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Old
06-12-2012, 07:51 PM
  #26
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Tallon is not a moron last time I checked, so this isn't a trade he'd make.

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Old
06-12-2012, 07:55 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeh82 View Post
Meh, the rumored trade was Schenn + for JVR. This is JVR + for Kulikov.
Why does Florida need a low first round draft pick again? They already have one, don't think they are looking for another. I understand what you are trying to do here, JVR has talent, but for Florida he isn't what we are exactly looking for. We have too many young prospects in our system, we are looking for a developed top 6 forward. Plus it's not JVR + for Kulikov it's JVR + and Kulikov +.

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Old
06-12-2012, 08:17 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UniverStalinGraduate View Post
Tallon is not a moron last time I checked, so this isn't a trade he'd make.
Agree. As of today, JVR is being paid $4.5 million on a long term deal. He is also facing shoulder surgery.

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Old
06-12-2012, 08:26 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by tuckrr View Post
kulikov for JVR?! **** no.
I know your a Flyer fan and all but i can't see why the Flyers wouldn't do it.
Undersatnd why the Panthers wouldn't touch this as Kulikov > JVR

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06-12-2012, 11:37 PM
  #30
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Panthers wouldn't entertain this I don't think. Kulikov is that good. Definitely a notch on my wish list. But more then likely, not available at all.

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06-13-2012, 12:03 AM
  #31
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I'd like JvR for Kulikov straight-up more. I'd definitely do it as a fan, however I doubt Tallon would.

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06-13-2012, 12:08 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by SeanVT395 View Post
I'd like JvR for Kulikov straight-up more. I'd definitely do it as a fan, however I doubt Tallon would.
Of course you would.

Kulikov is massively underrated. He didn't have a great playoff, but not that many young players do.

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06-13-2012, 12:09 AM
  #33
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Value is there but do the Panthers really want to part with Kullikov?

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06-13-2012, 01:48 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Leaf Rocket View Post
Value is there but do the Panthers really want to part with Kullikov?
if jvr is the best forward out of 28 other teams proposed trades for a rising defensemen that would make an immediate impact on helping the panthers offensive woes...the answer is clearly no.

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Old
06-13-2012, 07:16 AM
  #35
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A more realistic offer would be JVR for Ellerby plus a second in 2012. I am not suggesting that Flyers Fans will agree BTW, but here is the reasoning.

The Flyers are up against the cap. JVR was signed to a big, long term contract at $4.5 million last season as the projected replacement for Hartnell, who becomes a free agent at the end of the 2012-13 season. Now, the Flyers would like to resign Hartnell, which makes JVR an over paid luxury, who may or may not justify his contract in the future, but his performance last season and need for off-season shoulder surgery have certainly reduced his value.

Ellerby is a big, mobile d-man drafted tenth in the first round in 2007. He projects as a solid No. 4, stay-at- home d- man and can likely be signed as an RFA to a 2 year contract at around $1.2 million. Ellerby will be tne odd man out if Garrison resigns.

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Old
06-13-2012, 07:19 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SufferingCatFan View Post
A more realistic offer would be JVR for Ellerby plus a second in 2012. I am not suggesting that Flyers Fans will agree BTW, but here is the reasoning.

The Flyers are up against the cap. JVR was signed to a big, long term contract at $4.5 million last season as the projected replacement for Hartnell, who becomes a free agent at the end of the 2012-13 season. Now, the Flyers would like to resign Hartnell, which makes JVR an over paid luxury, who may or may not justify his contract in the future, but his performance last season and need for off-season shoulder surgery have certainly reduced his value.

Ellerby is a big, mobile d-man drafted tenth in the first round in 2007. He projects as a solid No. 4, stay-at- home d- man and can likely be signed as an RFA to a 2 year contract at around $1.2 million. Ellerby will be tne odd man out if Garrison resigns.
Does Coburn and Grossmann ring a bell?

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Old
06-13-2012, 08:42 AM
  #37
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Does Coburn and Grossmann ring a bell?
Yes. But, if Carle resigns, you will need someone defensively responsible and relatively cheap to pair with Meszaros. This also frees up the money to resign Voracek.

BTW, I am not suggesting that the Flyers would jump on this proposal. I am suggesting that JVR with his contract may no longer fit into the Flyers long-term plans. In contrast, Kulikov, as a young, legitimate PMD with major upside is one of the Panthers building blocks and would likely bring a much better return than a trade built around JVR, whose value is much diminished by his contract and his need for shoulder surgery.

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Old
06-13-2012, 08:59 AM
  #38
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It's completely understandable that teams would be extra cautious about listening to trades with JvR as the centrepiece, considering his health issues. Different approach: Voracek and one of Gustaffson/Bourdon/Manning for Kulikov.

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Old
06-13-2012, 09:59 AM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BernieParent View Post
It's completely understandable that teams would be extra cautious about listening to trades with JvR as the centrepiece, considering his health issues. Different approach: Voracek and one of Gustaffson/Bourdon/Manning for Kulikov.
None of those prospects have significant value. Most teams, including Florida, have a handful of guys in their system who are just as likely to have NHL careers.

But I would definitely consider swapping Voracek for JVR in the OP.

Voracek
20th overall

Kulikov
53rd overall.

It looks a bit tilted toward Florida. Maybe they need to add a 3rd?

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06-13-2012, 11:39 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeh82 View Post
None of those prospects have significant value. Most teams, including Florida, have a handful of guys in their system who are just as likely to have NHL careers.

But I would definitely consider swapping Voracek for JVR in the OP.

Voracek
20th overall

Kulikov
53rd overall.

It looks a bit tilted toward Florida. Maybe they need to add a 3rd?
I would do something around Voracek for Gudbranson. I don't know how much each team needs to add, but both are young and Voracek is the more established player. Florida could use another 50-60 player this year. Voracek has a ceiling I think in a career year of 70-80 points.

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06-13-2012, 11:40 AM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SufferingCatFan View Post
A more realistic offer would be JVR for Ellerby plus a second in 2012. I am not suggesting that Flyers Fans will agree BTW, but here is the reasoning.

The Flyers are up against the cap. JVR was signed to a big, long term contract at $4.5 million last season as the projected replacement for Hartnell, who becomes a free agent at the end of the 2012-13 season. Now, the Flyers would like to resign Hartnell, which makes JVR an over paid luxury, who may or may not justify his contract in the future, but his performance last season and need for off-season shoulder surgery have certainly reduced his value.

Ellerby is a big, mobile d-man drafted tenth in the first round in 2007. He projects as a solid No. 4, stay-at- home d- man and can likely be signed as an RFA to a 2 year contract at around $1.2 million. Ellerby will be tne odd man out if Garrison resigns.
Realistic for who? Florida? We need top pairing, not anymore 3-4-5-6 defenders. Exactly where Ellerby falls.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SufferingCatFan View Post
Yes. But, if Carle resigns, you will need someone defensively responsible and relatively cheap to pair with Meszaros. This also frees up the money to resign Voracek.

BTW, I am not suggesting that the Flyers would jump on this proposal. I am suggesting that JVR with his contract may no longer fit into the Flyers long-term plans. In contrast, Kulikov, as a young, legitimate PMD with major upside is one of the Panthers building blocks and would likely bring a much better return than a trade built around JVR, whose value is much diminished by his contract and his need for shoulder surgery.
Timonen - Carle
Grossmann - Coburn
Meszaros - Gus/MAB[both fine as a #6].

If? Apparently Carle ALREADY has a deal on the table. Right now as it stands, we have space to give Jake 3 per, IIRC.

If the deal isn't for Kulikov, we don't need another 3-4-5-6 defender. We need top pairing, I can understand why you wouldn't want/like the deal as a Panthers fan. But as Flyers fans, we don't need anymore 3-4-5-6 defenders.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeh82 View Post
None of those prospects have significant value. Most teams, including Florida, have a handful of guys in their system who are just as likely to have NHL careers.

But I would definitely consider swapping Voracek for JVR in the OP.

Voracek
20th overall

Kulikov
53rd overall.

It looks a bit tilted toward Florida. Maybe they need to add a 3rd?
I LOVE Kulikov, but there's zero way I add a first ontop of Voracek RFA or not.

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06-13-2012, 11:42 AM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyersfan9180 View Post
I would do something around Voracek for Gudbranson. I don't know how much each team needs to add, but both are young and Voracek is the more established player. Florida could use another 50-60 player this year. Voracek has a ceiling I think in a career year of 70-80 points.
I guess the question is, who is more highly valued by Florida, Gudbranson or Kulikov. My sense was the former--who looks like a potential franchise defenseman. Kulikov is, perhaps, more of an 1B defenseman--think Kimmo Timonen as opposed to Pronger, etc.

My sense was that Kulikov has the more developed offensive game too, which the Flyers lack.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Sh0otnSc0re View Post

I LOVE Kulikov, but there's zero way I add a first ontop of Voracek RFA or not.
Yeah. It seems a bit much--though, to be fair, my proposal was Kulikov + 2nd. It would be better if that second was about 10-15 spots higher in the draft--thus the reason I suggested that Florida might have to add a second pick.

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06-13-2012, 11:49 AM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeh82 View Post
I guess the question is, who is more highly valued by Florida, Gudbranson or Kulikov. My sense was the former--who looks like a potential franchise defenseman. Kulikov is, perhaps, more of an 1B defenseman--think Kimmo Timonen as opposed to Pronger, etc.

My sense was that Kulikov has the more developed offensive game too, which the Flyers lack.




Yeah. It seems a bit much--though, to be fair, my proposal was Kulikov + 2nd. It would be better if that second was about 10-15 spots higher in the draft--thus the reason I suggested that Florida might have to add a second pick.
I would take Gudbranson over Kulikov.

Maybe a deal like this could work??

Voracek
3rd rounder (2012)
Bourdon

for

Gudbranson
2nd rounder (2012)(If they choose to keep it)

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Old
06-13-2012, 11:51 AM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyersfan9180 View Post
I would take Gudbranson over Kulikov.

Maybe a deal like this could work??

Voracek
3rd rounder (2012)
Bourdon

for

Gudbranson
2nd rounder (2012)(If they choose to keep it)
Florida wouldn't do that--the value is pretty bad for them, really.

Bourdon wouldn't likely make their NHL club, assuming they resigned Garrison.

Voracek is a very good second-line winger with top-line upside, but you don't move a potential franchise defenseman for that.

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06-13-2012, 12:04 PM
  #45
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The fact Flyers fans are against this trade is absolutely disturbing. I'd take this in a heartbeat. Kulikov is one of the most gifted young defensemen in the league today and doesn't get enough credit. He'd be a cornerstone for the Flyers for YEARS.

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06-13-2012, 12:07 PM
  #46
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Please stop, Gudbranson and Kulikov will never be moved.

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Old
06-13-2012, 12:07 PM
  #47
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Couts or Schenn
Exactly. JVR has done nothing to prove he's worth that contract since he got it. If he does this year, this deal might work next summer.

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Old
06-13-2012, 12:39 PM
  #48
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Please stop, Gudbranson and Kulikov will never be moved.
I wouldn't say never, but at least not for JVR.

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06-13-2012, 12:54 PM
  #49
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I wouldn't say never, but at least not for JVR.
I would do Schenn for Gudbranson

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06-13-2012, 01:12 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by flyersfan9180 View Post
I would do Schenn for Gudbranson
That's good, Tallon won't.

Only way Kuli is moved, IMO, is in a package for someone like Kane. JVR and a swap of picks wont get it done. Wouldn't mind us picking up JVR, but you're not gonna get a player near Kuli's level for him without seriously sweetening the pot.

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