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Old
06-12-2012, 09:37 AM
  #26
Balls Mahoney
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Why do people (especially Canucks fans) have trouble with reality? Look at the numbers and the wheels on Kesler's wagon gradually falling off since he started in front of the net on the power play. And as previously mentioned, the numbers indicate he's not very good in that role.

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06-12-2012, 09:38 AM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luck 6 View Post
Why are you shaking your head at this? There's a good deal of logic behind this move. If you remember, near the end of last season we moved Kesler to the left point on the #1 PP so that he could take full advantage of his excellent shot. It worked quite well from what I remember. Personally, I'd like to see us move Kesler from in front of the net to the point and use a guy like Kassian in front of the net.

Sedin-Sedin-Kassian
Kesler-Edler

If you ask me, that's a good unit. Kesler has one heck of a one timer, and he seems to be good at getting his shot through. He also skates well and can rush the puck into the zone himself, there are a lot of positives to such a set up.

And as others have said, I'd like to see us cut his PK time back a bit. Kesler plays too many hard minutes, he's always done by the time the playoffs come around.
Yeah exactly, Kesler's best asset in the offensive zone is his shot. So having him getting banged around in front of the net makes little sense. I don't understand why this is complicated for some. Kesler should be anchoring the second power play unit, not doing **** all in front of the net for the Sedins.

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06-12-2012, 09:46 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Balls Mahoney View Post
Why do people (especially Canucks fans) have trouble with reality? Look at the numbers and the wheels on Kesler's wagon gradually falling off since he started in front of the net on the power play. And as previously mentioned, the numbers indicate he's not very good in that role.
One of the 'what have you done for me lately crowd' eh...

Why is it people (especially some Canucks fans) get blinded by a first round loss and make up issues, when the aren't there.

Kesler has all qualities of a net front presence on the PP, great hand-eye, big, strong, can make plays, fairly disciplined, experienced, proven success. etc

Something wrong with the PP, we can't blame Luongo, so it has to be Kesler...

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06-12-2012, 09:51 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
One of the 'what have you done for me lately crowd' eh...

Why is it people (especially some Canucks fans) get blinded by a first round loss and make up issues, when the aren't there.

Kesler has all qualities of a net front presence on the PP, great hand-eye, big, strong, can make plays, fairly disciplined, experienced, proven success. etc

Something wrong with the PP, we can't blame Luongo, so it has to be Kesler...
Kesler's issues predate the 1st round loss. If you prefer to ignore them thats your business, some people can see the problems and would like to see Kesler succeed rather than spinning his wheels and getting injured unnecessarily.

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06-12-2012, 09:52 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
One of the 'what have you done for me lately crowd' eh...

Why is it people (especially some Canucks fans) get blinded by a first round loss and make up issues, when the aren't there.

Kesler has all qualities of a net front presence on the PP, great hand-eye, big, strong, can make plays, fairly disciplined, experienced, proven success. etc

Something wrong with the PP, we can't blame Luongo, so it has to be Kesler...
...What in the blue hell are you talking about? Kesler only scored 8 PPGs this year and was 49th overall in the league in PPGs with the two arguably best offensive players in the Western Conference and has steadily accumulated injuries and his game has grinded down to a fraction of what it used to be since he was put in front of the net. And why would you put a speedy Selke caliber two-way injury prone player in front of the net anyway when that's never been his game? And even in his peak year of 41 goals, only 36% of those came on the power play. I don't know what conspiracy theory you're cooking up there... but Kesler in front of the net on the power play is a stupid idea. I don't know how to make this more clear for you.

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06-12-2012, 09:54 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Balls Mahoney View Post
...What in the blue hell are you talking about? Kesler only scored 8 PPGs this year and was 49th overall in the league in PPGs with the two arguably best offensive players in the Western Conference and has steadily accumulated injuries and his game has grinded down to a fraction of what it used to be since he was put in front of the net. And why would you put a speedy Selke caliber two-way injury prone player in front of the net anyway when that's never been his game? And even in his peak year of 41 goals, only 36% of those came on the power play. I don't know what conspiracy theory you're cooking up there... but Kesler in front of the net on the power play is a stupid idea. I don't know how to make this more clear for you.
Agree to disagree. Not worth it.

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06-12-2012, 09:55 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
Agree to disagree. Not worth it.
Yeah because you can't dispute facts.

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06-12-2012, 09:58 AM
  #33
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Control Kesler?

Is he a child now?

The GM, coach and his father have all spoken to him yet we still have him getting off his game due to his desire to "prove" something.


Here's hoping he matures this summer.

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06-12-2012, 10:00 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Balls Mahoney View Post
Yeah because you can't dispute facts.
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Originally Posted by Balls Mahoney View Post
And even in his peak year of 41 goals, only 36% of those came on the power play.
Facts that you cherry pick. You argue that Kesler only scored 36% of his goals on the PP in 10/11 but fail to mention that actually put him 4th in the league. Daniel led the league with 18 of his 41. Stamkos had 17 of his 45. Are they not good powerplay players as well because only around 35-40% of their goals were on the PP? 36% of a players goals on the PP is ridiculous.

It's classic what have you done for me lately. I dont remember anyone complaining about Keslers net presence last year when the PP was smoking hot, this year it faltered, and a bunch of players (including the Twins) had worse stats then the year before, and we lost our PP QB, and now somehow that is Keslers fault because he scored less PP goals then the year before?

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06-12-2012, 10:02 AM
  #35
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Question shouldn't be finding a player to completely replace Kesler's traditional spot in front of the net on the power play; but to find *another* option that one can use periodically throughout the year.

Much like you don't play your starting goalie 82 games a year.

Need to limit the 'wear and tear' of a long season and it's effects on the health on Kesler (due to the fact he's not a "perimeter player").

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06-12-2012, 10:04 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Barney Gumble View Post
Question shouldn't be finding a player to completely replace Kesler's traditional spot in front of the net on the power play; but to find *another* option that one can use periodically throughout the year.

Much like you don't play your starting goalie 82 games a year.

Need to limit the 'wear and tear' of a long season and it's effects on the health on Kesler (due to the fact he's not a "perimeter player").
Exactly, and not only the wear and tear issue, but it is nice to have other options when certain players aren't going or the PP as a whole isn't going. This year it seemed there was no change in the attack when the PP wasn't working.

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06-12-2012, 10:05 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Balls Mahoney View Post
Yeah because you can't dispute facts.
Steve Stamkos had 12 PP goals. How's that for a fact. An injured, no training camp Kesler put up 4 less PP goals than the best goal scorer in the league.

The Sedin's production dropped by over 20 points, maybe that had something to do with it.

23 regular season PP goals in the last two seasons is pretty damn good, but I guess I'm disputing some fact.

Maybe the lack of a point man who can actually hit the net factored in...I guess that's not a fact.

Done arguing, I dont think you have any basis to state Kesler isn't a good net front presence on the PP...but you think they are facts.

You've stated he's not good at it, I disagree, maybe he might be better used on a 2nd unit or the point, but he's clearly very good at it.

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06-12-2012, 10:06 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Lord of Bones View Post
Facts that you cherry pick. You argue that Kesler only scored 36% of his goals on the PP in 10/11 but fail to mention that actually put him 4th in the league. Daniel led the league with 18 of his 41. Stamkos had 17 of his 45. Are they not good powerplay players as well because only around 35-40% of their goals were on the PP? 36% of a players goals on the PP is ridiculous.

It's classic what have you done for me lately. I dont remember anyone complaining about Keslers net presence last year when the PP was smoking hot, this year it faltered, and a bunch of players (including the Twins) had worse stats then the year before, and we lost our PP QB, and now somehow that is Keslers fault because he scored less PP goals then the year before?
I don't remember Kesler getting banged around in front of the net in his 41 goal season or at least not predominantly. I remember him lasering in goals from the half boards with his wrist shot... but maybe I'm crazy. And even still, I just don't see the point of putting an injury prone player who's a key member of the team in front of the net. Especially with Higgins, Booth, and Kassian on this team.

And I'm not against Kesler being on the power play, he's one of the team's best offensive players, he should be there. But I think there's better options to screen the goalie. That's all I'm saying.

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06-12-2012, 10:07 AM
  #39
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Last years Kesler was a result of being able to pit Manny against the opposing teams top line to enable Kesler to victimize their 3rd and 4th lines + being a lethal weapon on a dominating powerplay which has suffered greatly from the loss of Ehrhoff.

Pahlsson could have fixed the first issue but Kesler's injury prevented him from going into beast mode. Through free agency this issue might be addressed by McClement if he can return to his old form. Goc would be a good trade target.

Another option for getting Kesler going again is to acquire a top 6 impact player so he can continue shutting down the opposing team's top line and continue to score GOALS GOALS GOALS.

If we can sign Schultz, our powerplay problems might be partially solved. Wideman would be the best free agent for our powerplay needs but I don't think paying him 4M+ to fix our powerplay is justified. Garrison (who I think is a better fit overall, just not on the powerplay) isn't the offensive defenseman that Ehrhoff was. Most of Garrison's goals come from blasts from the point whereas Ehrhoff knew when to roam around the zone, opening up new passing lanes in the slot for Henrik, and when to crash the net. My Garrison comparable is Salo. Ehrhoff's presence on the powerplay was attempted to be replaced throughout the year by playing different forwards on the point (Kesler, Burrows, Sedin). If we acquired a top 6 impact player such as Semin, we might be able to address this issue without signing an offensive defenseman.

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06-12-2012, 10:11 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Balls Mahoney View Post
I don't remember Kesler getting banged around in front of the net in his 41 goal season or at least not predominantly. I remember him lasering in goals from the half boards with his wrist shot... but maybe I'm crazy. And even still, I just don't see the point of putting an injury prone player who's a key member of the team in front of the net. Especially with Higgins, Booth, and Kassian on this team.

And I'm not against Kesler being on the power play, he's one of the team's best offensive players, he should be there. But I think there's better options to screen the goalie. That's all I'm saying.
NO you are saying Kesler isn't good at playing in front of the net. You are wrong in that, and now you are backing away from your original argument.

I dont disagree, that maybe they should limit how much time he spends in front of the net for wear and tear purposes, but it's clear he is better at it than Higgins, Booth, and Kassian (at this point in time).

Kesler's 41 goal season, and the Canucks greatest season in their history happened because they moved Kesler to front of the net on the PP.

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06-12-2012, 10:11 AM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Balls Mahoney View Post
I don't remember Kesler getting banged around in front of the net in his 41 goal season or at least not predominantly. I remember him lasering in goals from the half boards with his wrist shot... but maybe I'm crazy. And even still, I just don't see the point of putting an injury prone player who's a key member of the team in front of the net. Especially with Higgins, Booth, and Kassian on this team.

And I'm not against Kesler being on the power play, he's one of the team's best offensive players, he should be there. But I think there's better options to screen the goalie. That's all I'm saying.
This seems to be what's getting lost in the shuffle. People seem to think Kesler net presence on the PP = all those goals last season. He scored most of his goals with his skate-in-and-rip-the-wrister move that no one had seen before. Everyone knew about it this season and that's (one of the reasons) why his numbers went down.

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06-12-2012, 10:12 AM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
NO you are saying Kesler isn't good at playing in front of the net. You are wrong in that, and now you are backing away from your original argument.

I dont disagree, that maybe they should limit how much time he spends in front of the net for wear and tear purposes, but it's clear he is better at it than Higgins, Booth, and Kassian (at this point in time).
He isn't good at it. I'm not backing away from that. I think Higgins or Kassian could be just as effective if not more so.

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06-12-2012, 10:16 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Balls Mahoney View Post
He isn't good at it. I'm not backing away from that. I think Higgins or Kassian could be just as effective if not more so.


2 of the first 3 clips on the first highlight pack I typed in, net front tips....

To quote Roger Clemens, "I think you are mis-remembering".

I cant argue with you any longer...its a fruitless endeavour.

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06-12-2012, 10:17 AM
  #44
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OP: I disagree with your assessment of Kesler's play. His antics and his productivity are two nearly separate issues. I say nearly because in order for Kesler to be offensively productive (which is what I care about way more than whether he's diving and yapping - Dustin Brown just led the Kings to the Cup behaving like a complete jackass), he needs to mix it up, physically and otherwise. That's the Kesler I want to see next year.

I'd way rather have a 65-75pt power center ******* than a guy pulls up and toe drags at the hashmark only to have his snap shot blocked or deflected ad nauseum while doing his best Jonathan Toews impersonation.

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06-12-2012, 10:22 AM
  #45
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The issue isn't whether Kesler is good or not in front of the net...it's pretty clear that he can be a force there on the PP. But it's like him being our #1 PK'er, it takes a serious toll. This is less about Kesler's ability as a player and more to do with how the coaches utilize him in different roles. When the PP fell off a cliff in January they kept trying to force feed the same routine instead of switching things up...it's not Kesler's fault he didn't produce on the PP, nobody did with any real effectiveness...this was a coaching issue. Kesler's issues are 5-on-5 when he refuses to use linemates, his diving/embellishments and his reckless style...which I love, but it produces a lot of wear and tear on a very important player for us.

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06-12-2012, 10:29 AM
  #46
Balls Mahoney
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Okay, I'm going to watch every Kesler PPG to settle this... NHL.com ******y ads be damned.

3/14/12 - Wrist shot from near the right faceoff dot.
2/07/12 - Wrist shot from near the left faceoff dot.
12/28/11 - Scored on rebound in front of net
12/10/11 - Banged in rebound in pileup in front of net
11/04/11 - Rebound off Hamhuis slapshot
5/22/11 - Slapshot near faceoff dot
5/05/11 - Wrist shot streaking in on net
5/03/11 - Tap in, in front of the net
5/03/11 - Tip in, in front of the net
4/09/11 - Wrist shot from the top of the slot
3/31/11 - Wrist shot from side of the net
3/14/11 - Rebound following his own shot from the slot
3/12/11 - Wrist shot from the slot
1/24/11 - Tip in from front net
1/18/11 - Tip in from front of net
12/15/10 - Wrist shot from awesome feed by Sedin
12/08/10 - Deflection in front of net
11/13/10 - Deflection from the faceoff dot (pretty *****ing actually)
11/04/10 - Laser wrist shot
10/26/10 - Rebound from Ehrhoff shot
10/17/10 - Slapshot from beautiful Ehrhoff feed

Honestly, from watching these goals... about half of these are from his net presence. The rest have been off his sweet wrist shot and from sweet feeds. But from watching these clips, there's really nothing here to make me think Higgins or Kassian couldn't be just as effective if not more so there. It's actually kind of stupid to be wasting Kesler's wrist shot there.


Last edited by Balls Mahoney: 06-12-2012 at 10:45 AM.
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06-12-2012, 12:07 PM
  #47
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The thing with Kesler is he never knows when to tone it down. Through the whole year he gives 110% and by the time playoffs come around, he's either out of gas or has an injury that he's hiding. Last year it seemed he had no gas left in the tank for the Boston series. And this year just wasn't his year at all. Half the time he just fired the puck from the blue line. He did show glimpses of how he can really play at some points this year, but he couldn't find his groove.

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06-12-2012, 12:09 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Chief Wiggum View Post
The thing with Kesler is he never knows when to tone it down. Through the whole year he gives 110% and by the time playoffs come around, he's either out of gas or has an injury that he's hiding. Last year it seemed he had no gas left in the tank for the Boston series. And this year just wasn't his year at all. Half the time he just fired the puck from the blue line. He did show glimpses of how he can really play at some points this year, but he couldn't find his groove.
There was no gas left in the tank for Boston because he was injured...an all too common thing now it seems.

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06-12-2012, 12:53 PM
  #49
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Kesler gets a bad wrap. The guy was only on for goal-against while he was playing on the PP. He was a beast defensively 5 on 5.

His production is up and down but he doesn't exactly have elite guys playing with him. Of Booth, Raymond, Higgins, Hansen - Mason Raymond actually has the best season statiscally in the last 3 years out of all of them.

The guy breaks down because he plays all the hard minutes for the team at centre. It's more or less crazy how the team is managed. Hell, even while injured late in the season AV is playing Kesler 20 minutes a night to clinch the President's Trophy...it's insane.

Kesler's main issue is that he's really poorly managed, and the media has thrown him under the bus with the fans believing it...same thing as Luongo.

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06-12-2012, 01:02 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by DJOpus View Post
Kesler gets a bad wrap. The guy was only on for goal-against while he was playing on the PP. He was a beast defensively 5 on 5.

His production is up and down but he doesn't exactly have elite guys playing with him. Of Booth, Raymond, Higgins, Hansen - Mason Raymond actually has the best season statiscally in the last 3 years.

Kesler's main issue is that the media has thrown him under the bus and fans believe it.
Fans around here have been on him before the media was.

Also, how was Kesler's offense 5-on-5? If he's a 2nd line center he should be expected to produce like one...and he shouldn't have to have "elite" wingers to produce...he's produced just fine in the past with Raymond, Samuelsson, Higgins and Burrows. Even Higgins and Hansen were a more productive players at 5-on-5 than Kesler. So its not throwing him under the bus, it's acknowledging there is an issue here.

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