouldn't mind either. I wonder what it would really cost to move into the top 5 in this draft. Even the top 8.

I am not good at figuring out the value of moving up, but what do you people think it would take to move up there. I hope that price doesn't include Voracek.
Here are some past draft trades listed here....

http://www.broadstreethockey.com/201...ft-trade-value

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06-11-2012, 04:03 PM
  #217
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Quote:
Originally Posted by healthyscratch View Post
Here are some past draft trades listed here....

http://www.broadstreethockey.com/201...ft-trade-value
the problem is that article doesnt talk about players as much...

JvR > L. Schenn

(we know we've got toronto sold on that)

how much is #5 > #20?
(a ton)

how much of a gap is there? How impatient is burke to get into the playoffs?

next years 1st?
nick cousins, matt read, bobrovsky?
somewhere in between?

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06-11-2012, 04:15 PM
  #218
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tuckrr View Post
the problem is that article doesnt talk about players as much...

JvR > L. Schenn

(we know we've got toronto sold on that)

how much is #5 > #20?
(a ton)

how much of a gap is there? How impatient is burke to get into the playoffs?

next years 1st?
nick cousins, matt read, bobrovsky?
somewhere in between?
Different draft years mean different value, etc., but to ballpark it out...

Figure the difference between JVR and Luke Schenn is a high 2nd or so--

In most of those trades, it cost a 2nd or so to go up 3 spots in the draft.

The Flyers would be moving up 15 spots--so roughly the value of 5 second round picks.

Take one of those out for JVR--> Schenn.

You're looking at at least a handful of second rounders value-wise--maybe a future 1st / 3rd.

(On the other hand, I can't see either the Flyers or the Leafs relying on futures to make up the difference in value).

Best guess, it would take something else from our roster to get it done. Probably something like Read or Simmonds.

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06-11-2012, 04:33 PM
  #219
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People saying that Rick Nash has shown signs of decline for a couple of years at 27 are insane. He's right in his prime, he's simply in one of the worst NHL teams ever. Look at some elite wingers's stats at 27-28 and tell me if they were declining... I know Brett Hull scored his 86 goals season at that age. Jagr also won the Hart at that age.

And the Parise argument isn't really good either : There are 30 teams willing to sign him. Plus, Nash is better imo.

And the we need defense argument: we also need defense from forwards.

Not saying we should do that trade, but Nash would sure fit very well in that team.

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06-11-2012, 04:38 PM
  #220
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YuioIklo View Post
People saying that Rick Nash has shown signs of decline for a couple of years at 27 are insane. He's right in his prime, he's simply in one of the worst NHL teams ever. Look at some elite wingers's stats at 27-28 and tell me if they were declining... I know Brett Hull scored his 86 goals season at that age. Jagr also won the Hart at that age.

And the Parise argument isn't really good either : There are 30 teams willing to sign him. Plus, Nash is better imo.

And the we need defense argument: we also need defense from forwards.

Not saying we should do that trade, but Nash would sure fit very well in that team.
Meh. I sort of agree.

Counter arguments:

1. Parise's cap hit will likely come in a bit lower than Nash's ($6.75M per over a long term)

2. Parise is absolutely a better _defensive_ player than Nash, so he'd be a better asset for our team defense.

3. Parise costs nothing in terms of assets.

That said, I see no reason the Flyers shouldn't at least kick the tires, and I wouldn't think twice is JVR and Bob were the two main pieces going back.

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06-11-2012, 04:52 PM
  #221
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this team needs size at the forward position

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06-11-2012, 04:56 PM
  #222
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@ctherien: Watching CSN right now on JVR stuff. You'd think I was watching a James Bond movie. Oh the secrets and espionage
5:22pm - 11 Jun 12


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06-11-2012, 05:03 PM
  #223
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this team needs size at the forward position
The team doesn't need size at the forward position. Other than Giroux, Briere and possibly Wellwood, there's more than enough size up front. They need a good run of health. Plain and simple.

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06-11-2012, 05:16 PM
  #224
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YuioIklo View Post
People saying that Rick Nash has shown signs of decline for a couple of years at 27 are insane. He's right in his prime, he's simply in one of the worst NHL teams ever. Look at some elite wingers's stats at 27-28 and tell me if they were declining... I know Brett Hull scored his 86 goals season at that age. Jagr also won the Hart at that age.

And the Parise argument isn't really good either : There are 30 teams willing to sign him. Plus, Nash is better imo.

And the we need defense argument: we also need defense from forwards.

Not saying we should do that trade, but Nash would sure fit very well in that team.
Nash isn't Hull or Jagr. He's exiting his prime, and he makes $8 mil.

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06-11-2012, 05:18 PM
  #225
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7.8 million in cap space would be far better spent on defense than another forward. We have plenty of forwards.

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