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JVR Surgery Discussion (update post #356: No hip surgery for JVR, Holmgren confirms)

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Old
06-11-2012, 11:49 PM
  #251
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Holmgren needs to start adding 'lol' to his statements, to deflate the seriousness of the accusation by Eskin.

"He has an infection in his foot. That is why it is being delayed. lol. r u dumb?"

Hard to take the issue seriously after that.

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06-11-2012, 11:59 PM
  #252
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Originally Posted by BrindamoursNose View Post
Popping up in reporters' rumors, not Paul Holmgren's mouth.

I can't comment on the rest because you seem to be trying to tell me what the organization wants from its POV when you're (from what I understand) not in the org/have no more info about it other than an educated guess. I disagree and I think that cash is more wisely spent on defense (both defensive forwards and defensive defensemen).
No I don't work for the organization. I read what beat writers are writing. They speak to the organization and sources within. It's not far-fetched to conclude that the organization would like a scoring winger with their young, elite, playmaking center.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rainbow Express View Post
anybody but Rick Nash.

Leave it to this insane organization to acquire an 8 million dollar 65 point player.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
The team doesn't need size at the forward position. Other than Giroux, Briere and possibly Wellwood, there's more than enough size up front. They need a good run of health. Plain and simple.
We were about the same size in 11-12 as we were in 10-11. Our "big" adds were Jagr, Voracek, Rinaldo, Read, Schenn, Couturier, Talbot and Simmonds. We lost Carter, Richards, Versteeg, Powe, Carcillo, and Betts kinda. We moved big guys who don't use their size for big guys who usually don't use their size, and little guys who use their size for little guys who usually use their size. Some more size wouldn't hurt.

Quote:
Originally Posted by usahockey22flyers View Post
+1000

Columbus can continue to suffer with his 7.8M contract. Quite laughable how people say he would come here and be unstoppable, who knows if he even plays a long side Giroux?
....who else would he play alongside with?

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Originally Posted by tuckrr View Post
I actually was assuming that deal would happen with Grigorenko still on the board.

#20 pick + #30 pick + JvR + Read
for
Grigorenko + Schenn (maybe a 2nd in 2013)
That's turrible

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06-12-2012, 01:08 AM
  #253
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Originally Posted by sobrien View Post
Face palming an undeniable FACT?

It is not up for debate.

Maybe you should pullout the ol' abacus and crunch Rick Nash's numbers.

EDIT:

man, I was being generous calling him a "glorified 65 point player at 8 million per"... Nash, is in fact, a glorified 60 point player at 8 million per. 547 pts / 9 seasons = roughly 60 points per.

Rick Nash is the greatest hockey player that never was. Wins a Rocket Richard at 19 and people still think he's 19 with all this potential 10 years later. Rick Nash is who Rick Nash is gonna be: a GROSSLY overpaid 60 pt player who can score some goals and is a nothing more than a solid overall player. I'd take him at 5.5 million. 8 million? Insanity.


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06-12-2012, 02:00 AM
  #254
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rainbow Express View Post
Face palming an undeniable FACT?

It is not up for debate.

Maybe you should pullout the ol' abacus and crunch Rick Nash's numbers.

EDIT:

man, I was being generous calling him a "glorified 65 point player at 8 million per"... Nash, is in fact, a glorified 60 point player at 8 million per. 547 pts / 9 seasons = roughly 60 points per.

Rick Nash is the greatest hockey player that never was. Wins a Rocket Richard at 19 and people still think he's 19 with all this potential 10 years later. Rick Nash is who Rick Nash is gonna be: a GROSSLY overpaid 60 pt player who can score some goals and is a nothing more than a solid overall player. I'd take him at 5.5 million. 8 million? Insanity.
I've already denied it, and proven why it should be denied. But people like yourself see his cap-hit, and his production, and deduce "FAILURE! DO NOT WANT!" without looking at context. Stats without context are so much fun.

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06-12-2012, 02:21 AM
  #255
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rainbow Express View Post
Face palming an undeniable FACT?

It is not up for debate.

Maybe you should pullout the ol' abacus and crunch Rick Nash's numbers.

EDIT:

man, I was being generous calling him a "glorified 65 point player at 8 million per"... Nash, is in fact, a glorified 60 point player at 8 million per. 547 pts / 9 seasons = roughly 60 points per.

Rick Nash is the greatest hockey player that never was. Wins a Rocket Richard at 19 and people still think he's 19 with all this potential 10 years later. Rick Nash is who Rick Nash is gonna be: a GROSSLY overpaid 60 pt player who can score some goals and is a nothing more than a solid overall player. I'd take him at 5.5 million. 8 million? Insanity.
Rick Nash would be a 40-goal scorer, minimum, with Giroux as his center (would you take him at his current cap hit for that production?). But please, by all means, continue to "analyze" his stats without contextualizing them or even giving slightest consideration to the cluster**** of a situation in Columbus and how that could've possibly had a negative effect on his play.

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06-12-2012, 02:34 AM
  #256
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Originally Posted by sobrien View Post
I've already denied it, and proven why it should be denied. But people like yourself see his cap-hit, and his production, and deduce "FAILURE! DO NOT WANT!" without looking at context. Stats without context are so much fun.
There is no context for these numbers to be taken out of. This isn't a small sample size or statistical manipulation.. This is Rick Nash. I know he has size, he uses it occasionally, and he is a very solid overall player.. but...

Crutch #1: "He hasn't played with anybody in 9 whole years!" Well... should anyone be paying 8 million to a guy that needs people around him to make him awesome instead of being the guy who is so good that he raises the game of those around him? Nash doesn't do that, otherwise Nash fans would never have to use this #1 crutch. Let's look at Ilya Kovalchuk, shall we. Ilya put up 50 and 90 with a line of Todd White and a young Bryan Little who both had career years (and before the anyone spews the ignorance of "he played with Hossa!" WRONG, only on select PP's did he share ice with Hossa this isn't EA NHL). What would Rick Nash have done with White/Little. History and Rick Nash tell me something like 30 g 60 pts.

You don't pay 8 million for a really nice complementary player (not saying that's all Nash is, he is a nice top line player on any team but he is not "the guy" and you don't pay 8 million to people who aren't that franchise piece). If you think Rick Nash is a top NHL talent and is your franchise piece worth 8 million per... well then you end up like the Columbus Blue Jackets who have are pretty much been a complete dumpster fire since day 1.

Crutch #2:
"Well... look at his Team Canada numbers!" Holy ****ing Moses... a guy performs well when he's playing with the best talent in the world on his line? What a concept! Again, he is not the guy who raises the game of those around him, just someone who needs and relies.

Crutch #3: "He won the Rocket at 19! imagine what he'll do ______". That was in 2004, folks.. and he won the Rocket in a 3 way tie with by far the lowest goal total for any year in the awards history. What has Rick Nash done for us lately? Demanded a trade? Put up 30 goals (he does have a nose for the net and is a lock for 30, so I digress)? Put up 65 points? Rick Nash is not that 19 year old kid anymore. He is a guy in the prime of his career and his putting up wildly underwhelming totals in relation to his salary and his "supposed" ability.

Crutch #4: "but he plays in the same division with The Wings and Sutter and Weber!". It's the NHL. Top line players face top pairing defensemen every night. Doesn't stop the best in the world from doing what they're supposed to do: make things happen and be the difference. Gamers find a way. Rick Nash never finds a way. The only thing Rick Nash is trying to find is a plane out of Columbus. Rick Nash is not a difference maker and at no point during his illustrious 9 year NHL career has he been a game changer.

Crutch #5: "but 8 million isn't all that much money considering the cap going up every year!" No, 8 million is still a shit load of cash and, funny enough, every year the cap goes up and huge dollar contracts are handed out... but what constant remains the same? Oh, Rick Nash still being in the top 5 of total hit every year, that's what. If the cap is going up and supposedly bigger cap hits being handed out, then why is Nash still Top 5 highest Cap Hit? Because 8 million dollars is a **** load of money.

Crutch #6: and lastly... you cannot separate the player from the cap hit or his term. They are one in the same and it is always relevant in trade talks.

In summation, Rick Nash is a glorified 60 point player who is getting paid 8 million dollars. Could Rick Nash be a 70 or even 80 point player with someone like Giroux? Maybe, but I hope we never have to find out because that is 8 million that should go for our defense (not to mention signing a guy who's name rhymes with Claude Giroux to a fat deal). You don't pay 8 million for a "Could put up 40 goals with Giroux" it needs to be a sure thing. Here is what's for sure for Rick Nash: 30 goals, 60 points, 8 million per. Size. Very solid overall game. That's it, that's all, baby goes to sleep. You and Amateur Hour can play the what if game all you want, but what I am bringing to the table is something better than what if's. There are dozens of guys who could put up 40 with Giroux that DON'T cost 8 million (and I have not even mentioned the personnel and draft assets it will cost to get him, when you factor those in + 8 million then wow it is really freaking bad.. and something so dumb that our organization will surely do it). I am not gonna suggest names because then I would be guilty of throwing out ghost projections like Amateur Hour for what we *think* may happen.

So concludes Rick Nash: The Best Player That Never Was.

For 5 years now I have been saying I will eat a big piece of humble pie if Nash can simply break 80 points or score 45 goals and I will quit ragging on him... needless to say I am famished from being deprived from my serving of pie.


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Old
06-12-2012, 03:28 AM
  #257
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To be fair, I wouldn't be surprised if Giroux was about a 65 point player on the Jackets, and I love Giroux's game.

Nash is great, but he's not worth much to a team in the Flyer's situation. Let the Leafs deal for Nash, they have more need for, and could make great use of his abilities. Unless it's a three way deal, I don't see the dealing with Columbus around him.

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06-12-2012, 03:35 AM
  #258
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rainbow Express View Post
There is no context for these numbers to be taken out of. This isn't a small sample size or statistical manipulation.. This is Rick Nash. I know he has size, he uses it occasionally, and he is a very solid overall player.. but...

Crutch #1: "He hasn't played with anybody in 9 whole years!" Well... should anyone be paying 8 million to a guy that needs people around him to make him awesome instead of being the guy who is so good that he raises the game of those around him? Nash doesn't do that, otherwise Nash fans would never have to use this #1 crutch. Let's look at Ilya Kovalchuk, shall we. Ilya put up 50 and 90 with a line of Todd White and a young Bryan Little who both had career years (and before the anyone spews the ignorance of "he played with Hossa!" WRONG, only on select PP's did he share ice with Hossa this isn't EA NHL). What would Rick Nash have done with White/Little. History and Rick Nash tell me something like 30 g 60 pts.

You don't pay 8 million for a really nice complementary player (not saying that's all Nash is, he is a nice top line player on any team but he is not "the guy" and you don't pay 8 million to people who aren't that franchise piece). If you think Rick Nash is a top NHL talent and is your franchise piece worth 8 million per... well then you end up like the Columbus Blue Jackets who have are pretty much been a complete dumpster fire since day 1.

Crutch #2:
"Well... look at his Team Canada numbers!" Holy ****ing Moses... a guy performs well when he's playing with the best talent in the world on his line? What a concept! Again, he is not the guy who raises the game of those around him, just someone who needs and relies.

Crutch #3: "He won the Rocket at 19! imagine what he'll do ______". That was in 2004, folks.. and he won the Rocket in a 3 way tie with by far the lowest goal total for any year in the awards history. What has Rick Nash done for us lately? Demanded a trade? Put up 30 goals (he does have a nose for the net and is a lock for 30, so I digress)? Put up 65 points? Rick Nash is not that 19 year old kid anymore. He is a guy in the prime of his career and his putting up wildly underwhelming totals in relation to his salary and his "supposed" ability.

Crutch #4: "but he plays in the same division with The Wings and Sutter and Weber!". It's the NHL. Top line players face top pairing defensemen every night. Doesn't stop the best in the world from doing what they're supposed to do: make things happen and be the difference. Gamers find a way. Rick Nash never finds a way. The only thing Rick Nash is trying to find is a plane out of Columbus. Rick Nash is not a difference maker and at no point during his illustrious 9 year NHL career has he been a game changer.

Crutch #5: "but 8 million isn't all that much money considering the cap going up every year!" No, 8 million is still a shit load of cash and, funny enough, every year the cap goes up and huge dollar contracts are handed out... but what constant remains the same? Oh, Rick Nash still being in the top 5 of total hit every year, that's what. If the cap is going up and supposedly bigger cap hits being handed out, then why is Nash still Top 5 highest Cap Hit? Because 8 million dollars is a **** load of money.

Crutch #6: and lastly... you cannot separate the player from the cap hit or his term. They are one in the same and it is always relevant in trade talks.

In summation, Rick Nash is a glorified 60 point player who is getting paid 8 million dollars. Could Rick Nash be a 70 or even 80 point player with someone like Giroux? Maybe, but I hope we never have to find out because that is 8 million that should go for our defense (not to mention signing a guy who's name rhymes with Claude Giroux to a fat deal). You don't pay 8 million for a "Could put up 40 goals with Giroux" it needs to be a sure thing. Here is what's for sure for Rick Nash: 30 goals, 60 points, 8 million per. Size. Very solid overall game. That's it, that's all, baby goes to sleep. You and Amateur Hour can play the what if game all you want, but what I am bringing to the table is something better than what if's. There are dozens of guys who could put up 40 with Giroux that DON'T cost 8 million (and I have not even mentioned the personnel and draft assets it will cost to get him, when you factor those in + 8 million then wow it is really freaking bad.. and something so dumb that our organization will surely do it). I am not gonna suggest names because then I would be guilty of throwing out ghost projections like Amateur Hour for what we *think* may happen.

So concludes Rick Nash: The Best Player That Never Was.

For 5 years now I have been saying I will eat a big piece of humble pie if Nash can simply break 80 points or score 45 goals and I will quit ragging on him... needless to say I am famished from being deprived from my serving of pie.
Sooo you agree with Crutch 2 and further prove my point? Put him with someone who can feed him the puck and he'll succeed? Glad you finally saw things the right way, too bad you had to go through an essay with more "meh" points.

He's a Power Forward/Sniper, he's not out there to make players around him vastly better. Kovalchuk didn't/doesn't, Heatley doesn't, Gaborik doesn't. Stamkos doesn't. Their linemates leech points off their successes. I've already said he isn't at Kovalchuk's skill level, though that itself is taking a hit in NJ's system. I also already said that I know he's overpaid, and there are dozens and dozens of players around the NHL that are overpaid...quite a few on our own team. It's just something more for us to ***** about, because there's nothing else we can do.

We have a couple options with the cap rising drastically (and making a $7.8m/y cap hit a tad bit more reasonable. I bet Suter gets $7.5 and Parise gets $7+, Weber gets near $8m/y) --- We can sit here hoping Suter or Parise sign with us for a boatload of money. If we get one, great! Then we're done for the offseason. We should be able to sign a cheap FA back up goalie, and possibly a 4th line center. ORRRRRR we can make a trade for Nash, moving more cap space than he eats up (JvR + Mez + Bob) which fills the top line winger need! And then we have more cap space for Suter/Schultz! MORE MONEY!

Since you're in a crutch kick...explain to me Scott Hartnell's 2011-12 career season...at 29-30 years old. Think it had anything to do with the kid he was playing next to? Imagine Nash there too then.

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06-12-2012, 05:13 AM
  #259
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Your post is so long rainbow its actually messing with my phone and I can't reach hey end of it when I try to quote it. Unfortunately like the other guy said I didn't even need to read past "crutch number 2" to see that you just lost your own arguement. You completely discredited yourself when you tried to pawn that off as an arguement for you when it clearly supports anyone's reason for wanting him here.

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06-12-2012, 05:34 AM
  #260
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
Nash could certainly have another statistical peak year, but it's not realistic to expect him to evolve into an 80-100 point player on a consistent basis at this stage of his career. Nash is already showing signs of a decline.

Nash doesn't help the team achieve the most on ice efficiency. We're already the 2nd best offense in the league. There's not much room for improvement in that area of the game.

As you mention the biggest problem is the cap. JVR could be a 30+ goal scorer for $3.6M less than what Nash makes. Nash hurts our cap efficiency.

Agree that wanting out is different, but I also provided an example where a team flat out admitted to moving a player because of the fans' attitude towards him. I don't think this rumor deal has anything to do with the fans, but if he becomes another whipping boy it could have an impact on their decision making in the future.

I didn't comment on it because I don't follow soccer. Not to be rude, but that anecdote means nothing to me.

I have difficulty seeing fan criticism playing into possible Flyers trade outcomes at any point in the future, short of a torch-bearing mob showing up at somebody's door.

99% of the time, I think the "fans ran him out of town" meme stems from a correlation/causation fallacy. When fans really get on a particular player it's usually because that player has been extremely disappointing, and disappointing players run a high risk of getting shipped out. This feeds into the false conclusion that the fans ran the player out of town.

As for Nash, point-scoring is not itself the attribute of the player. It's just a measure of points. Point-scoring can increase even as offensive ability stagnates or declines, due to a number of factors. I think it's possible for Nash's scoring rate to increase considerably without him "evolving" at all as a player.

http://www.backpicks.com/2010/12/23/...in-basketball/

edit: all of the examples in the above link can easily be related to hockey and hockey box score statistics


Last edited by Damaged Goods: 06-12-2012 at 05:43 AM.
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06-12-2012, 05:49 AM
  #261
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Absolutely, but when you put his signs of regression together with the fact that forwards in general tend to regress at that age what do you honestly believe is more likely? That he will stagnate/regress over the next 6 years or improve?
In the right environment, his stats could improve/stabilize even as his talent is on the decline. Look at Selanne or Elias for example.

Stats and talent can not always be conflated for one another.



edit: my last two comments go for this sentiment as well:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Rainbow Express View Post
anybody but Rick Nash.

Leave it to this insane organization to acquire an 8 million dollar 65 point player.
Even though I don't want Nash, the idea that "65 points" is somehow a sufficient proxy for Rick Nash's talent isn't right.


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06-12-2012, 07:51 AM
  #262
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Originally Posted by Damaged Goods View Post
In the right environment, his stats could improve/stabilize even as his talent is on the decline. Look at Selanne or Elias for example.

Stats and talent can not always be conflated for one another.



edit: my last two comments go for this sentiment as well:




Even though I don't want Nash, the idea that "65 points" is somehow a sufficient proxy for Rick Nash's talent isn't right.
This. You simply cannot take Nash's stats on columbus and claim that to be a representation of his talent. If you've watched him play, you know he's more talented than 65 points. And it's ridiculous to say that you shouldn't go after a player who would produce more with better linemates because it's an indication that he can't do it himself. That's a ridiculous notion. Many of the greatest wingers in history have had great centers who you could attribute much of their success to.

Not saying I want Nash, I would like him, but he may be a luxury we can't afford If we intend to upgrade the D. But to say Nash is merely a 65 point player in talent is nothing but ignorance.


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06-12-2012, 08:00 AM
  #263
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Super amusing to watch a few people in here simply deduce that Nash is a 60 point guy. Ever watch him in the Olympics? That should give you a gauge as to why he's such a monster. Also how many 60 point guys consistently crack the team Canada roster? And he'll be on the next one in Russia too.

All that said, I really hope the rumors of both Hartnell and Couturier going back the other way are true.

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06-12-2012, 08:06 AM
  #264
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Nash isn't Hull or Jagr. He's exiting his prime, and he makes $8 mil.

It's pretty obvious he's not as good as the 2 bests wingers in recent history, but the point was : they are at their peak at that age. A 27-28 years old forward isn't old. Heck, Mike Richards is 27. He's still young. Now people are saying that Nash has been on the decline for 3-4 years? That would mean Giroux is close from declining, basically.

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06-12-2012, 08:16 AM
  #265
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Originally Posted by Rainbow Express View Post
Face palming an undeniable FACT?

It is not up for debate.

Maybe you should pullout the ol' abacus and crunch Rick Nash's numbers.

EDIT:

man, I was being generous calling him a "glorified 65 point player at 8 million per"... Nash, is in fact, a glorified 60 point player at 8 million per. 547 pts / 9 seasons = roughly 60 points per.

Rick Nash is the greatest hockey player that never was. Wins a Rocket Richard at 19 and people still think he's 19 with all this potential 10 years later. Rick Nash is who Rick Nash is gonna be: a GROSSLY overpaid 60 pt player who can score some goals and is a nothing more than a solid overall player. I'd take him at 5.5 million. 8 million? Insanity.
Yea, applying circumstantial statistics to a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT TEAM AND SITUATION is an exact science and is impossible to debate.

THAT is worthy.

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06-12-2012, 08:24 AM
  #266
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Originally Posted by YuioIklo View Post
It's pretty obvious he's not as good as the 2 bests wingers in recent history, but the point was : they are at their peak at that age. A 27-28 years old forward isn't old. Heck, Mike Richards is 27. He's still young. Now people are saying that Nash has been on the decline for 3-4 years? That would mean Giroux is close from declining, basically.
I don't think he's been declining for 3-4 years, but I think he will decline over the next 3-4 years. His contract brings him until he's 33 I think. I do think with him on Giroux's wing you're looking at a 40 goal 70+ point player. However, I don't think that's worth $8 million. Especially with Briere here, and Giroux who will be getting a similar contract soon.

I'm usually not a big fan of huge free agent signings as I think your paying for past production on a different team, rather than what that player is going to provide your team going forward. Nash would essentially be a big free agent signing, but at even a higher cost due to the pieces traded.

I understand that often times free agents/big trades work out in the first couple years because they do sometimes push teams over the top. However, it's usually adding something smaller to a position of need on an already very good team that gets them over the top.

If we had cap money to burn, and didn't have the problems with the D I'd be more for it. I think that $8 million can be better spent elsewhere. I also think Jvr can score 30 goals on Giroux's wing, and that we'd essentially be paying an extra $3.5 million for another 10ish goals.

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06-12-2012, 08:30 AM
  #267
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Quote:
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I don't think he's been declining for 3-4 years, but I think he will decline over the next 3-4 years. His contract brings him until he's 33 I think. I do think with him on Giroux's wing you're looking at a 40 goal 70+ point player. However, I don't think that's worth $8 million. Especially with Briere here, and Giroux who will be getting a similar contract soon.

I'm usually not a big fan of huge free agent signings as I think your paying for past production on a different team, rather than what that player is going to provide your team going forward. Nash would essentially be a big free agent signing, but at even a higher cost due to the pieces traded.

I understand that often times free agents/big trades work out in the first couple years because they do sometimes push teams over the top. However, it's usually adding something smaller to a position of need on an already very good team that gets them over the top.

If we had cap money to burn, and didn't have the problems with the D I'd be more for it. I think that $8 million can be better spent elsewhere. I also think Jvr can score 30 goals on Giroux's wing, and that we'd essentially be paying an extra $3.5 million for another 10ish goals.
I also have a concern with his salary, I'm not saying that we should acquire him. Just that I don't think he would be an underachiever like some may think. I'm pretty sure he could be a great fit on this team and won't decline that much until he's 33. Is it worth 8M? Not really imo.

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06-12-2012, 08:40 AM
  #268
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I got it!!!! The Flyers are going to trade for Nash, then turn around and package him to Nashville for Weber and Suter

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06-12-2012, 09:42 AM
  #269
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Howard Eskin ‏@howardeskin
Always have 2 clarify what I reported. Basis is tht Flyers JVR delaying having torn labrun surgery. That is "fact"! Flyers still int in Nash
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Howard Eskin ‏@howardeskin
Always reported flyers still interested in nash. Said it could hold up deal bcause it did last season w nash. Flyers want to trade JVR. Fact
Flyers fans, **** just got real.

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06-12-2012, 10:14 AM
  #270
Brostradamus
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Regardless of your opinion of Nash, I'm pretty sure we would all agree that his numbers are going to increase play with Giroux than whoever he was playing with in Columbus. $7.8 Mill is a steep cap hit but as long as Schenn or Couturier are not involved in the trade (CBS so wants a mulligan on Couturier) I could live with it. Bobrobsky would probably be in the deal and its not likely hes staying here past the deadline anyway with Bryz signed for almost the next decade, no loss there. JVR has been one of my favorites since we drafted him but I can deal with parting with a LW if it returns one who is better ATM. I think JVR will be moved this offseason regardless and I don't want it to be for that pile of **** in Toronto known as Luke Schenn. Sorry I'm not all for the cutesy story to have both brothers play on the same team and grow together, I think hes overrated and want no part of him.

The way I look at it is Suter is going to be coveted by nearly every team in the NHL who can afford him and Detroit just shed Lidstrom off from his retirement so that adds more teams to the mix. He is also probably going to get around 6.5 to 7 mil in a buyers market so that cap hit is similar to Nash's. Parise probably stays in Jersey IMO just the way I see it happening after they just went to the finals. If you can't drastically upgrade the defense by getting a Suter then cut your losses and add some cheap defensive depth and upgrade your scoring.

I'm not totally Team Nash right now but trying to justify a cap hit like that. The main thing about that cap that worries me is when Giroux and many more are FA's down the road. Brieres salary will free up space down the road and if there is an amnesty clause after the CBA so will Prongers now but unless he is scoring at least 70 points plus (which is very likely and possible with Claude) then it wont be worth it for the cap hit. It's a gamble but at this point decades removed from a cup I'm willing to try it.

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06-12-2012, 10:19 AM
  #271
Protest
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Originally Posted by JVR21 View Post
Flyers fans, **** just got real.
Are those stone cold locks? Those always worked out for him.

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06-12-2012, 11:02 AM
  #272
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Originally Posted by RedeyeRocketeer View Post
All that said, I really hope the rumors of both Hartnell and Couturier going back the other way are true.
WTF are you talking about?

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06-12-2012, 11:09 AM
  #273
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This Nash trade (if it happens) is going to have to be a wait and see deal. I know that everyone is going to freak out if the trade is made, regardless of who is going where. But Nash is the type of player that could easily lead the team in points next season. For most trades, but especially this one, you can't make your call either way until he steps on the ice. It absolutely could be a bad move. And it absolutely could be a great move. But people losing their **** over it one way or the other is stupid. Discuss it, argue against it, argue for it, whatever. But imploding before he steps on the ice is ridiculous.

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06-12-2012, 11:18 AM
  #274
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I love Rick Nash and I think that fans would love him in Orange and Black.

That said, I do not agree with the notion of acquiring a 7.8M cap hit player just because we can't get the defenseman we want. I would much rather us gear up for a serious run at Weber next season than just acquire a Rick Nash.

Just because you can't get exactly what you need doesn't mean you just pull the trigger on something else just because you have money to spend.

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06-12-2012, 11:24 AM
  #275
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Rick Nash is an absolute incredible hockey player, if he was a flyer every one of us would love him. Are we hockey fans or salary cap fans? I say lets get him

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