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Schultz talk pt. 2

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Old
06-11-2012, 05:22 PM
  #651
LEAFANFORLIFE23
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Originally Posted by jax00 View Post
Ducks get absolutely nothing...the most frustrating part.
find out where he'd lie to go and make a deal teams do it all the time

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06-11-2012, 05:34 PM
  #652
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Originally Posted by LEAFANFORLIFE23 View Post
find out where he'd lie to go and make a deal teams do it all the time
He's an UFA to be, and he's not going to tell us where he wants to go. Even for established stars, negotiating rights don't hold significant value.

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06-11-2012, 05:57 PM
  #653
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Originally Posted by Vipers31 View Post
He's an UFA to be, and he's not going to tell us where he wants to go. Even for established stars, negotiating rights don't hold significant value.
Yeah, it sounds like he's specifically aiming for free agency as opposed to a single team.

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06-11-2012, 08:30 PM
  #654
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Question.
I know that teams can only offer a max ELC with bonuses that come up to about 3 million..... But, are the specific benchmarks outlined as well or can the teams play with this

Ie Edm offers rookie max plus 1 million for playing 70 games and 1 million for 50 pts,
VAn offers rookie max plus 1 million for playing 10 games and 1 million for 10 pts?

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06-11-2012, 08:41 PM
  #655
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Originally Posted by Krazy View Post
Question.
I know that teams can only offer a max ELC with bonuses that come up to about 3 million..... But, are the specific benchmarks outlined as well or can the teams play with this

Ie Edm offers rookie max plus 1 million for playing 70 games and 1 million for 50 pts,
VAn offers rookie max plus 1 million for playing 10 games and 1 million for 10 pts?
I seem to recall a player for Philly needed to play all 82 games in order to get their bonus and the cap was immediatly fixed when they failed to reach it. At the same time I see players like Hall get the full thing. So I would figure that you are right... not 100% sure thou

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06-11-2012, 08:49 PM
  #656
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Originally Posted by Vipers31 View Post
He's an UFA to be, and he's not going to tell us where he wants to go. Even for established stars, negotiating rights don't hold significant value.
If he signs with the Leafs, I can see Burke making a separate deal with Murray that favors the Ducks, like swapping a 5th with a 7th. But if he goes to the Oilers or Canucks, no chance.

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06-11-2012, 08:58 PM
  #657
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no offense to all the leafs fans. but you think burke is going to get every good player available.... seriously not gonna happen. toronto maple leafs don't have the depth to trade for luongo, yakupov, galenchyuk, and schultz. if they did toronto would be losing a couple players, like lupul, gardiner, schenn.
Leafs can get Luongo and Shultz no problem. Both will cost little in a trade.

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06-11-2012, 09:12 PM
  #658
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Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
Leafs can get Luongo and Shultz no problem. Both will cost little in a trade.
Not likely to get Luongo for free boss.

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06-11-2012, 09:27 PM
  #659
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Does Anaheim still hold exclusive negotiating rights for Schulz or is he in a place where he is a free agent but simply cannot be signed before July 1st? If I remember correctly ... Wheeler had an agreement with Boston in mid June but officially signed on July 1st.

I just don't think there are exclusive rights that can be dealt to another team. As well given the black cloud of tampering I bet no team steps to the forefront to try and retain those rights.

If Anaheim was proactive they could ask the Schultz camp where he wants to go and try to recoup something but I bet this well has been pissed in too much by the rhetoric I hear from other players.

It is not a big stretch that he signs with a team that makes sense for him. Max Cap and a good opportunity to be successful. I doubt he goes to a team where he is fishing the puck out of his own net more often than not. He would be wise to go to a team that is established and that has an effective mentor for him to learn the pro game.

Selfishly, I hope he doesn't disappoint his parents... I know if my son had both the skillset and the choice and picked any other team than the Canucks... I'd kick him outa my house...lol

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06-11-2012, 11:43 PM
  #660
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LEAFANFORLIFE23 View Post
find out where he'd lie to go and make a deal teams do it all the time
Murray has been quoted saying Schultz and his "party" won't say anything except for recently saying he'd like to weigh all his options and test free agency. I know it's his right but it's a dick move IMO. I just believe a player should be upfront with his drafting team. He wasn't, and telling them last minute like this doesn't change anything.

As for Pronger comparisons. Im not saying I wouldn't be mad at Pronger if I was an Oiler fan. But Pronger was upfront with the team from the beginning and he made the move for personal reasons. Yes the timing was bad for fans, but I also believe he was moved when his value was highest (just single handedly carried Oilers to finals). Yeah it sucked for you guys, but at least he was up front ASAP and you guys got significant assets for him at the time. Not that it's completely ok or anything, but Schultz on the other hand has been dead silent and not helped the Ducks period. Imagine if Pronger demanded trade right before season and said he wouldn't play for Oilers. Wonder how much crappier the value would have been then?

Honestly I can totally respect a player not wanting to play for a certain team. However a player needs to be honest with the team he belongs to. They owe the team that IMO.

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06-12-2012, 12:04 AM
  #661
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I am going to take a contrary opinion that Schultz owes Anaheim not a thing. If he were a Major Junior player and had received as much as ONE PENNY from the Ducks then perhaps he would owe them... something.

However, as a NCAA college player who was drafted because the Ducks were fortunate enough to have the foresight to see his potential and as such under the NCAA rules they have not contributed anything to his development.

I say Justin Schultz owes Anaheim nothing.

But I can sympathize with their fan base who may be pissed with him. It is a privilege to be a UFA and pick your destiny. Most NHL players wait 8 years for the chance to ply their trade where they want.

Why is it to be only his fault. I would heap a huge portion of responsibility on the GM for not having the foresight to have seen this coming. He took a risk and it was not rewarded.

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06-12-2012, 01:20 AM
  #662
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Originally Posted by bcjonny View Post
I am going to take a contrary opinion that Schultz owes Anaheim not a thing. If he were a Major Junior player and had received as much as ONE PENNY from the Ducks then perhaps he would owe them... something.

However, as a NCAA college player who was drafted because the Ducks were fortunate enough to have the foresight to see his potential and as such under the NCAA rules they have not contributed anything to his development.

I say Justin Schultz owes Anaheim nothing.

But I can sympathize with their fan base who may be pissed with him. It is a privilege to be a UFA and pick your destiny. Most NHL players wait 8 years for the chance to ply their trade where they want.

Why is it to be only his fault. I would heap a huge portion of responsibility on the GM for not having the foresight to have seen this coming. He took a risk and it was not rewarded.
You're not being contrary. most of the people here are trying to say he's done nothing wrong. Fact of the matter is, when you give a verbal agreement, then yes you do owe a signature, whether Anaheim persue's this, is another story

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06-12-2012, 02:09 AM
  #663
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Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
Leafs can get Luongo and Shultz no problem. Both will cost little in a trade.


Luongo isn't going for scraps bud

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06-12-2012, 03:06 AM
  #664
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Luongo isn't going for scraps bud
Considering there probably is only one suitor...yeah he probably is going for scraps.

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06-12-2012, 08:30 AM
  #665
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I hate Murray more then anyone but how can Murray have foresight about what's going to happen when he's being told repeatedly that Schultz "can't wait" to be a Duck? It's not like he could sign him while he was in college. Schultz told him he was good to go after his college season ended.

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06-12-2012, 09:23 AM
  #666
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krazy View Post
Question.
I know that teams can only offer a max ELC with bonuses that come up to about 3 million..... But, are the specific benchmarks outlined as well or can the teams play with this

Ie Edm offers rookie max plus 1 million for playing 70 games and 1 million for 50 pts,
VAn offers rookie max plus 1 million for playing 10 games and 1 million for 10 pts?
The max bonus a player can make per category (i.e. ice time, goals, assists etc.) is $212,500, and cannot exceed $850,000 in the aggregate.

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06-12-2012, 09:29 AM
  #667
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You're not being contrary. most of the people here are trying to say he's done nothing wrong. Fact of the matter is, when you give a verbal agreement, then yes you do owe a signature, whether Anaheim persue's this, is another story
That argument wouldn't really hold up in court. Its very difficult to find the evidence that Schultz had agreed to a contract verbally, as well I'm not sure Schultz just straight up said yes I will agree to this contract.

Saying that you will do a contract and actually committing to the contract verbally in legal terms are two different things.

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06-12-2012, 10:15 AM
  #668
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krazy View Post
Question.
I know that teams can only offer a max ELC with bonuses that come up to about 3 million..... But, are the specific benchmarks outlined as well or can the teams play with this

Ie Edm offers rookie max plus 1 million for playing 70 games and 1 million for 50 pts,
VAn offers rookie max plus 1 million for playing 10 games and 1 million for 10 pts?
I believe the rookie bonuses are specified in the cba so no team can offer easier bonuses than any other.

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06-12-2012, 10:23 AM
  #669
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Talking about something and doing it are two different things.

What GM BM could have done and should have done is to have taken off the blinders about getting this talent in the line up. It is so easy to get tunnel vision when one desires a particular outcome so much.

Did anyone in the Ducks organization have a genuine rapport with Justin? Apart for the combine interviews? Was there a go to guy who built a relationship between the organization and the player that really knows anything about him? If I were in Ducks management and I saw this loophole anywhere near the horizon I would have made damn sure I knew where this kid would consider playing if not on the Ducks. But hindsight is 20-20 ... What I see as a possible scenario is the scouting staff got complacent and failed to build a meaningful relationship between the two. It is more than meeting after a game and patting the kid on the back and saying good game. I suppose it get more tricky at the NCAA college level though.

It seems communication is a more complex medium that we all take for granted. Communication takes work. All too often people are only on transmit waiting to talk rather than opening up their ears and actively listening before considering what they may say and how it can contribute to bringing the discussion to a logical conclusion. It seems obvious that this case is a clear breakdown in communication and for that to happen it takes two.


Last edited by ColePens: 06-12-2012 at 11:50 AM.
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06-12-2012, 10:30 AM
  #670
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Luongo isn't going for scraps bud
I agree they would rather have him riding the pine paying him then give him away, but some Leaf fans think all teams wanna do them a favour and ship their stars to them for peanuts.

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06-12-2012, 10:31 AM
  #671
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Selfishly, I hope he doesn't disappoint his parents... I know if my son had both the skillset and the choice and picked any other team than the Canucks... I'd kick him outa my house...lol
I'm sure his parents are not that crazy.

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06-12-2012, 10:32 AM
  #672
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That argument wouldn't really hold up in court. Its very difficult to find the evidence that Schultz had agreed to a contract verbally, as well I'm not sure Schultz just straight up said yes I will agree to this contract.

Saying that you will do a contract and actually committing to the contract verbally in legal terms are two different things.
I agree. Any notion that we'd pursue that avenue should be put to bed. There's a reason why verbal agreements are rarely pursued in court.

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06-12-2012, 10:35 AM
  #673
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Originally Posted by Oilmageddon View Post
I agree they would rather have him riding the pine paying him then give him away, but some Leaf fans think all teams wanna do them a favour and ship their stars to them for peanuts.
Or they can give him away and use the 5 mil cap space to do something productive. Do you ever think about the opportunity cost?

GMs give away players if it means they can improve the team. No one has a personal vendetta and holds on to a player just to spite other teams when there are better options out there. Burke gave away Bryzgalov and Kubina, Wilson gave away Erhoff, Luongo is likely next and contrary to what you think, the Canucks will be better off.

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06-12-2012, 11:19 AM
  #674
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Luongo isn't going for scraps bud
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oilmageddon View Post
I agree they would rather have him riding the pine paying him then give him away, but some Leaf fans think all teams wanna do them a favour and ship their stars to them for peanuts.
Not all Leaf fans, and not all star players. This situation is much like the Gagne deal, a high profile player (at the time), who needs to be moved yet has a NTC with only 1 or 2 suitors results in Matt Walker + 4th.

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06-12-2012, 11:29 AM
  #675
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Not all Leaf fans, and not all star players. This situation is much like the Gagne deal, a high profile player (at the time), who needs to be moved yet has a NTC with only 1 or 2 suitors results in Matt Walker + 4th.
Or Brian Campbell for Olesz, Dennis Wideman for some guy + 3rd.

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