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value of Carlson or Alzner to NYI

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Old
06-11-2012, 10:33 AM
  #51
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Originally Posted by blinkman360 View Post
I'd rather take my chances with Murray. Barring an EDM trade down I'm pretty confident he'll be there at the 4th pick.
I don't think so. Slightly off-topic, but I think EDM takes Yakupov, CBJ take Murray and MTL takes Grigorenko.

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06-11-2012, 10:49 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by fedfed View Post
I don't think so. Slightly off-topic, but I think EDM takes Yakupov, CBJ take Murray and MTL takes Grigorenko.
Just don't see CBJ taking Murray. I think when the 2-4 or 5 prospects are rated so close, need will be taken into account. With a relatively strong defense and Nash most likely on the way out, I don't see how the Jackets do not take one of Forsberg or Galchenyuk. With Murray's questionable offensive upside, I just don't see them taking a risk on passing up a star forward for a guy who could end up being just a solid #3 with little offensive output.

With Nash gone the Jackets have only Johansen to build around. Obviously they will receive at least one big piece in the Nash trade, but if it's with a team like the Rangers that piece will most likely be a defenseman. That will make a Murray pick even less likely, IMO.

I honestly think there's a better chance of the Isles passing on Murray than there is of Murray being taken at pick 1, 2, or 3.

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06-11-2012, 10:58 AM
  #53
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I remember Jackets rumored to be asking for the "franchise D" in the Nash trade.

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06-11-2012, 11:04 AM
  #54
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Might as well rename the thread "Value of Tavares to Washington".

Islanders would be much better off asking for Orlov. He's gonna be just as good as the two above, but he's unproven and has much lower value as a result. I wouldn't trade him unless its ridiculous but I can see caps fans being ok with Orlov, 16th and Boston's 2nd for 4th overall. Maybe if Galchenyuk is still there.

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06-11-2012, 11:13 AM
  #55
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This is dumb...Alzner and Carlson are as untouchable as Barry Sanders in an elevator. You can come close but your not touching them

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06-11-2012, 11:19 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Halpysback View Post
Might as well rename the thread "Value of Tavares to Washington".
Islanders would be much better off asking for Orlov. He's gonna be just as good as the two above, but he's unproven and has much lower value as a result. I wouldn't trade him unless its ridiculous but I can see caps fans being ok with Orlov, 16th and Boston's 2nd for 4th overall. Maybe if Galchenyuk is still there.
Not even tempting.

Not with Snow's trouble with several of his Russian prospects and the KHL:
Grebs ,Petrov,Klementyev and Alexandrov have all either been contract problems or just refused to play in the AHL.All are in the KHL.

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06-11-2012, 11:22 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by fedfed View Post
I don't think so. Slightly off-topic, but I think EDM takes Yakupov, CBJ take Murray and MTL takes Grigorenko.
Portzline,the Blue Jackets beatwriter went to the recent draft combine.He reported that he thinks the Blue Jackets want Forsberg and would like to trade down a few slots to get him.

If Murray is Snow's top choice,we could see the Isles and Blue Jackets make a draft day trade.Flipping spots.

Or,Snow could simply gamble that ..
Edmonton takes Nail #1.
Columbus takes Forsberg at #2
Montreal takes either Grigs or Galchenyuk #3
leaving Snow to take Murray at #4

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06-11-2012, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
Not even tempting.

Not with Snow's trouble with several of his Russian prospects and the KHL:
Grebs ,Petrov,Klementyev and Alexandrov have all either been contract problems or just refused to play in the AHL.All are in the KHL.
Orlov is already on an ELC and an NHL player though. Unless you want to stuff him in the AHL for some reason even though he has played half a season of very good NHL level hockey. Those other guys weren't NHL players when you courted them (though not sure about Grebeshkov but that's going pretty far back).

I'm fine keeping him. Looks a lot like McDonaugh the year before he broke out. Not saying he'll be as good but he has the tools.

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06-11-2012, 11:33 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Halpysback View Post
Orlov is already on an ELC and an NHL player though. Unless you want to stuff him in the AHL for some reason even though he has played half a season of very good NHL level hockey. Those other guys weren't NHL players when you courted them (though not sure about Grebeshkov but that's going pretty far back).

I'm fine keeping him. Looks a lot like McDonaugh the year before he broke out. Not saying he'll be as good but he has the tools.

Denis Grebeshkov was a 1st rounder,signed to an NHL contract and playing for the isles,when Snow felt the young defenseman needed more time in the AHL.He bolted to the KHL and we haven't seen him since.
Petrov,drafted in 2008, keeps saying he wants to play in the NHL,but won't come over.
Klementyev and Alexandrov both came over to play in NA and later headed home.

My comments against using high picks on Russians, are in the Isles draft thread from the past 2-3 months.

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06-11-2012, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Halpysback View Post
Might as well rename the thread "Value of Tavares to Washington".Islanders would be much better off asking for Orlov. He's gonna be just as good as the two above, but he's unproven and has much lower value as a result. I wouldn't trade him unless its ridiculous but I can see caps fans being ok with Orlov, 16th and Boston's 2nd for 4th overall. Maybe if Galchenyuk is still there.
Tavares has more value than Carlson and Alzner combined.

Ovi is the only one that it can be said is better than JT.
But if you consider contract, age, and production JT has more Value...

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06-11-2012, 02:35 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by StrongIslanders90 View Post
Tavares has more value than Carlson and Alzner combined.

Ovi is the only one that it can be said is better than JT.
But if you consider contract, age, and production JT has more Value...
Backstrom
Carlson+Alzner
Ovi

All have more value than Tavares, who had one fantastic year.

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06-11-2012, 02:45 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by fedfed View Post
Backstrom
Carlson+Alzner
Ovi

All have more value than Tavares, who had one fantastic year.
Troll. Am I doing it right?



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06-11-2012, 02:46 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by fedfed View Post
Backstrom
Carlson+Alzner
Ovi

All have more value than Tavares, who had one fantastic year.
Alright that's nice, you keep your guys we'll keep ours.

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06-11-2012, 02:57 PM
  #64
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the p'ing match has lifted off. enough.
the caps are not going to trade either of carlson or alzner.

they are an effective shutdown pair and only 2 full seasons into each of their careers.
after the caps playoff exit several canadian media types including mr 30 thoughts said its
a common opinion that carlson is a future norris winner. who trades that kind of player?

alzner is a top 5 pick who is only getting better while already a stud. who trades that?

once that is established the return conversation is a waste of time. at best its going to annoye everyone. and.....it has. next?

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06-11-2012, 03:08 PM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fedfed View Post
Backstrom
Carlson+Alzner
Ovi

All have more value than Tavares, who had one fantastic year.

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06-11-2012, 03:18 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
Portzline,the Blue Jackets beatwriter went to the recent draft combine.He reported that he thinks the Blue Jackets want Forsberg and would like to trade down a few slots to get him.

If Murray is Snow's top choice,we could see the Isles and Blue Jackets make a draft day trade.Flipping spots.

Or,Snow could simply gamble that ..
Edmonton takes Nail #1.
Columbus takes Forsberg at #2
Montreal takes either Grigs or Galchenyuk #3
leaving Snow to take Murray at #4
Or, Tambo swaps picks with Bergevin (for a nice return) and...
MTL takes Yakupov #1,
CBJ takes Forsberg #2,
EDM takes Murray #3, and
NYI ???

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06-11-2012, 03:24 PM
  #67
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Wait how is he trolling

Ovechkin is Ovechkin, Backstrom is an 85-100 point excellent all around center himself, Carlson + Alzner has the potential to be the next incarnation of Weber + Suter and played some of the best hockey of any defensive pairing this year in the playoffs while being about the same age as Tavares.

Not that Isles would make those trades but I'd say value is comparable.

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06-11-2012, 03:33 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by JawandaPuck View Post
Or, Tambo swaps picks with Bergevin (for a nice return) and...
MTL takes Yakupov #1,
CBJ takes Forsberg #2,
EDM takes Murray #3, and
NYI ???
I'll play.

After EDM trades down with MTL, the Isles trade up with CBJ for the #2 pick:

MTL take Yakupov #1,
NYI take Murray #2,
EDM take (insert center) #3,
CBJ take Forsberg #4

With Hall, Eberle, Hemsky and Paajarvi already on the roster, I doubt CBJ would worry about Edmonton taking their winger in Forsberg if they drop down below them. I think the Isles would gladly pay the 2nd + prospect/pick to move up 2 spots to get their guy. Thanks to Edmonton getting cute they successfully miss out on both their guys. Congrats.

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06-11-2012, 03:34 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by StrongIslanders90 View Post
Tavares has more value than Carlson and Alzner combined.

Ovi is the only one that it can be said is better than JT.
But if you consider contract, age, and production JT has more Value...
Backstrom is definitely at least on par with Tavares, and probably better considering he's a proven quantity more than Tavares is. Age wise they have very similar production (67 and 69 points during their 19/20 season, 81 and 88 points during their 20/21 season). Career year wise, Backstrom is easily ahead (Backstrom had 258 points in his first three years to Tavares' 202).

The difference is, Backstrom has already been that 100+ point player that many hope that Tavares will become. Backstrom is coming off of a point/game campaign (44 points in 42 games), and is better than a point/game over his career.

If you polled GMs, I think you'd find that there really isn't much separation between Backstrom and Tavares and there would be plenty who'd prefer the former.

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06-11-2012, 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by blinkman360 View Post
I'll play.

After EDM trades down with MTL, the Isles trade up with CBJ for the #2 pick:

MTL take Yakupov #1,
NYI take Murray #2,
EDM take (insert center) #3,
CBJ take Forsberg #4

With Hall, Eberle, Hemsky and Paajarvi already on the roster, I doubt CBJ would worry about Edmonton taking their winger in Forsberg if they drop down below them. I think the Isles would gladly pay the 2nd + prospect/pick to move up 2 spots to get their guy. Thanks to Edmonton getting cute they successfully miss out on both their guys. Congrats.
You just proved my point by swapping the NYI and CBJ picks. Thanks.

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06-11-2012, 03:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Mystlyfe View Post
Backstrom is definitely at least on par with Tavares, and probably better considering he's a proven quantity more than Tavares is. Age wise they have very similar production (67 and 69 points during their 19/20 season, 81 and 88 points during their 20/21 season). Career year wise, Backstrom is easily ahead (Backstrom had 258 points in his first three years to Tavares' 202).

The difference is, Backstrom has already been that 100+ point player that many hope that Tavares will become. Backstrom is coming off of a point/game campaign (44 points in 42 games), and is better than a point/game over his career.

If you polled GMs, I think you'd find that there really isn't much separation between Backstrom and Tavares and there would be plenty who'd prefer the former.
Actually, the difference is Backstrom came into this league playing with arguably the best player in the entire league(whatever you want to say about AO right now, you can't deny how good he was at that point in his career), while Tavares has turned 2 career AHLers into one perennial 30+ goal scorer and another who is about to get a big-time pay day.

I like Backstrom a lot, and I'm not going to say Tavares is a better player or vice-versa, but let's be real... put Ovechkin of '07-09 on Tavares' wing the last 3 years and let's see what JT's numbers would be.

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06-11-2012, 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted by JawandaPuck View Post
You just proved my point by swapping the NYI and CBJ picks. Thanks.
I proved your point? If you don't trade down, we stay put. If you do, we trade up. Either way, you don't get Murray unless you take him 1st overall(which I really don't see Tambo having the balls to do) or trade down with CBJ(which I don't see them giving you guys what you would want in return).

Is that your point?

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06-11-2012, 04:08 PM
  #73
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I proved your point? If you don't trade down, we stay put. If you do, we trade up. Either way, you don't get Murray unless you take him 1st overall(which I really don't see Tambo having the balls to do) or trade down with CBJ(which I don't see them giving you guys what you would want in return).

Is that your point?
The point was, if Snow definitely wants Murray and Murray only, then NYI will have to move up to at least the #2 spot. (I think you're assumption that I was looking at this through an EDM fan's goggles threw you off.)

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06-11-2012, 04:08 PM
  #74
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Actually, the difference is Backstrom came into this league playing with arguably the best player in the entire league(whatever you want to say about AO right now, you can't deny how good he was at that point in his career), while Tavares has turned 2 career AHLers into one perennial 30+ goal scorer and another who is about to get a big-time pay day.

I like Backstrom a lot, and I'm not going to say Tavares is a better player or vice-versa, but let's be real... put Ovechkin of '07-09 on Tavares' wing the last 3 years and let's see what JT's numbers would be.
Well, considering Backstrom didn't play much with Ovechkin until the stretch run of his rookie year and is typically separated from Ovechkin in the playoffs, Nicky's numbers still look pretty darn good.

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06-11-2012, 04:34 PM
  #75
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The point was, if Snow definitely wants Murray and Murray only, then NYI will have to move up to at least the #2 spot. (I think you're assumption that I was looking at this through an EDM fan's goggles threw you off.)
Yes, I assumed you were an EDM fan being a dick.

Still, don't think the Isles "need" to trade up for Murray if he's their guy unless their hand is forced, IE the scenario you posted before.

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