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Glen Sather looking at free agency - "We don't trade kids"

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Old
06-11-2012, 08:04 PM
  #501
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Originally Posted by rangerfan_79 View Post
Anything more then a few lines and they are usually trying to sell something that is not true. I skip right over the long winded.
Go kings!
And I thought I was the only one who skips the long posts. lol brevity is golden.

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06-11-2012, 08:31 PM
  #502
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Nash is not going to dawn a rangers uniform. It just isn't going to happen. His contract is awful. It would put us in cap hell trying to re-sign our youth even with trading dubinsky's salary. I really don't think Nash is worth that much. I understand he is in cbj where he has not had any support really. But this is the salary cap era. You have to make decisions based on what is not just best for the team but best for the team in accordance with cap management. Bringing in Nash could mean losing a guy like del zotto, mcdonagh, stepan, etc., when their contracts are up. The rangers management did not spend all this time drafting and developing these kids* to lose them when they are still kids* because they can't afford to re-sign him with Nash's salary. It's sheer stupidity.

And people can say well gaborik's contract is going to come off the books..but the reality is we're sitting here wanting more offense with gaborik as our lone sniper, so when he leaves because we could not re-sign him or add someone to replace him then we are right back where we were with Nash as our lone sniper. And again people can say well Nash makes us a cup contender tomorrow, for the 2013 season. But WHAT IF we don't win the cup, what if we don't win it in 2014 either. This would be an "all-in" type of move. And I know there are some people who are ok with that. I personally am uncomfortable with it. Because you are not just mortgaging your farm system in the trade alone with Scott Howson's asinine asking price, you are mortgaging a del zotto, or a stepan, or a mcdonagh, etc to go along with the original trade. People can talk about how we have a deep prospect pool (or maybe they don't say that; i really think we have a lot of great potential) but even so i am not ready to deplete the system. RB says it perfectly, scott howson wants the rangers to make a trade that would make them essentially the columbus blue jackets after it's all said and done.

Even if you sign Schultz, you can't afford to give them del zotto, a 1st round pick, erixon, miller, to go along with Dubinsky. Because that is the type of deal they are looking for. I said it either in this thread or the other one, people forget about the word chemistry. Del Zotto is well liked in that lockerroom. He is buddies with Boyle and Prust. Those two are integral parts to the teams success. The whole team is a tight knit group. You want to dismantle a team that was two wins away from a stanley cup final appearance. For the people advocating trading for Nash, that is what you are doing.

I agree with Torts. The organization needs to stay the course. Don't stray because you didn't win the cup. Try for Parise, try for radulov, and like I said in this thread or the other one, even sign semin as much as I don't want him. Those three cost you no assets or essentially a later draft for radulov if he were to sign. Nash is a nice player, but if he comes here and he doesn't perform he will be eaten alive worse than drury and gomez. Because drury and gomez were during a different era. Those contracts didn't make us lose any of our outstanding youth because we didn't have any then. We had staal. Girardi was still a bit of an unknown as he got experience and was also undrafted. Anisimov still raw, still developing now. Nash's contract would kill us big time if the team doesn't win the stanley cup. I know people will refer to some of the moves Neil Smith made prior to the 94 cup. But again this is the salary cap era. Guys like Brian Burke will offer sheet your players. Especially if we end up with richards AND schultz choosing the rangers over the beloved toronto. The team is not that far off. You don't need to do something drastic. That is why sather did not make a move at the trade deadline. He understands this. He has a great group of minds among him with guys like Clarke and Gorton. Kreider is going to get better and better. Hagelin will get better. Fast, Miller, etc will be here in the next couple years. Make the smart moves, not the desperate ones. You have an Islander fan posting in the schultz thread that he is jealous of our young defense especially if we end up with schultz.
Random thoughts on Nash and such.....

1)If the cap is the issue Gab's deal will be off the board soon.

2)If Nash is the lone sniper 2 yrs from now then all the Rangers youth proved to be a bust.

3)Sather couldn't make much of a move at the deadline with a first place team. Any early loss in the playoffs would have left him open to a second guess. Too much was at risk. The loss...exploited the teams weakness.

4)in two years we'll be watching a 33 yr old Henrik? Does age matter?

5)If Nash is not worth that much to the other GM's then CBJ will be left with two options:
A)keep him
B)make the best deal they can which might not even be as high as currently speculated. Whatever the deal, there will always be those fans that say Nash is too expensive.

6)Is a 27 yr old player too old to trade for?


Last edited by ltrangerfan: 06-11-2012 at 08:41 PM.
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06-11-2012, 08:31 PM
  #503
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look at the numbers Nash put up for the BJ's . The last two years it came to light they werent going to get better and hes dragging . It would happen to anyone . You put him on a Big STAGE like MSG . With this team he will go HAM on every team .

1. Canadian who said he was AMERICAN .... HAHAH I was thinking of Parise and forgot to fix it cause i started to watch game 6 ... Canada is like USA 2.0
2 Big guy can skate
3 can score
4 Our powerplay with him around the net . easy extra 10-20 goals
5 Gabby on IR till Dec- Jan thats half the year clear of cap right there .

I say if we can Package something around Duby AA 2 prospects and a 1st you JUMP at it LIKE A MILLION BUCKS IN FRONT OF YOU

bEST OF ALL he wants to be a ranger not for the $$ cause he can go to IOWA and still make it HE WANTS TO BE A RANGER


Last edited by we want the cup 94: 06-11-2012 at 10:22 PM.
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06-11-2012, 08:42 PM
  #504
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Originally Posted by we want the cup 94 View Post
look at the numbers Nash put up for the BJ's . The last two years it came to light they werent going to get better and hes dragging . It would happen to anyone . You put him on a Big STAGE like MSG . With this team he will go HAM on every team .

1. American
2 Big guy can skate
3 can score
4 Our powerplay with him around the net . easy extra 10-20 goals
5 Gabby on IR till Dec- Jan thats half the year clear of cap right there .

I say if we can Package something around Duby AA 2 prospects and a 1st you JUMP at it LIKE A MILLION BUCKS IN FRONT OF YOU

bEST OF ALL he wants to be a ranger not for the $$ cause he can go to IOWA and still make it HE WANTS TO BE A RANGER
Nash is Canadien.

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06-11-2012, 08:46 PM
  #505
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Originally Posted by we want the cup 94 View Post
look at the numbers Nash put up for the BJ's . The last two years it came to light they werent going to get better and hes dragging . It would happen to anyone . You put him on a Big STAGE like MSG . With this team he will go HAM on every team .

1. American
2 Big guy can skate
3 can score
4 Our powerplay with him around the net . easy extra 10-20 goals
5 Gabby on IR till Dec- Jan thats half the year clear of cap right there .

I say if we can Package something around Duby AA 2 prospects and a 1st you JUMP at it LIKE A MILLION BUCKS IN FRONT OF YOU

bEST OF ALL he wants to be a ranger not for the $$ cause he can go to IOWA and still make it HE WANTS TO BE A RANGER
where in god's name did you see that Nash said he wants to be a Ranger

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06-11-2012, 08:53 PM
  #506
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Originally Posted by ThatCrazyRangerFan View Post
where in god's name did you see that Nash said he wants to be a Ranger
Well it was quite known during the trade deadline that he would agree to waive his ntc to come to the rangers.

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06-11-2012, 09:37 PM
  #507
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Originally Posted by we want the cup 94 View Post
look at the numbers Nash put up for the BJ's . The last two years it came to light they werent going to get better and hes dragging . It would happen to anyone . You put him on a Big STAGE like MSG . With this team he will go HAM on every team .

1. American
2 Big guy can skate
3 can score
4 Our powerplay with him around the net . easy extra 10-20 goals
5 Gabby on IR till Dec- Jan thats half the year clear of cap right there .

I say if we can Package something around Duby AA 2 prospects and a 1st you JUMP at it LIKE A MILLION BUCKS IN FRONT OF YOU

bEST OF ALL he wants to be a ranger not for the $$ cause he can go to IOWA and still make it HE WANTS TO BE A RANGER
Holy crap, when did the US annex Brampton, Ontario?



He's Canadian lol.

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06-11-2012, 10:02 PM
  #508
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Parise is on the phone with Sather in the dressing room "so what are you offering?"

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06-11-2012, 10:04 PM
  #509
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Originally Posted by Lion Hound View Post
Nash is Canadien.
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Originally Posted by GaBorat View Post
Holy crap, when did the US annex Brampton, Ontario?



He's Canadian lol.

He's from the continent of North AMERICA. So it makes him American.




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06-11-2012, 10:23 PM
  #510
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Originally Posted by Stugots View Post
Parise is on the phone with Sather in the dressing room "so what are you offering?"
Truthfully i want him but him being a Devil crossing the HUdson scares me ... it never worked out before ... I cant take a Gomer 2.0

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06-11-2012, 10:24 PM
  #511
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I hate to break it to you guys, but generally speaking, players stats don't increase when they go to a new market. Usually, they stay almost exactly the same. Nash's numbers aren't going to get better here. Could we use those numbers? Well, sure. But I don't think it's worth the assets or the Cap hit.

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06-11-2012, 10:24 PM
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Parise is on the phone with Sather in the dressing room "so what are you offering?"
And the Rangers get slapped with major punishment for tampering. Sure.

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06-11-2012, 10:27 PM
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Originally Posted by we want the cup 94 View Post
5 Gabby on IR till Dec- Jan thats half the year clear of cap right there .
The problem with the Cap isn't about this coming season. We can clearly afford him. It's about the 2013 and 2014 offseasons and all the guys that need to be resigned (Anisimov, Stepan, Hagelin, McDonagh, Sauer, Callahan, Boyle, Kreider, Girardi, Lundqvist)

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06-11-2012, 10:33 PM
  #514
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The problem with the Cap isn't about this coming season. We can clearly afford him. It's about the 2013 and 2014 offseasons and all the guys that need to be resigned (Anisimov, Stepan, Hagelin, McDonagh, Sauer, Callahan, Boyle, Kreider, Girardi, Lundqvist)

AA Would be gone . Step 3 mill Hags 2 mill McD 5 mill Sauer might be done .. i really hope not ... Cally isnt worth much more then what he is getting now .. Boyle can walk
Kreider 2+ Girardi might be the odd man out we have alot coming up Hank will be around 6-7 MILL . gABBY WILL BE GONE by then

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06-11-2012, 10:37 PM
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AA Would be gone . Step 3 mill Hags 2 mill McD 5 mill Sauer might be done .. i really hope not ... Cally isnt worth much more then what he is getting now .. Boyle can walk
Kreider 2+ Girardi might be the odd man out we have alot coming up Hank will be around 6-7 MILL . gABBY WILL BE GONE by then
You can't say Boyle can just walk, because you have to replace him on the roster. Anisimov too. Cally is certainly worth more on the open market than he's getting now (he will be a UFA at the end of this contract, as opposed to the RFA status when he signed). 30 goal scorer, Captain, plays in all situations? That's a $6m player. The whole point in adding Nash is that you're adding him to a roster WITH Gaborik, so that's another player you're going to have to replace.

Girardi is the odd man out? Letting Girardi go as a Cap casualty would be an awful way to go given the philosophy this team is built around.

But by all means, let's change everything up.

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06-11-2012, 10:44 PM
  #516
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CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Rick Nash ($7.800m) / Brad Richards ($6.667m) / Alexander Radulov ($3.200m)
Carl Hagelin ($0.875m) / Derek Stepan ($0.875m) / Marian Gaborik ($7.500m)
Ryan Callahan ($4.275m) / Chris Kreider ($1.325m) / Ruslan Fedotenko ($1.400m)
Mike Rupp ($1.500m) / Brian Boyle ($1.700m) / Brandon Prust ($1.500m)
DEFENSEMEN
Marc Staal ($3.975m) / Dan Girardi ($3.325m)
Ryan McDonagh ($1.300m) / Michael Del Zotto ($2.000m)
Anton Stralman ($0.945m) / Stu Bickel ($0.600m)
Tim Erixon ($1.750m) / Dylan McIlrath ($1.295m)
GOALTENDERS
Henrik Lundqvist ($6.875m)
Martin Biron ($0.875m)
BUYOUTS
Chris Drury ($1.667m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $70,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $63,223,334; BONUSES: $2,350,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $7,076,666

with plenty left to tweak a little

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06-11-2012, 10:48 PM
  #517
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The cap will not be $70.3M when hockey is played again. The league will push hard for a 50/50 split. That brings the cap to about $64M if they use the same formula.

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06-11-2012, 10:52 PM
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You can't say Boyle can just walk, because you have to replace him on the roster. Anisimov too. Cally is certainly worth more on the open market than he's getting now (he will be a UFA at the end of this contract, as opposed to the RFA status when he signed). 30 goal scorer, Captain, plays in all situations? That's a $6m player. The whole point in adding Nash is that you're adding him to a roster WITH Gaborik, so that's another player you're going to have to replace.

Girardi is the odd man out? Letting Girardi go as a Cap casualty would be an awful way to go given the philosophy this team is built around.

But by all means, let's change everything up.
someone will have to be the odd man out .. staal girardi mcd .. we cant have over 18 mill on 3 players on D . As for Cally getting 6 mill .. i hope you are joking .. If he was offered 6 mill have fun heres a plane ticket byeee .... Here is the thing i love this team but at some point things need to change . PLayers need to go . New players will come in . Boyle had one good year he is very much replaceable . Same with AA ... Some times things just have to be

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06-11-2012, 10:53 PM
  #519
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The cap will not be $70.3M when hockey is played again. The league will push hard for a 50/50 split. That brings the cap to about $64M if they use the same formula.

It wont go 50/50 maybe 53/47 no way the players give up that much .

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06-11-2012, 10:55 PM
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It wont go 50/50 maybe 53/47 no way the players give up that much .
Then they won't be playing.

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06-11-2012, 11:02 PM
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someone will have to be the odd man out .. staal girardi mcd .. we cant have over 18 mill on 3 players on D . As for Cally getting 6 mill .. i hope you are joking .. If he was offered 6 mill have fun heres a plane ticket byeee .... Here is the thing i love this team but at some point things need to change . PLayers need to go . New players will come in . Boyle had one good year he is very much replaceable . Same with AA ... Some times things just have to be
I think you're taking Tawnos' point too much to heart on the figure. He was just making a point. By the same token I hope you're joking if you think that McDonagh, Girardi, and Staal would combine for $18 million. That would average out to $6 million/year. Ryan Suter is going to get that on the open market this offseason which happens to be a very weak year for free agents. Suter is better than all of those guys imo. It;s not by a lot but he is still better. Those 3 are solid defensemen but they still have to provide much more offense to be a $6 million/year defenseman.

Yes players will have to go but not many. The next couple years you really don't have to worry about that much if you manage the cap correctly. Adding a contract like Nash will make that time come a lot sooner. And you won't have as many prospects to choose from to replace the players you are forced to let go due to the cap because you traded chips in the Nash deal.


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06-11-2012, 11:04 PM
  #522
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someone will have to be the odd man out .. staal girardi mcd .. we cant have over 18 mill on 3 players on D . As for Cally getting 6 mill .. i hope you are joking .. If he was offered 6 mill have fun heres a plane ticket byeee .... Here is the thing i love this team but at some point things need to change . PLayers need to go . New players will come in . Boyle had one good year he is very much replaceable . Same with AA ... Some times things just have to be
I'm not saying that Boyle and Anisimov aren't replaceable, but I am saying that you HAVE to replace them if they're gone.

Mike Richards was worth $5.75m as an RFA (the Flyers bought a bunch of his UFA years in the deal), you really don't think Callahan is worth the same as a UFA? Keep dreaming. I would hope he signs a nice hometown discount deal to stay, but ya never know. On a short term deal as a UFA, Cally gets $6m.

Unless he legitimately is a Norris candidate before his contract expires, McDonagh isn't getting a $5m deal as an RFA. Girardi will get a $5m deal as a UFA. Having $15m tied up in essentially 3 first pair defensemen is worth the price tag.

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06-11-2012, 11:12 PM
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The cap will not be $70.3M when hockey is played again. The league will push hard for a 50/50 split. That brings the cap to about $64M if they use the same formula.
that's garbage

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06-11-2012, 11:16 PM
  #524
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This is an excellent well thought out post. I agree with alot of it (not all), but how do you advocate going after Parise when he will cost more than Nash in terms of $$? It's hard to say Nash's cap hit will kill us long term and in the next breath advocate going for a guy who will have larger cap hit for more years.
I understand we would not have to give up assets but you seem to be anti Nash based on cap implications?
But that's just it, Parise does NOT COST ASSETS. Parise will not make as much as Nash. He just won't he will get a nice paycheck but will not get as much because GM's know the looming cba talks will soon pick up. So even if Parise is all that's really out there GM's are still going to be cautious in what contract they offer Parise. And forget what cap space teams might have, teams of course set their own budgets every year because it is still a business.

Trading for Nash will cost us more likely than not, Dubinsky, Del Zotto, top prospect, and a 1st round pick. Those are two huge parts of this team's chemistry and make up going the other way. Dubinsky fits the mold to a tee of what this team is about. I was absolutely not happy with his production this year, but his blue collar play is what Torts looks for and wants out of this team. It is a respected attribute on this club when teammates play like that. Del Zotto is great friends with Boyle and Prust. Forget the fact he is 21 years old and still has a lot of potential left to reach. He will get better, I guarantee it. This was just another year in the learning experience, playing in a long grueling playoff run.

I like Nash as a player but he just simply is not worth it. You can't promise anything with him, that he will be able to produce here in NY. He hasn't been doing enough in CBJ these past couple years production wise. And yeah it is probably because of the supporting cast. But for what he makes it is not enough, and if he comes here and that's all he can offer then it is a bad trade. You lose key players and don't improve much.

Dubinsky: 10-24-34
Del Zotto: 10-31-41

Nash: 30-29-59

Dubi and MDZ totaled 75 points. Dubinsky is better than that, on a normal year he puts up around 50 points. So lets say around 90 points in total. Now you can make the argument that Nash puts up at least 70 points with the rangers. It's a loss. Nash has never been a big assist guy. He puts up the goals. But usually averaging around 35 goals in his career. It is a losing trade for the rangers. We don't get better. Plus you're giving them likely a JT Miller, who imo, is a season away. And a 1st round pick. All the while absorbing a cap killing contract.

Sorry just can't justify trading for him.

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06-11-2012, 11:20 PM
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that's garbage
What's garbage?

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