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Islanders not interested in re-signing PA Parenteau?

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Old
06-12-2012, 09:52 AM
  #76
Wondercarrot
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Originally Posted by Jagorim Jarg View Post
Parenteau should recognize that he won't get a better break for the rest of his career than playing on Tavares' wing. He should milk this for a few more seasons at a reasonable deal, lest he go the way of Anson Carter and demand way too much money after one productive season with extremely fortunate linemates.

you're mistaken. he wont get a better break that hitting UFA status right now after a very good year and with the opportunity to sign a long term deal for a lot of money.
THIS is Parenteau's big opportunity.

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06-12-2012, 09:58 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by kasper11 View Post
While Tavares played well with Okposo for a short while, the line quickly grew ice cold. Tavares had 2 points in the first 8 games in February. The line was so cold that Cappy put PAP back on the line not to get PAP more points, but to jump start Tavares.

It should also be noted that PAP had a great January on the second line with 13 points in 13 games, for those that think he can only score with Tavares.

Fact is, I would be very weary of counting on Okposo to play on the top line until he proves he can compete at a high level for more than a 10-15 game stretch.
More wary than paying $5 million/year to PA Parenteau?

I really don't feel like doing it again, but see if you can find the thread where I discuss how PA has scored many of points. How many secondary assists. How many points on empty nets and non-5-on-5 situations. It's not that PA can't produce, it's how he produces and against which teams. Also, going from memory, I'm pretty sure there was a 3 game scoreless drought before the change was made to put PA back to the top line.

Go look up the stats of our top line against the teams within our division. The teams we played the most. Outside of the Rangers, they're brutally bad. The Moulson-JT-PAP line didn't gain a single point against Pittsburgh all year. It's a subpar 5-on-5 hockey line. Against physically stronger teams our top line suffered. That was not the case with Kyle Okposo there.

Yes, I'll gladly take my chances with Kyle Okposo at a reduced cost. The line just makes more sense considering the attributes of all of the players (and it's still not perfect.)

I also don't think you should head into war with Bailey-Nielsen-PAP as your second line. PAP should be a stopgap at best for 2 years, and that's not the kind of term he'll be looking for. The Islanders also shouldn't pay a premium for such a player. The money is better spent on different players and elsewhere.

If John Tavares is not a PPG player and Moulson is not a 30+ goal scorer next year with Kyle Okposo on the right side, I'll gladly eat all of my words in this thread. Save it for posterity.

,
Mitch

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06-12-2012, 10:02 AM
  #78
CREW99AW
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Originally Posted by kasper11 View Post
While Tavares played well with Okposo for a short while, the line quickly grew ice cold. Tavares had 2 points in the first 8 games in February. The line was so cold that Cappy put PAP back on the line not to get PAP more points, but to jump start Tavares.

It should also be noted that PAP had a great January on the second line with 13 points in 13 games, for those that think he can only score with Tavares.

Fact is, I would be very weary of counting on Okposo to play on the top line until he proves he can compete at a high level for more than a 10-15 game stretch.
I thought Cappy broke up that Moulson-Tavares-Okposo line to more balanced scoring,more scoring from the 2nd line.

I think Okposo helps with the needed puck pursuit and physical play on Tavares line.


http://www.newsday.com/sports/hockey...line-1.3429017

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06-12-2012, 10:06 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by mitchy22 View Post
More wary than paying $5 million/year to PA Parenteau?

I really don't feel like doing it again, but see if you can find the thread where I discuss how PA has scored many of points. How many secondary assists. How many points on empty nets and non-5-on-5 situations. It's not that PA can't produce, it's how he produces and against which teams. Also, going from memory, I'm pretty sure there was a 3 game scoreless drought before the change was made to put PA back to the top line.

Go look up the stats of our top line against the teams within our division. The teams we played the most. Outside of the Rangers, they're brutally bad. The Moulson-JT-PAP line didn't gain a single point against Pittsburgh all year. It's a subpar 5-on-5 hockey line. Against physically stronger teams our top line suffered. That was not the case with Kyle Okposo there.

Yes, I'll gladly take my chances with Kyle Okposo at a reduced cost. The line just makes more sense considering the attributes of all of the players (and it's still not perfect.)

I also don't think you should head into war with Bailey-Nielsen-PAP as your second line. PAP should be a stopgap at best for 2 years, and that's not the kind of term he'll be looking for. The Islanders also shouldn't pay a premium for such a player. The money is better spent on different players and elsewhere.



,
Mitch
I agree with a lot of your points.When discussing Moulson,I've been more critical then a lot of our posters,despite his three straight seasons, of at least 30 goals.I felt Tavares needed someone to open up space on the ice for him.

I'd like to see Parenteau stay,but don't agree that you give him whatever it takes to keep him.

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06-12-2012, 10:31 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by mitchy22 View Post
More wary than paying $5 million/year to PA Parenteau?

I really don't feel like doing it again, but see if you can find the thread where I discuss how PA has scored many of points. How many secondary assists. How many points on empty nets and non-5-on-5 situations. It's not that PA can't produce, it's how he produces and against which teams. Also, going from memory, I'm pretty sure there was a 3 game scoreless drought before the change was made to put PA back to the top line.

Go look up the stats of our top line against the teams within our division. The teams we played the most. Outside of the Rangers, they're brutally bad. The Moulson-JT-PAP line didn't gain a single point against Pittsburgh all year. It's a subpar 5-on-5 hockey line. Against physically stronger teams our top line suffered. That was not the case with Kyle Okposo there.

Yes, I'll gladly take my chances with Kyle Okposo at a reduced cost. The line just makes more sense considering the attributes of all of the players (and it's still not perfect.)

I also don't think you should head into war with Bailey-Nielsen-PAP as your second line. PAP should be a stopgap at best for 2 years, and that's not the kind of term he'll be looking for. The Islanders also shouldn't pay a premium for such a player. The money is better spent on different players and elsewhere.

If John Tavares is not a PPG player and Moulson is not a 30+ goal scorer next year with Kyle Okposo on the right side, I'll gladly eat all of my words in this thread. Save it for posterity.

,
Mitch
I'm not necessarily advocating for bringing PAP back for a long term deal either, just giving my opinion that failing to bring him back or replace him, and just assuming that the young players will step up is a recipe for another lottery pick.

Right now, the top-6 includes Okposo, who hasn't shown he can score consistently or play a physical game consistently, Bailey, same thing only he has shown even less, Grabner who looked lost for most of last season and Nielsen who has never reached 50 points.

Say this for PAP, over the course of the season his worst month he got 8 points in 14 games. In 2010-11 he only had one month with less than 8 points. This is regardless of what line he was on. That is consistent scoring that the Isles don't have other than Tavares and Moulson.

With PAP's 67 points, the Isles finished 25th in scoring last year. Lets say you take him out and Okposo does step up. Or Grabner or Bailey. The Isles would finish roughly the same. Not good enough. They need to retain or replace PAP (and improve the defense) if they want to be a playoff team.

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06-12-2012, 10:38 AM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kasper11 View Post
I'm not necessarily advocating for bringing PAP back for a long term deal either, just giving my opinion that failing to bring him back or replace him, and just assuming that the young players will step up is a recipe for another lottery pick.

.
We don't know that the isles, don't plan on bringing in another vet,another top 6 forward if Parenteau leaves.

I can't think of a reason that Parenteau would agree, to a short term deal.
He's holding all the cards:coming off back to back strong seasons,becoming a ufa on a weak ufa market.

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06-12-2012, 10:40 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Wondercarrot View Post
you're mistaken. he wont get a better break that hitting UFA status right now after a very good year and with the opportunity to sign a long term deal for a lot of money.
THIS is Parenteau's big opportunity.
Depends on how big of a home run he can hit... and how far off it is from what the Islanders are offering.

Although a little older, Anson Carter went for the money instead of his cushy job shovelling Sedin passes into the net. His numbers drastically plummeted and he was out of the league a couple seasons later. With the chemistry he had with the Sedins he could have played 3-4 more seasons with them.

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06-12-2012, 10:43 AM
  #83
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The Islanders have already made an offer to PAP. He turned it down and said he wanted to test the market. Simple as that.

Some team is going to overpay for him and in the current market he'll easily get 5 million or more. He knows this, the Isles know this and thus resigning him isn't just down to putting an offer on the table.

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Old
06-12-2012, 12:05 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Grant123 View Post
Agreed, my rule of thumb for forwards is 0.1m per point (clearly doesn't consider all factors but it works out pretty well)

Kelly 3m cap hit for 39 points (personally I was surprised he signed that cheap, probably for term)
Campbell 1.6m cap hit for 16 points
Jones 4m cap hit for 37 points
McLeod 1.15m cap hit for 11 points
Koivu 3.8m for 38 points
Grabo 5.5m cap hit for 51 points
Connolly last off season got signed for 4.75m cap hit after he got 42 points in 68 games

These are some of the most recent contracts. My rule of thumb doesn't work perfectly but in general it is very close. I would expect most of the UFAs to be like this. It is the going rate now.

That said, I don't think PA will get 6.7m cap hit. I think if he resigns with NYI, it will be 5m cap hit (can't go over Tavares for obvious reasons) but if he signs as a UFA I think his cap hit will end up being 5.5m with term or 6m for a 1 or 2 year deal.
You made up a rule of thumb and found a few examples to meet it. I can come up with nearly that many on the Pens alone that crap all over that rule.

James Neal 81 points. 5 mil per
Matt Cooke averages 30 points. 1.8 per
Pascal Dupuis averages 35 points. 1.5 per

etc etc

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06-12-2012, 12:12 PM
  #85
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Jason Blake part II

Shoulda traded him at the deadline and get a pick/prospect back
I was gonna post the same thing.

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Old
06-12-2012, 12:17 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
Tavares best month of this season was easily Jan.The month Okposo was on his rw,doing the grunt work:fighting for pucks along the boards and behind the net.

In 13 games,Tavares had 22 pts and was a plus 11.The only month he finished with a plus.

I will be more then happy, if the isles go with a 1st line of Moulson-Tavares-Okposo next season.
I agree

Having Okposo on JT's right wing is by far the best option, unless we can upgrade that through free agency, but I was never really a fan of PAP being on the top line.

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06-12-2012, 12:23 PM
  #87
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Parenteau attended a Moncton Wildcats alumi-charity golf tourney this weekend. When asked about resigning, he said there had only been LITTLE talks but he hopes they can come to an agreement becausee his heart is in NY but it seemed unlikely at the time. He expects to test the waters but thinks he has an idea how it will pan out and that he expects to sign on a contract on July 1st or 2nd. Its unfortunate because he an awesome guy. Took him 7 years in the minors before he got a fair chance. Would love to see him in Toronto , too bad he isnt a center , I think he and Kessel would compliment each other well. But its wishful thinking and highly unlikely IMO..

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06-12-2012, 12:28 PM
  #88
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I am interested by the one description of PA as I haven't seen him much. Its speculated that a big goal scoring centre will do wonders for him. Wonder if there is a fit on Vancouver's second line? If he is putting up 60 points, 4.5M sounds pretty reasonable. Curious, is his game much like Tanguay's?

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06-12-2012, 12:32 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
Take away his surgery season and he's scored 18,19 and 24 goals.
Let's say for the next 3-4 yrs,he scores 23/24 goals a yr on the 2nd line,never hitting 25-30.

Is he a 3rd liner because he's falled 1-6 goals a yr short?
Getting 20 goals a year is fine, if you are getting 30-40 assists a year. Sorry but 20 goals and 20 assists is not a 2nd line player. Not saying he never will be but I dont view him as a perennial top 6 forward.

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06-12-2012, 12:33 PM
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remember when Dom Moore asked for too much from the Leafs , didnt take a good offer then got screwed as a UFA? Sign for less PA you big dummy. You were an AHL player 2 yrs ago

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06-12-2012, 12:38 PM
  #91
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I'd be wary of giving him anything above 3.5 mill.

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06-12-2012, 12:47 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by gliff View Post
Getting 20 goals a year is fine, if you are getting 30-40 assists a year. Sorry but 20 goals and 20 assists is not a 2nd line player. Not saying he never will be but I dont view him as a perennial top 6 forward.
He had 53 pts in his last full,presurgery season.Just as important as the points,was his aggressive,physical play.

He started this season with 3 total points in his first 15 games,was benched for 3 straight games,before getting untracked.
He had an interview between periods of an Isles/Ranger game,telling Micheletti he had been been worrying, about reinjuring the repaired shoulder.

first 15 games:3 pts.
last 64 games:42 pts

I view him as a top 6 player.An inconsistent one,but still a top 6 player.

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06-12-2012, 12:51 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by WildcatMapleLeafs28 View Post
Parenteau attended a Moncton Wildcats alumi-charity golf tourney this weekend. When asked about resigning, he said there had only been LITTLE talks but he hopes they can come to an agreement becausee his heart is in NY but it seemed unlikely at the time. He expects to test the waters but thinks he has an idea how it will pan out and that he expects to sign on a contract on July 1st or 2nd. Its unfortunate because he an awesome guy. Took him 7 years in the minors before he got a fair chance. Would love to see him in Toronto , too bad he isnt a center , I think he and Kessel would compliment each other well. But its wishful thinking and highly unlikely IMO..
It'll be interesting to read, whether the big stumbling block between Snow and Parenteau rep,was dollar amount or length of the contract.

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06-12-2012, 01:05 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
He had 53 pts in his last full,presurgery season.Just as important as the points,was his aggressive,physical play.

He started this season with 3 total points in his first 15 games,was benched for 3 straight games,before getting untracked.
He had an interview between periods of an Isles/Ranger game,telling Micheletti he had been been worrying, about reinjuring the repaired shoulder.

first 15 games:3 pts.
last 64 games:42 pts

I view him as a top 6 player.An inconsistent one,but still a top 6 player.
Is Tyler Kennedy a top 6 player? Pascal Dupuis? Kennedy scored 21 goals and 45 points a couple seasons ago, Dupuis scored 25 goals and 57 points this past season. Is that enough to vault them into legitimate top six player status? In the case of Dupuis, he plays in the Pens' top six. But would anyone really describe him as a top six player in the league?

I do think that for a player to be a legitimate top six player, he's got to show more offense on a consistent basis. If a player is around a 35 to 45 point guy for the most part, but has one "big" year where he scores 55+ points, I don't think that's enough to qualify him as a legitimate top six player.

I think Okposo has the potential to be a top six winger, but I don't think you can call him one yet. Obviously if we want to argue semantics, technically he is one ... for the Islanders, because that's where he plays in their line up. But generally speaking, I don't think Okposo has consistently produced like one yet to say without a doubt he is one.

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06-12-2012, 01:06 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by Caustic Acrostic View Post
Okposo would need to have a very angry summer to up his compete level to where I'd call him a top six winger. That #1 RW spot needs more grit, and since JT can't do it all himself and Moulson's a Lady Byng candidate, I'd rather not fill that position with KO unless absolutely necessary.

One good thing about PAP was he wasn't such the stranger to running his mouth and getting in an opponent's face a little after a whistle, unlike KO.
Couldn't agree more. Last year PA had 99 hits while KO had 51 hits. By comparison Blake Comeau who many people felt was not consistent in his compete level had 108 hits.
I also felt that PA was one of the few players who showed some anger and disappointment at losing while Kyle, Bailey and Comeau didn't show for the first 15 games. PA competed hard every game.

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06-12-2012, 01:08 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by kevinBOOMBOOMbieksa View Post
I am interested by the one description of PA as I haven't seen him much. Its speculated that a big goal scoring centre will do wonders for him. Wonder if there is a fit on Vancouver's second line? If he is putting up 60 points, 4.5M sounds pretty reasonable. Curious, is his game much like Tanguay's?
I think he'd be a great fit with Kesler. Sounds like he might be trying to hit too big of a home run though.

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06-12-2012, 01:18 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by kasper11 View Post
While Tavares played well with Okposo for a short while, the line quickly grew ice cold. Tavares had 2 points in the first 8 games in February. The line was so cold that Cappy put PAP back on the line not to get PAP more points, but to jump start Tavares.

It should also be noted that PAP had a great January on the second line with 13 points in 13 games, for those that think he can only score with Tavares.

Fact is, I would be very weary of counting on Okposo to play on the top line until he proves he can compete at a high level for more than a 10-15 game stretch.
Thank you. PA and Frans were the best players during the "playoff run" in February while the top line was ice cold. I'm not blaming Kyle because he did have a bout of the flu but your observation about his performing at a high level for 10-15 is very accurate.
While no other Islander approaches JT's compete level (even when he's in a slump) at least PA is one of the more consistent. The only one who is as bad as KO is Bailey who performs well for 5 games when he's moved to another line and then retreats into his "Richie Cunningham" persona.

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06-12-2012, 01:33 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
He had 53 pts in his last full,presurgery season.Just as important as the points,was his aggressive,physical play.

He started this season with 3 total points in his first 15 games,was benched for 3 straight games,before getting untracked.
He had an interview between periods of an Isles/Ranger game,telling Micheletti he had been been worrying, about reinjuring the repaired shoulder.

first 15 games:3 pts.
last 64 games:42 pts

I view him as a top 6 player.An inconsistent one,but still a top 6 player.
Thats like me saying "I view Fowler as a #1 because he will ahve a 20 game streak where he dominates and plays liek a legit #1". Or me saying "Perry is the best winger in the world because of his 30 game streak". Or Toronto fans saying :Kessel is the best winger in the world because he started the first 20 games out on an insane streak then cooled off o his average numbers". Oh wait they do say that first part....

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06-12-2012, 01:37 PM
  #99
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Isn't this guy like horrible defensively? Why is he asking for so much money lol

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06-12-2012, 02:04 PM
  #100
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Hopefully the habs do not go after him, the last thing we need is another soft forward
P.A. is anything but soft, he is actually a little bit of an agitator. He's not big enough to lay out huge hits, but it is physical and doesn't take **** from anyone. Him and Chara had a little pow wow in one game and PA was not afraid of Chara one bit. He'll be liked in Montreal.

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