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Hi, my name is Cal Clutterbuck, what am I worth to this team?

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Old
05-24-2012, 06:45 PM
  #26
Jarick
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If you get better players on the third line, you don't have to worry about that.

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05-24-2012, 06:52 PM
  #27
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everyone knows Clutter's limitations...
I think you guys are selling him short in his importance to the team though. You know why GMs would highly value Clutterbuck? Because he's valuable. It would be incredibly ill advised to sign him past 3 years because of the game he plays, but while he's playing like he does he's worth more than the average 3rd liner. We don't have any young players who can "replace" him in any more than a physical presence sense of the word.
Clutter sucks with the puck, yes, but he's better at creating turnovers than just about anyone else on the roster and with a two man forecheck and faster guy on the other wing with Brodz playing it safe it could work well as, say, Zucker comes in to scoop out the puck.
As it stands he is probably our most salable asset outside of our prospects. I just don't think it's worth selling him off for more of those when we've already got so many in the pipeline that look so promising.
He lost his composure quite a bit the second half of the season and that has people really down on him--but please keep in mind if you're counting on Bulms to come in an replace him right away that Bulmer has a much hotter head than Clutter, and will absolutely take more stupid penalties as his comfort level in the NHL grows. That's the kind of player he is. We know that, and know there will be rough patches as he fine-tunes it, but he's just built to be a dick, and he will get called more often.

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05-24-2012, 06:53 PM
  #28
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how many teams have three "scoring" lines where the primary function of the third line is scoring...outside of canadian juniors, i mean.

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05-24-2012, 09:54 PM
  #29
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05-25-2012, 12:51 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rynryn View Post
everyone knows Clutter's limitations...
I think you guys are selling him short in his importance to the team though. You know why GMs would highly value Clutterbuck? Because he's valuable. It would be incredibly ill advised to sign him past 3 years because of the game he plays, but while he's playing like he does he's worth more than the average 3rd liner. We don't have any young players who can "replace" him in any more than a physical presence sense of the word.
Clutter sucks with the puck, yes, but he's better at creating turnovers than just about anyone else on the roster and with a two man forecheck and faster guy on the other wing with Brodz playing it safe it could work well as, say, Zucker comes in to scoop out the puck.
As it stands he is probably our most salable asset outside of our prospects. I just don't think it's worth selling him off for more of those when we've already got so many in the pipeline that look so promising.
He lost his composure quite a bit the second half of the season and that has people really down on him--but please keep in mind if you're counting on Bulms to come in an replace him right away that Bulmer has a much hotter head than Clutter, and will absolutely take more stupid penalties as his comfort level in the NHL grows. That's the kind of player he is. We know that, and know there will be rough patches as he fine-tunes it, but he's just built to be a dick, and he will get called more often.
I think Clutterbuck was frustrated with the way the season went and that didn't help the situation. He should be back to normal next year.

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05-25-2012, 01:00 AM
  #31
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I dunno, I think a few well placed temper tantrums could do the Wild some good if fired off at tactically sound moments.

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05-25-2012, 03:08 AM
  #32
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Clutterbuck would be valuable to a team like the Ducks when they won the Cup. Two real good scoring lines. Great blueline. Solid goaltending. And a pure checking/shut-down 3rd line with zero offense that Clutterbuck could add 15 goals and a ton of hits to.

That's just not the build the Wild is going for.

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05-25-2012, 09:56 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by nickschultzfan View Post
Clutterbuck would be valuable to a team like the Ducks when they won the Cup. Two real good scoring lines. Great blueline. Solid goaltending. And a pure checking/shut-down 3rd line with zero offense that Clutterbuck could add 15 goals and a ton of hits to.

That's just not the build the Wild is going for.
you need to let go of the three scoring line fantasy, man. There's a reason that doesn't work.

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05-25-2012, 10:47 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rynryn View Post
you need to let go of the three scoring line fantasy, man. There's a reason that doesn't work.
It works if you have outstanding depth and amazing two-way center to play against opposition top forwards ;P like Flyers had.. Wild has that center but no depth (yet)

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05-25-2012, 03:31 PM
  #35
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Until we're absolutely sure Bulmer can effectively replace him, you keep Clutter.

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06-10-2012, 09:15 PM
  #36
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Clutterbuck is the type of players whose true worth would show in the post season in my opinion. He's always quick on the forecheck and up until last year was a hitting machine. (From what I understand he slowed down in that regard quite a bit last year).

As for worth...hmmm.... I'd like to think he'd be happy with burrows type money (2 million per season) but Burrows, at the time of his signing, was thought to have taken a massive "hometown discount" so it's pretty hard to compare the 2 players and their situation. I think if you get him inked for 1.5-2 your team comes out smelling pretty good and it could be said he took a cut.

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06-10-2012, 09:53 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by rynryn View Post
you need to let go of the three scoring line fantasy, man. There's a reason that doesn't work.
What are you talking about? I am just pointing our that our 3rd line winger clutterbuck plays terrible with our 3rd line center brodziak. And I choose brodziak.

If Belanger was our third line center, then whatever.

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06-10-2012, 10:06 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by nickschultzfan View Post
What are you talking about? I am just pointing our that our 3rd line winger clutterbuck plays terrible with our 3rd line center brodziak. And I choose brodziak.

If Belanger was our third line center, then whatever.
oh, pardon me. I thought you meant we were going with a different build than a pure checking/shutdown 3rd line like the ducks had when you said the Wild was going for a different build than one that has a pure checking/shutdown 3rd line. and i'm fairly sure Yeo has said before that he likes a two scoring line, two checking line system.

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06-10-2012, 11:48 PM
  #39
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My main point is that Clutterbuck would be best playing zero offense, low puck-possession, but physical and shut-down 3rd line. Exactly like the Ducks 3rd line when they won the Cup. That team had decent offense in the top-6, and they're defense was good enough, that any offensive that was chipped in from the bottom-6 was 100% bonus.

On a team like that, Clutterbuck would be immensely valuable. He could hit and score, but his offensive negatives (bad puck possession and skating past the puck to get a hit) would be minimized.

Instead, we have a 3rd line built around Brodziak, who negates the other team's best lines by eating up huge chunks of time cycling the puck in the offensive zone, something Clutterbuck can't. And our defense that isn't a shut-down blueline.

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06-10-2012, 11:55 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickschultzfan View Post
My main point is that Clutterbuck would be best playing zero offense, low puck-possession, but physical and shut-down 3rd line. Exactly like the Ducks 3rd line when they won the Cup. That team had decent offense in the top-6, and they're defense was good enough, that any offensive that was chipped in from the bottom-6 was 100% bonus.

On a team like that, Clutterbuck would be immensely valuable. He could hit and score, but his offensive negatives (bad puck possession and skating past the puck to get a hit) would be minimized.

Instead, we have a 3rd line built around Brodziak, who negates the other team's best lines by eating up huge chunks of time cycling the puck in the offensive zone, something Clutterbuck can't. And our defense that isn't a shut-down blueline.

god knows that's the truth! Clutterbuck isn't a cycling player, true, but Brodziak doesn't need to do that to be effective either. He's just fine covering for Clutters over aggression. I really don't see it as a problem, though i see more clearly what you're talking about.

edit: and I still feel Yeo would prefer Clutters disruptive and irritating game over a third line based on puck possession. I mean ideally you want possession as much as possible but realistically I don't think we can put together a third line that's going to be good enough at it to give up what clutter brings in energy and disruption.

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06-11-2012, 10:26 AM
  #41
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No offense and low puck possession with physical play is a fourth line. The third line should be quality two-way players. Brodziak is an excellent third liner. Clutterbuck is an excellent fourth liner.

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06-11-2012, 10:54 AM
  #42
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awesome. I don't think Yeo feels the same way though. When did Clutter go from being one of the best third line players in the league to a fourth line guy?

edit: i'm saying Yeo likes crash and bang hockey on his bottom lines. Clutter is the definition. Brodziak is more than capable of playing that way too.

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06-11-2012, 11:32 AM
  #43
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I don't think we can take last year as evidence of what Yeo wants to have in the lineup.

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06-11-2012, 11:43 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by rynryn View Post
oh, pardon me. I thought you meant we were going with a different build than a pure checking/shutdown 3rd line like the ducks had when you said the Wild was going for a different build than one that has a pure checking/shutdown 3rd line. and i'm fairly sure Yeo has said before that he likes a two scoring line, two checking line system.
Kind of odd considering Koivu's line was usually matched up vs. the other teams top line.

Checking/scoring line doesn't mean much on the Wild, as they try to have all lines play a responsible 2 way game.

There's nothing that says the 3rd line couldn't be a scoring line provided they had the talent to score; the defensive responsibility is always going to be a requirement.

The pure checking line ceased to exist on this team once Wes Walz hung 'em up.

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06-11-2012, 03:15 PM
  #45
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Kind of odd considering Koivu's line was usually matched up vs. the other teams top line.

Checking/scoring line doesn't mean much on the Wild, as they try to have all lines play a responsible 2 way game.

There's nothing that says the 3rd line couldn't be a scoring line provided they had the talent to score; the defensive responsibility is always going to be a requirement.

The pure checking line ceased to exist on this team once Wes Walz hung 'em up.
as Jarick was implying last year was far from ideal and with all the AHL (and not good AHL at that) callups it's pretty hard for a coach to get the team running the way he wants it. Clutterbuck does have the ability to score on the third line by creating his own chances. It's not the way a lot of people would prefer we score but it's still more than a lot of the guys on our roster can manage. Koivu continues to be matched to top lines because he's simply the best defensive forward we have. We didn't have the guns to score last year so the plan was to try to keep the other guys from scoring. Our bottom six was great the beginning of the year playing crash and bang and getting opportunities because of great puck support and hustle, not cycling and possession.

As far as what I think Yeo wants I'm not stating it as fact--I thought i remembered a quote somewhere but i don't have the faintest idea where I'd look it up. I really gotta start archiving all this. I'm sure it was from a Russo article somwhere way back when he was hired.

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06-11-2012, 03:41 PM
  #46
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Yeo was doing matchups more than Richards but less than Lemaire. But you could tell he wanted three lines that could play defense and work the puck.

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06-11-2012, 04:47 PM
  #47
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Trade-bait for a puck-moving d-man, hopefully.

As for his next contract, needs to be better than last season to justify a raise. 10-15g 3rd line wingers who can kill penalties are replaceable. I don't care what Bergenheim, Ward, Kopecky, etc. got on the open market as UFAs, Cal's an RFA and there's a whole lot of comparables who have signed for less than 2M per.

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06-11-2012, 05:43 PM
  #48
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I agree, we should move Clutter before we lose him for nothing.

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06-11-2012, 05:44 PM
  #49
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He's an RFA next year, we aren't losing him for nothing.

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06-11-2012, 06:19 PM
  #50
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yeah but "before we lose him for nothing" is everyone's favorite reason to trade someone. He's probably just planning ahead.

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