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JVR Surgery Discussion (update post #356: No hip surgery for JVR, Holmgren confirms)

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Old
06-12-2012, 05:17 PM
  #301
dingbathero
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Just ****ing end this madness.... Ahhhhhhhhh.

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06-12-2012, 05:18 PM
  #302
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I would rather overpay for top talent than pay what a player is "worth" for mediocre production. JVR had his shot, I'd rather have Nash (a known producer) for twice JVRs price.

You don't give Giroux mediocre finishers, you give Giroux elite finishers; otherwise you are limiting Girouxs production. I think Nash would make this team significantly better, and with big money players coming off the books over the next couple of years (plus the cap increasing) Nash will have great value for 7.8/yr.

Get Nash. Get some depth for the D. Worry about a stud D-man next offseason (Weber).

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06-12-2012, 05:20 PM
  #303
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Here's the major thing that everyone is neglecting to consider about Nash... his jersey number is the inverse of best, most revered player in Flyers franchise history. Obviously he's destined for great success here.

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06-12-2012, 05:22 PM
  #304
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Originally Posted by Amateur Hour View Post
Here's the major thing that everyone is neglecting to consider about Nash... his jersey number is the inverse of best, most revered player in Flyers franchise history. Obviously he's destined for great success here.
...you make a good point...

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06-12-2012, 05:26 PM
  #305
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Here's the major thing that everyone is neglecting to consider about Nash... his jersey number is the inverse of best, most revered player in Flyers franchise history. Obviously he's destined for great success here.
Doesn't that mean he would produce inversely proportionate; therefore, being the worst player in franchise history?

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06-12-2012, 05:31 PM
  #306
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Originally Posted by Amateur Hour View Post
Here's the major thing that everyone is neglecting to consider about Nash... his jersey number is the inverse of best, most revered player in Flyers franchise history. Obviously he's destined for great success here.
The inverse of 16 is -16 ... or 1/16 if you are multiplying.

Sorry I had to! Haha!

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06-12-2012, 05:38 PM
  #307
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StevensCakeBakerBacker View Post
I would rather overpay for top talent than pay what a player is "worth" for mediocre production. JVR had his shot, I'd rather have Nash (a known producer) for twice JVRs price.

You don't give Giroux mediocre finishers, you give Giroux elite finishers; otherwise you are limiting Girouxs production. I think Nash would make this team significantly better, and with big money players coming off the books over the next couple of years (plus the cap increasing) Nash will have great value for 7.8/yr.

Get Nash. Get some depth for the D. Worry about a stud D-man next offseason (Weber).
Yea, Scott Hartnell really limited Giroux's production this year...

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06-12-2012, 05:39 PM
  #308
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Originally Posted by Icedog2735 View Post
The inverse of 16 is -16 ... or 1/16 if you are multiplying.

Sorry I had to! Haha!
I was always much better with the humanities in school anyway.

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Doesn't that mean he would produce inversely proportionate; therefore, being the worst player in franchise history?
Well played.

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06-12-2012, 05:42 PM
  #309
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Why the hell would they want Nash, if they are going after a forward spend it on Parise.

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06-12-2012, 05:47 PM
  #310
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Why the hell would they want Nash, if they are going after a forward spend it on Parise.
Because Nash is better than Parise. And his style of play fills a need more than Parise IMO. We're set with smaller framed forwards (giroux, briere, read, talbot, wellwood). Nash is a huge dude, and plays with a mean streak. Something this team has been severely lacking for years, IMO. Hartnell plays with an edge but isn't a tank like Nash is, and doesn't have half the pure talent.

Give me a choice of Parise and nash, and I take Nash every day. And I have a GINORMOUS soft spot for american players.

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06-12-2012, 05:57 PM
  #311
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Why the hell would they want Nash, if they are going after a forward spend it on Parise.
Because if they SPEND on Parise, that gives us less to spend on other FAs. If we trade for Nash, we'll potentially trade away more cap space than what we get in return.

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06-12-2012, 05:57 PM
  #312
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Because Nash is better than Parise. And his style of play fills a need more than Parise IMO. We're set with smaller framed forwards (giroux, briere, read, talbot, wellwood). Nash is a huge dude, and plays with a mean streak. Something this team has been severely lacking for years, IMO. Hartnell plays with an edge but isn't a tank like Nash is, and doesn't have half the pure talent.

Give me a choice of Parise and nash, and I take Nash every day. And I have a GINORMOUS soft spot for american players.
I disagree, I think Parise is better. That being said, I dont want them to go after a big time forward.

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06-12-2012, 05:57 PM
  #313
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Why the hell would they want Nash, if they are going after a forward spend it on Parise.
and if parise wants to go elsewhere?


Whoever gets nash, will get him at a bargain (since he requested a trade) Cap hit excluded

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06-12-2012, 05:59 PM
  #314
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Because if they SPEND on Parise, that gives us less to spend on other FAs. If we trade for Nash, we'll potentially trade away more cap space than what we get in return.
I dont want them to go after either, but given a choice I would rather have Parise. Im not sure how adding either of these players addresses their obvious weakness which is their defense.

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06-12-2012, 06:00 PM
  #315
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and if parise wants to go elsewhere?


Whoever gets nash, will get him at a bargain (since he requested a trade) Cap hit excluded
Then go after Suter or try to trade JVR for a defender.

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06-12-2012, 06:06 PM
  #316
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Originally Posted by In G We Trust View Post
Yea, Scott Hartnell really limited Giroux's production this year...
You're right. I forgot about the first 1/4 of the season and the entire postseason when Harts was lighting it up.

You don't think Nash is a significant upgrade over Hartnell?

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06-12-2012, 06:06 PM
  #317
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I dont want them to go after either, but given a choice I would rather have Parise. Im not sure how adding either of these players addresses their obvious weakness which is their defense.
Parise's a more uptempo forechecker and better defensively and may fit the Flyers better. But Nash is more skilled, bigger, and is certainly no slouch defensively, and may fit Giroux better....which in a round-about way may fit the Flyers better...making Giroux happy.

Their obvious weakness is still defense and this doesn't fix it. But it's not their only weakness, there are other much easier fixes on the team, like acquiring a primary scoring winger...which Briere isn't until April and JvR hasn't become.

1. Defense
2. Back-up goalie/move Bob for something decent
3. Scoring compliment to G
4. 4th line center.

The scoring compliment to G will be a big splash, so it'll come off as a high priority, but it isn't higher than defense.

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06-12-2012, 06:16 PM
  #318
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I like Nash, I hate 7.8M Cap Hit.

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06-12-2012, 06:18 PM
  #319
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Originally Posted by StevensCakeBakerBacker View Post
You're right. I forgot about the first 1/4 of the season and the entire postseason when Harts was lighting it up.

You don't think Nash is a significant upgrade over Hartnell?
There are lots of flaws with this logic, and basically it boils down to this: if you expect Nash to make Giroux significantly better than he was this year, you will be extremely disappointed.


Giroux could play on a line with Kovalchuk, and he might have broken 100 this year. Linemates dont make as big a difference as you think they do.

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06-12-2012, 06:26 PM
  #320
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There are lots of flaws with this logic, and basically it boils down to this: if you expect Nash to make Giroux significantly better than he was this year, you will be extremely disappointed.


Giroux could play on a line with Kovalchuk, and he might have broken 100 this year. Linemates dont make as big a difference as you think they do.
We expect the other way around. Nash should bump G over 100 pts, G should bump Nash up to 80ish.

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06-12-2012, 06:26 PM
  #321
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Yea, Scott Hartnell really limited Giroux's production this year...
Scott Hartnell had a career year. Are you trying to say that Hartnell is an elite winger? Please, Hartnell took advantage of an opportunity presented to him. Hartnell is NOT an elite winger. He's a decent player that got a chance to play with a superb playmaker.

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06-12-2012, 06:35 PM
  #322
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Originally Posted by hockeyfreak7 View Post
There are lots of flaws with this logic, and basically it boils down to this: if you expect Nash to make Giroux significantly better than he was this year, you will be extremely disappointed.


Giroux could play on a line with Kovalchuk, and he might have broken 100 this year. Linemates dont make as big a difference as you think they do.
Just from personal experience, I have to disagree. Not to compare High school hockey to the NHL (), but my numbers were way inflated by my best friend in my junior year when I played on his wing

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06-12-2012, 06:53 PM
  #323
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Just from personal experience, I have to disagree. Not to compare High school hockey to the NHL (), but my numbers were way inflated by my best friend in my junior year when I played on his wing
I realized I was not specific enough, but I'm not allowed to edit my posts anymore (damn mods )

So let me clarify-- linemates make a difference the weaker the players are.

So, a 40 point player could probably hit 60 with Sidney Crosby. A 60 point player could probably hit about 70. An 80 point player wouldnt see too big a jump. A 100 point player probably wouldnt see much of a difference at all.


So basically, linemates matter until a certain point. When we're talking about guys like Giroux, you arent going to see their numbers increased depending on the quality of their linemates.




That being said, linemates wont matter for Giroux-- he's a 90+ point guy already. Linemates certainly would matter for Nash

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06-12-2012, 07:02 PM
  #324
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Originally Posted by hockeyfreak7 View Post
There are lots of flaws with this logic, and basically it boils down to this: if you expect Nash to make Giroux significantly better than he was this year, you will be extremely disappointed.


Giroux could play on a line with Kovalchuk, and he might have broken 100 this year. Linemates dont make as big a difference as you think they do.
Not really any flaws at all...

You think Giroux reaches his full potential with 40 year old and Hartnell? If the Flyers don't give Giroux top level NHL talent to capitalize on his playmaking ability he becomes the Brian Westbrook of the Flyers franchise; an exceptional talent that accomplishes little because of a lack of support.

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06-12-2012, 07:18 PM
  #325
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So nervous. I want to keep Schenner and Cooter. But I really like Nash. Hmmmm.

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