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JVR Surgery Discussion (update post #356: No hip surgery for JVR, Holmgren confirms)

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Old
06-12-2012, 08:21 PM
  #326
JVR21
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JVR and the pick is about all I'd be comfortable giving up. If Schenn or Couturier is involved, lord help me.

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06-12-2012, 08:21 PM
  #327
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Originally Posted by DeflatedFootball7 View Post
So nervous. I want to keep Schenner and Cooter. But I really like Nash. Hmmmm.
I wouldn't like the deal at all if either of those two are moved to get him.

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06-12-2012, 08:50 PM
  #328
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Originally Posted by StevensCakeBakerBacker View Post
Not really any flaws at all...

You think Giroux reaches his full potential with 40 year old and Hartnell? If the Flyers don't give Giroux top level NHL talent to capitalize on his playmaking ability he becomes the Brian Westbrook of the Flyers franchise; an exceptional talent that accomplishes little because of a lack of support.
That's just not how it works. I dont know what else to tell ya.


He put up 93 points. On pace for about 100. How much more do you expect from him? Do you really think Nash would make Giroux put up 115+ ?

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06-12-2012, 08:56 PM
  #329
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Westbrook deserved better.

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06-12-2012, 09:00 PM
  #330
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Originally Posted by hockeyfreak7 View Post
That's just not how it works. I dont know what else to tell ya.


He put up 93 points. On pace for about 100. How much more do you expect from him? Do you really think Nash would make Giroux put up 115+ ?
Possibly, but I expect you to realize that part of Girouxs production (or value) is making other players around him better. You telling me that Nash's production wouldn't increase significantly if he was centered by Giroux?

Nash will finish more than anyone else currently on the team, and will maximize Girouxs production/value moreso than anyone else currently on the roster.

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06-12-2012, 09:03 PM
  #331
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If Homer pulls the trigger and Couts is somehow involved, this fanbase's collective rage will crash HFBoards for at least a day.

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Old
06-12-2012, 09:20 PM
  #332
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Originally Posted by StevensCakeBakerBacker View Post
Possibly, but I expect you to realize that part of Girouxs production (or value) is making other players around him better. You telling me that Nash's production wouldn't increase significantly if he was centered by Giroux?

Nash will finish more than anyone else currently on the team, and will maximize Girouxs production/value moreso than anyone else currently on the roster.
I already answered this in a previous post. Nash's production will increase from playing with Giroux. Giroux's production will not increase from playing with Nash.

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06-12-2012, 09:26 PM
  #333
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I'd just as soon make a conditional trade with Nashville for Suter's rights. Some base offer, then it could turn into JVR straight swap if we get him for 5+ years at under 6.8 million.

Suter - Kimmo
Coburn - Grossman
Mez - Gus, Bourdon, Manning, Bart



That's a pretty good D corp right there. I don't like trading one a big forward with two way ability though, since our forwards were as much a liability defensively as our D, but you gotta give to get.

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06-12-2012, 09:32 PM
  #334
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Originally Posted by Giroux tha Damaja View Post
I'd just as soon make a conditional trade with Nashville for Suter's rights. Some base offer, then it could turn into JVR straight swap if we get him for 5+ years at under 6.8 million.

Suter - Kimmo
Coburn - Grossman
Mez - Gus, Bourdon, Manning, Bart



That's a pretty good D corp right there. I don't like trading one a big forward with two way ability though, since our forwards were as much a liability defensively as our D, but you gotta give to get.
I'm pretty confident that we aren't getting suter.

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06-12-2012, 09:41 PM
  #335
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orange is better View Post
I'm pretty confident that we aren't getting suter.
You're probably right, I'm sort of fantasizing. I think the Preds and Flyers have shown a good relationship in the past, and we all know Holmgren is willing to pay for what he wants. My guess is if the Flyers wanted him and it didn't happen it would be because of Suter's wishes.


What makes you doubtful other than the high amount of competition for him? Nashville management not wanting to trade us his rights, or him not wanting to sign here, or the Flyers not being interested in him at the price he'll garner.....or all three?

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06-12-2012, 09:46 PM
  #336
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Originally Posted by Giroux tha Damaja View Post
You're probably right, I'm sort of fantasizing. I think the Preds and Flyers have shown a good relationship in the past, and we all know Holmgren is willing to pay for what he wants. My guess is if the Flyers wanted him and it didn't happen it would be because of Suter's wishes.


What makes you doubtful other than the high amount of competition for him? Nashville management not wanting to trade us his rights, or him not wanting to sign here, or the Flyers not being interested in him at the price he'll garner.....or all three?
It isn't up to the Preds. If it was, and if they couldn't resign Suter--I see no reason they wouldn't trade us his rights--they want him out of the West, afterall.

But the consensus seems to be that 1. Suter wants to test free agency, and 2. he might not want a big market. Both of those make trading for his rights suspect.

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06-12-2012, 09:58 PM
  #337
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It isn't up to the Preds. If it was, and if they couldn't resign Suter--I see no reason they wouldn't trade us his rights--they want him out of the West, afterall.

But the consensus seems to be that 1. Suter wants to test free agency, and 2. he might not want a big market. Both of those make trading for his rights suspect.
I really think Detroit is going to throw a huge contract at him that the Flyers can't match. Even then, they may have to go bigger to draw him away from the Wings. Holland has already publicly stated that they will be very active in trying to replace Lidstrom. If he says it, it's probably true considering they're usually very quiet about their intentions.

I don't love the idea of a JVR trade for Nash, but I wouldn't hate it either. It's a big cap hit, but it gives Giroux a big sniper to excel with. I would still rather that money be spent on upgrading the defense.

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Old
06-12-2012, 10:10 PM
  #338
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Yea well, from one of those random internet hockey insider guys (***************) the "close deal" is

JVR
Read
Couturier
1st in 2012

for

Nash
Jack Johnson or 2nd overall

Ill be so pissed of Couturier is traded.

EDIT: Didnt see this posted like 5 pages back on the offseason thread. My bad.


Last edited by sa cyred: 06-12-2012 at 10:16 PM.
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06-12-2012, 10:13 PM
  #339
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Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
Yea well, from one of those random internet hockey insider guys (***************) the "close deal" is

JVR
Read
Couturier
1st in 2012

for

Nash
Jack Johnson or 2nd overall

Ill be so pissed of Couturier is traded.
ugh...no please...noooooooooooooo!

Freakin Howson is so ******** over that fleecing he has to try and make amends. I bet he's saying no trade whatsoever unless you offer up Couts.....

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06-12-2012, 10:14 PM
  #340
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Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
Yea well, from one of those random internet hockey insider guys (***************) the "close deal" is

JVR
Read
Couturier
1st in 2012

for

Nash
Jack Johnson or 2nd overall

Ill be so pissed of Couturier is traded.
i would miss Couturier too, but that deal would be an absolute steal for Philly.

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Old
06-12-2012, 10:21 PM
  #341
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Originally Posted by bauer View Post
i would miss Couturier too, but that deal would be an absolute steal for Philly.
I don't know about a steal but it wouldn't necessarily set us back either.....giving up Couts would be painful...

Edit: oh wait so it's Nash and JJ OR Nash and 2nd overall......um yeah NO!


Last edited by FreshPerspective: 06-12-2012 at 10:31 PM.
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Old
06-12-2012, 10:23 PM
  #342
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i would miss Couturier too, but that deal would be an absolute steal for Philly.
I disagree. Losing Couturier who may end up being one of the top 3 defensive forwards in the league is a big deal.

Id rather keep the forward group we have now.

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Old
06-12-2012, 10:29 PM
  #343
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Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
Yea well, from one of those random internet hockey insider guys (***************) the "close deal" is

JVR
Read
Couturier
1st in 2012

for

Nash
Jack Johnson or 2nd overall

Ill be so pissed of Couturier is traded.

EDIT: Didnt see this posted like 5 pages back on the offseason thread. My bad.
If the Richards and Carter trades set the Flyers back 3-5 years, that would set them back even further, especially if it's for JJ and not the second overall. That would be the last straw for Homer in my book. I've given him a lot of slack for the way he turned around the team after Forsberg left, but I would have to call it a day on him if this went through. Our forward depth would be gone, and we wouldn't come close to upgrading the defense enough to offset the loss in scoring.

The only saving grace is that it's not a legit source.

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06-12-2012, 11:52 PM
  #344
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To be fair the rumor is listed as "Some of the players that are being tossed around", not ALL of the players being offered.

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06-13-2012, 12:54 AM
  #345
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I realized I was not specific enough, but I'm not allowed to edit my posts anymore (damn mods )

So let me clarify-- linemates make a difference the weaker the players are.

So, a 40 point player could probably hit 60 with Sidney Crosby. A 60 point player could probably hit about 70. An 80 point player wouldnt see too big a jump. A 100 point player probably wouldnt see much of a difference at all.


So basically, linemates matter until a certain point. When we're talking about guys like Giroux, you arent going to see their numbers increased depending on the quality of their linemates.




That being said, linemates wont matter for Giroux-- he's a 90+ point guy already. Linemates certainly would matter for Nash
James Neal's career high before getting traded to Pitt was 55 points. Last year he played all year with Malkin and had 40G 41A.

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Old
06-13-2012, 01:12 AM
  #346
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Trade one guy who doesn't play 200 ft for another cause he can score a few more goals. Great. Why not try to acquire Stamkos for Couts while we're at it, then we can score 400 goals next season. Sounds like the blueprint to a cup that all the recent winners have used.

No wonder we haven't won a cup since 75. What next, Uncle Ed hires Joe Banner who comes out and says we're the "gold standard."
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That might actually be very helpful.
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Originally Posted by jeh82 View Post
Yup. Somebody in the front office should know something about the salary cap.
Oh yeah, I forgot about all those Lombardi Trophys down at the Nova Care Complex.....silly me

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06-13-2012, 01:17 AM
  #347
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Are those stone cold locks? Those always worked out for him.
Not those, the stone cold mortal locks.

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06-13-2012, 01:21 AM
  #348
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Not to take away from Carter, the guy is good and all, but he is not the type of player Giroux is. Giroux is the type of player that can make other players better. Carter is the type of player that makes himself better. There is nothing wrong with that, but saying that because Nash didn't do better in his 100 shifts with Jeff Carter on the Blue Jackets means he won't do anything with Giroux isn't really a great argument. I'm not saying he'll win the Hart trophy if he comes here, but it isn't far fetched to think he will do better playing on a better team, with better linemates, in a better atmosphere.
Yeah, just like Bryz was supposed to do better, on a better team, with better teammates, in a better NHL city......

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06-13-2012, 01:23 AM
  #349
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Yeah, just like Bryz was supposed to do better, on a better team, with better teammates, in a better NHL city......
Entirely different. Bryz left a very defensive-minded Phx team to come here, which is quite easy to say, different.

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06-13-2012, 01:27 AM
  #350
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Yeah, just like Bryz was supposed to do better, on a better team, with better teammates, in a better NHL city......
If you actually watched the series against the Devils you would be aware that none of that was on him. Quite honestly he was the only Flyer that appeared to be trying. Doesn't help when the Flyers were playing the entire series in their defensive zone. But yes lets judge Ilya one year into a new contract.

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