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Jonathan Bernier

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Old
06-11-2012, 06:06 PM
  #51
Vic Vinegar
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Originally Posted by weak5holeguy View Post
What is Reimer worth then? He's more proven then Bernier and has better stats despite playing on a vastly inferior team that can't play a lick of defence. Bernier's value is not of a 11th overall pick, I'd say Ben Bishop probably as more value then Bernier. You're getting a 2nd round pick or a struggling prospect for him right now. I guarantee it.
When did I say anything about Reimer?

Bernier still has the same upside he did when he was drafted in the 1st round and he has already been developed for a few years now. Any team that trades a 1st round pick for Bernier is basically drafting a highly regarded prospect, except they don't have to deal with 5 years of development.

And how does Bishop have more value than Bernier? At the time of the trade, Bishop had actually proven less than Bernier had, he's a year older, and isn't as highly regarded by scouts.

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Originally Posted by weak5holeguy View Post
Bull****, Why are Quicks number's so superior to Berniers. This isn't a Halak/Price situation where both showed capable of being a #1G.
If Bernier was playing well he would get more starts. That isn't the case.

2011-12 Los Angeles NHL 16 5 6 2 890 35 383 2.36 .909 1
2010-11 Los Angeles NHL 25 11 8 3 1378 57 652 2.48 .913 3

Hardly great numbers for a supposedly top goalie prospect.
Well, for one, Quick's numbers are better because he's a better goalie. But that's not really a knock on Bernier because Quick is one of the best. Bernier's numbers also suffer because 1) he rarely plays so he can never get into a rhythm (very important for a lot of goalies) and 2) many of his starts were during the time period when the Kings were just awful. Like, Columbus bad.

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06-11-2012, 06:40 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by BarberioTheBarbarian View Post
According the LA fans its more than Varlamov.
I don't think too many people believe that. I believe Bernier will bring in a handsome haul, but at the time of that trade Colorado looked like they gave up an absolute ton. I don't think even colorado believed they would be as good as the were.

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06-11-2012, 06:44 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by crazyforhockey View Post
Bernier one knock he has to overcome.... hes not a big goalie... which alot of GMs value in the new NHL...ie if a big goalie is still in the butterfly there isnt alot of net to shoot at.

he does have good to very good talent (we have yet to see consistent at the NHL level though)

1st year he came in and three spectacular gms against three good teams two playoff and one that just missed.

2nd year he only started about 10 gms vs playoff teams .901 sv % 6-4 ...3 of those vs Nas

this year only played 5 gms vs playoff teams and LA couldnt rely on him to give quality gms down the stretch(ie fighting for playoff spots)
7gms played.....5 started vs playoff teams 4-1-0 .88sv % again two wins vs Nash





curious as Bernier WILLNOT be a starter this coming year and maybe possibly not the backup on the new team.....this year

what type of return is realistic.....

remmeber he played on one of the most defensive team

Halak(smaller goalie) had a great playoff run.... schnieder played in some of their big games (reg season ) and played in playoffs.

To me he has good upside but its still risky at this stage.

a 4th maybe a third in a small future goalie market...maybe a 2nd if GM is desperate and believes in him wholeheartly......
I doubt too many would agree with that value. It was rumored and later confirmed that the Kings turned down the same deal that Colorado gave up for Varlamov. I can't see them taking much less than a mid first this year now that they are set on Quick.

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06-11-2012, 06:50 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by UniverStalinGraduate View Post
First off, LoL at Quick being the best goalie in the league. Stop listening to the media so much and watch the actual games, the Kings limit opposition scoring chances like crazy.


Third...the Kings are so far from in the drivers seat with Bernier it's not even funny.
While Kurrilino was a little sensational, this post isn't correct.

The Kings were right in the middle of the pack in terms of scoring chances allowed. Also, the ratio of scoring chances per start the Bernier faced was pretty damn high. He and Quick did not see the same pressure. The Kings commentators made mention many times that the Kings seem to lay down in front of Bernier. Scoring chances and shots were increased dramatically when bernier started.

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06-11-2012, 06:51 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by DimMak187 View Post
When did I say anything about Reimer?

Bernier still has the same upside he did when he was drafted in the 1st round and he has already been developed for a few years now. Any team that trades a 1st round pick for Bernier is basically drafting a highly regarded prospect, except they don't have to deal with 5 years of development.

And how does Bishop have more value than Bernier? At the time of the trade, Bishop had actually proven less than Bernier had, he's a year older, and isn't as highly regarded by scouts.


Well, for one, Quick's numbers are better because he's a better goalie. But that's not really a knock on Bernier because Quick is one of the best. Bernier's numbers also suffer because 1) he rarely plays so he can never get into a rhythm (very important for a lot of goalies) and 2) many of his starts were during the time period when the Kings were just awful. Like, Columbus bad.
Same arguments we heard for Fiset, Denis, Toskola, etc, etc. To many teams have been burned on these supposed great young goaltenders that are just stuck behind someone.

Steve Mason is worth more than Bernier. Book it. And why wouldnt you? He's proven more at the same age.

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06-11-2012, 06:54 PM
  #56
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I don't think too many people believe that. I believe Bernier will bring in a handsome haul, but at the time of that trade Colorado looked like they gave up an absolute ton. I don't think even colorado believed they would be as good as the were.
I don't think too many people agree with you.

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06-11-2012, 06:59 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by no name View Post
I doubt too many would agree with that value. It was rumored and later confirmed that the Kings turned down the same deal that Colorado gave up for Varlamov. I can't see them taking much less than a mid first this year now that they are set on Quick.
I stand corrected then....first is probably attainable then... and we will see what people end up playing ...TB better get a vet to play alot of games then as Bernier is not ready to play 35+ gms imo(this year)

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06-11-2012, 07:01 PM
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Originally Posted by DimMak187 View Post
When did I say anything about Reimer?

Bernier still has the same upside he did when he was drafted in the 1st round and he has already been developed for a few years now. Any team that trades a 1st round pick for Bernier is basically drafting a highly regarded prospect, except they don't have to deal with 5 years of development.
Going 5 years past your draft without developing to the point you were expected to actually means his value has depreciated since then. He's a little small, he's entirely unproven, and he hasn't been getting a lot of practice riding the pine behind Quick -- any team that picks him up to start is gambling quite a bit. Bernier's return will be decent, but it's not going to be anything like the "10th overall + your best prospect!!!!1" proposals Kings fans have been kicking around.

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06-11-2012, 07:01 PM
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So Enstrom for Bernier, good forward prospect and a conditional 1st/2nd?

Sound good?

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06-11-2012, 07:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Petes2424 View Post
Same arguments we heard for Fiset, Denis, Toskola, etc, etc. To many teams have been burned on these supposed great young goaltenders that are just stuck behind someone.

Steve Mason is worth more than Bernier. Book it. And why wouldnt you? He's proven more at the same age.
this,

as a fan of a team that needs a Goalie, I wouldnt give all that much for Bernier. he and Quick were fighting for the job for the Last few years and Quick stood up and took it. Bernier bascally did nothing to win that Job.

Schneider is a better choice but he's one year away from unrestricted free agency and Vancouver will probably keep him. the young Goalie I want is the Islanders Poulin, hes 5 or 6 years from free agency and Patrick Roy says he's the best Goalie prospect he's ever seen. when Patrick Roy one of the best goalies ever says that I listen. so I figure the best LA could get is maybe a 2nd

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06-11-2012, 07:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Petes2424 View Post
Same arguments we heard for Fiset, Denis, Toskola, etc, etc. To many teams have been burned on these supposed great young goaltenders that are just stuck behind someone.

Steve Mason is worth more than Bernier. Book it. And why wouldnt you? He's proven more at the same age.
Mason has proven he can melt at the drop of a hat. He's proven that he has bankruptwhat was an unparralelled amount of equity that he built early on. He's now a bad goalie and earning way maore than he's worth to a club, and that's not that much. Bernier has not had a chance to do this. The team paying for him will be paying for a top end talent, without having built any credit. He will draw a return, but the trading team will be taking risk. Any success in life is built and lost with risk. But, Bernier's talent and character is a solid hedge.

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06-11-2012, 07:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Petes2424 View Post
Same arguments we heard for Fiset, Denis, Toskola, etc, etc. To many teams have been burned on these supposed great young goaltenders that are just stuck behind someone.

Steve Mason is worth more than Bernier. Book it. And why wouldnt you? He's proven more at the same age.
More proven at being terrible.

I'll go back to my original point. Ben Bishop, who had proven less than Bernier, was a year older, and was not regarded as highly by scouts, was traded for a 2nd rounder. I don't think it's ridiculous to expect something like a 1st rounder or a player like Connolly in return, especially if he's packaged with one of LA's defense prospects.

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06-11-2012, 07:05 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by tsujimoto74 View Post
Going 5 years past your draft without developing to the point you were expected to actually means his value has depreciated since then. He's a little small, he's entirely unproven, and he hasn't been getting a lot of practice riding the pine behind Quick -- any team that picks him up to start is gambling quite a bit. Bernier's return will be decent, but it's not going to be anything like the "10th overall + your best prospect!!!!1" proposals Kings fans have been kicking around.
Very few Kings fans support this.

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06-11-2012, 07:07 PM
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Originally Posted by sully1410 View Post
So Enstrom for Bernier, good forward prospect and a conditional 1st/2nd?

Sound good?
No, the Kings need more forward prospects, not less, and Enstrom, as good as he is, would be redundant in LA's lineup.

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06-11-2012, 07:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 54roughing View Post
this,

as a fan of a team that needs a Goalie, I wouldnt give all that much for Bernier. he and Quick were fighting for the job for the Last few years and Quick stood up and took it. Bernier bascally did nothing to win that Job.
What? When Bernier entered the NHL Quick had set franchise records in just about every goalie stat, along with a playoff birth. I think I've proven here that i have a level head about the situation so I can say without bias that this post is a bit silly.

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06-11-2012, 07:17 PM
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Originally Posted by DimMak187 View Post
More proven at being terrible.

I'll go back to my original point. Ben Bishop, who had proven less than Bernier, was a year older, and was not regarded as highly by scouts, was traded for a 2nd rounder. I don't think it's ridiculous to expect something like a 1st rounder or a player like Connolly in return, especially if he's packaged with one of LA's defense prospects.
Two years ago, nobody would've been saying that about Mason. Once again, he's proven that he can play well in the NHL for an extended period of time. Bernier has not.

Let's face it guys. He's 25 years old already. He's far from a cant miss type guy. A second round pick is about what the Kings should get. To think you can get a Connolly is crazy.

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06-11-2012, 07:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Petes2424 View Post
Two years ago, nobody would've been saying that about Mason. Once again, he's proven that he can play well in the NHL for an extended period of time. Bernier has not.

Let's face it guys. He's 25 years old already. He's far from a cant miss type guy. A second round pick is about what the Kings should get. To think you can get a Connolly is crazy.
Every media source that has covered it has said the Kings will no doubt get a first and a prospect or Connolly. That is proffesionals who talk to teams and analize trends for a living.

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06-11-2012, 07:30 PM
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Here is one of many blurbs about the value of Bernier over the past couple days. This is from ESPN Insider:


One potential Bernier trade

9:02AM ET


Jonathan Bernier | Kings

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Jonathan Bernier may be the best goalie available this offseason, but the Los Angeles Kings will be asking for a decent amount for the young goalie. The Edmonton Journal's Jim Matheson sees the Tampa Bay Lightning as a good landing spot -- and the Bolts can offer one of their first-rounders (No. 10 or 19) and backup goalie Mathieu Garon. However, with the goalie market shrinking and Cory Schneider off the market, a team like the Lightning -- who likely want a young, elite goalie -- don't have many options. So the Kings may be able to squeeze a bit more out of this deal.


Lebrun said the Kings will be overwhelmed with interest from TB and hinted they could name their price.

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06-11-2012, 08:41 PM
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Every media source that has covered it has said the Kings will no doubt get a first and a prospect or Connolly. That is proffesionals who talk to teams and analize trends for a living.
One name....Eklund. He is complete crap but just because he makes a living off it makes him credible?

The point here is I believe Bernier + can warrant Connolly +. The + from tampa being lower than the + from LA

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06-11-2012, 09:19 PM
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Here is one of many blurbs about the value of Bernier over the past couple days. This is from ESPN Insider:


One potential Bernier trade

9:02AM ET


Jonathan Bernier | Kings

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Jonathan Bernier may be the best goalie available this offseason, but the Los Angeles Kings will be asking for a decent amount for the young goalie. The Edmonton Journal's Jim Matheson sees the Tampa Bay Lightning as a good landing spot -- and the Bolts can offer one of their first-rounders (No. 10 or 19) and backup goalie Mathieu Garon. However, with the goalie market shrinking and Cory Schneider off the market, a team like the Lightning -- who likely want a young, elite goalie -- don't have many options. So the Kings may be able to squeeze a bit more out of this deal.

Bolded part shows he doesn't have a clue.

There is no way Tampa trades Garon. Garon may be a career backup, but he can put in 40+ games if needed. That is huge if they are bringing in a young goalie who has never been a #1.

Additionally, while L.A. will need a backup once Bernier is gone, they probably will want something instead of a backup in the trade. Quick is good enough that you can just sign any of the many UFA backups.

EDIT: I shouldn't say it's impossible for Tampa to trade Garon away. But the combination of Tampa needing to find a similar guy to replace him and the Kings not really valuing him makes it dumb to include him in realistic trade proposals.

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Lebrun said the Kings will be overwhelmed with interest from TB and hinted they could name their price.
I do think Yzerman will make a good offer for Bernier, but it's not a do or die situation. He has made it very clear that he has no problem going with a stopgap next year.

IMO the max Tampa will offer is the 19th and a 2nd. That's more than fair based off other similar trades.


Last edited by PoundCake: 06-11-2012 at 09:34 PM.
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06-11-2012, 11:02 PM
  #71
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He will fetch a solid prospect or a 1st plus.
Varlamov got a 1st round pick just this past year, and Bernier has absolutely nothing on Varlamov.

Unproven goalies do not have a lot of trade value. At least, they haven't been shown to have a lot of value in the recent past. Obviously, a team with a huge need could decide to up the ante.

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06-11-2012, 11:12 PM
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I think most people will be surprized at what Bernier actually gets. More teams seems to be interested then i frist thought I think a bidding war may happen. Imo bernier is the best option available. Toronto Chicago tampa maybe islanders edmonton ( yeah i know they say there happy but they should be trying to improve it ) and if there goalie does go to the khl winnipeg all looking. There will be a bidding war which the kings should make out good.

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06-11-2012, 11:22 PM
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Varlamov got a 1st round pick just this past year, and Bernier has absolutely nothing on Varlamov.

Unproven goalies do not have a lot of trade value. At least, they haven't been shown to have a lot of value in the recent past. Obviously, a team with a huge need could decide to up the ante.
Goalies little by little are gaining value. After a couple of MVP for goalies in the last couple of playoffs is going to do that, like it or not

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06-11-2012, 11:24 PM
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by no name View Post
Here is one of many blurbs about the value of Bernier over the past couple days. This is from ESPN Insider:


One potential Bernier trade

9:02AM ET


Jonathan Bernier | Kings

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Jonathan Bernier may be the best goalie available this offseason, but the Los Angeles Kings will be asking for a decent amount for the young goalie. The Edmonton Journal's Jim Matheson sees the Tampa Bay Lightning as a good landing spot -- and the Bolts can offer one of their first-rounders (No. 10 or 19) and backup goalie Mathieu Garon. However, with the goalie market shrinking and Cory Schneider off the market, a team like the Lightning -- who likely want a young, elite goalie -- don't have many options. So the Kings may be able to squeeze a bit more out of this deal.


Lebrun said the Kings will be overwhelmed with interest from TB and hinted they could name their price.
ESPN is awesome with hockey insight, and Bernier is totally an elite goaltender.

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06-11-2012, 11:36 PM
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L.A. Lariviere ‏@L_A_theRiver#Kings Bernier had asked for a trade in régular season, says he's happy to've stayed on board for Cup quest #SCFinals #NHL

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