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Oilers to move down at the draft...

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Old
06-13-2012, 10:20 AM
  #76
Jack de la Hoya
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Quote:
Originally Posted by worraps View Post
You're grossly over valuing Schenn. Replace his name with Gardiner and there is a basis for the conversation.

The Oilers have no real interest in giving the Leafs a franchise right winger for a 2-3 D, and a 5-6 D.
You're undervaluing Schenn, but that almost isn't the point.

You're moving from a flawed premise. Edmonton doesn't do anything other than draft Yakupov if they believe he is a franchise winger and Murray is "only" a 2-3 defenseman.

Either they are lower on Yakupov, or significantly higher on Murray.

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06-13-2012, 10:23 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by jeh82 View Post
You're undervaluing Schenn, but that almost isn't the point.

You're moving from a flawed premise. Edmonton doesn't do anything other than draft Yakupov if they believe he is a franchise winger and Murray is "only" a 2-3 defenseman.

Either they are lower on Yakupov, or significantly higher on Murray.
Until he can improve his foot speed and avoid being a healthy scratch on one of the worst defensive teams in the league, Schenn is just another Coke machine on skates. Only on these boards could he be considered otherwise.

There is little to no basis for thinking the Oilers are lower on Yakupov or significantly higher on Murray. Yakupov is by far and away the consensus number 1 and Murray is bouncing all over people's lists. The Oilers wanted Murray when they thought they were going to pick 2, they won a lottery and the world changed.


Last edited by worraps: 06-13-2012 at 10:28 AM.
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Old
06-13-2012, 10:24 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by worraps View Post
There is little to no basis for thinking that is true. Yakupov is by far and away the consensus number 1 and Murray is bouncing overall people's lists. They wanted Murray when they thought they were going to pick 2, they won a lottery and the world changed.
...and that's all fine. But then there is no reason for them to even consider trading down and taking Murray, right?

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06-13-2012, 10:25 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by worraps View Post
So by that logic Columbus should be happy to get a 2-3 D-man and an NHL ready D prospect, that could end up being a pairing in the future, for Nash?
what?

Let me reword it for you.

Lets say CBJ trades Nash. Lets say they get something like JVR, 1st Bobrovsky or Zibanejdad, Lehner 1st for him.

CBJ fans will still be upset that they are losing their captain and the face of the team.

Trade 2nd overall and a d prospect to Edmonton for the first overall.

CBJ drafts Yakupov. CBJ fans are happier now that they have a future star.

Zibanejad/Johansen/Yakupov

or

Van Riemsdyk/Johansen/Yakupov

Those lines look pretty good to me.

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06-13-2012, 10:25 AM
  #80
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I'm not buying the Oilers NOT drafting Yakupov first overall until I actually see it happening. Lost in all the madness that is Edmonton's defense/goalie issues is the fact they couldn't score last season, either. Yes, they were fine when the kid line was lighting it up, but more balance up front is also a team need.

Everybody preaches "best player available" all the time, but now suddenly the Oilers are supposed to pass? The one time where BEST PLAYER AVAILABLE makes the absolute most sense is when you're picking first overall. Then he really is the best. Not just best available, but best.

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06-13-2012, 10:26 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Zetterberg4Captain View Post
To Winnipeg
-1st overall pick

To Edmonton
-Bogosian
-9th overall pick
No thanks from this Jets fan. I'd rather have Bogosian and whomever we get at 9 then just Yakupov.

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06-13-2012, 10:27 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by jeh82 View Post
...and that's all fine. But then there is no reason for them to even consider trading down and taking Murray, right?
We don't know that they are. From everything we've heard, they really like Yakupov, obviously.

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06-13-2012, 10:29 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Qward View Post
what?

Let me reword it for you.

Lets say CBJ trades Nash. Lets say they get something like JVR, 1st Bobrovsky or Zibanejdad, Lehner 1st for him.

CBJ fans will still be upset that they are losing their captain and the face of the team.

Trade 2nd overall and a d prospect to Edmonton for the first overall.

CBJ drafts Yakupov. CBJ fans are happier now that they have a future star.

Zibanejad/Johansen/Yakupov

or

Van Riemsdyk/Johansen/Yakupov

Those lines look pretty good to me.
I think he was suggesting that the 1st is worth more than a 2/3 defenseman and a defensive prospect, and asking whether you would settle for that return for Nash.

(I think it is a flawed argument that sells Murray short, but I think that was the point...)

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06-13-2012, 10:29 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by worraps View Post
Until he can improve his foot speed and avoid being a healthy scratch on one of the worst defensive teams in the league, Schenn is just another Coke machine on skates. Only on these boards could he be considered otherwise.

There is little to no basis for thinking the Oilers are lower on Yakupov or significantly higher on Murray. Yakupov is by far and away the consensus number 1 and Murray is bouncing all over people's lists. The Oilers wanted Murray when they thought they were going to pick 2, they won a lottery and the world changed.
Schenn has played 79, 82 and 79 games respectively, the last 3 years. How does that make him a healthy scratch on " one of the worst defensive teams in the league"?

Our entire defensive corps has looked like **** ever since Wilson was brought in. I wouldn't be shocked to see great seasons out of a few of our dmen now that Carlyle is our coach.

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06-13-2012, 10:30 AM
  #85
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Oilers dropping down makes perfect sense.

Their defense is atrocious, and if they ever want to compete this is something that needs to be addressed.

I won't be shocked if Oilers trade down, and some Oiler fans will be eating crow compared to the ridicolous proposals they have been making for the #1 overall this whole time compared to what the real value or trade will be.

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06-13-2012, 10:30 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
I'm not buying the Oilers NOT drafting Yakupov first overall until I actually see it happening. Lost in all the madness that is Edmonton's defense/goalie issues is the fact they couldn't score last season, either. Yes, they were fine when the kid line was lighting it up, but more balance up front is also a team need.

Everybody preaches "best player available" all the time, but now suddenly the Oilers are supposed to pass? The one time where BEST PLAYER AVAILABLE makes the absolute most sense is when you're picking first overall. Then he really is the best. Not just best available, but best.

The Oil had the 2nd fewest shots per game last season. A high flying style offense like theres should be putting up way more shots.

To me it says they were stuck in their own zone too much. You can't create offense if you can't get the puck out of your own zone. Good defense translates to more offensive chances.

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Old
06-13-2012, 10:36 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Qward View Post
what?

Let me reword it for you.

Lets say CBJ trades Nash. Lets say they get something like JVR, 1st Bobrovsky or Zibanejdad, Lehner 1st for him.

CBJ fans will still be upset that they are losing their captain and the face of the team.

Trade 2nd overall and a d prospect to Edmonton for the first overall.

CBJ drafts Yakupov. CBJ fans are happier now that they have a future star.

Zibanejad/Johansen/Yakupov

or

Van Riemsdyk/Johansen/Yakupov

Those lines look pretty good to me.
You posted that you thought Yakupov, someone you viewed as a replacement star for Nash, was worth a 2nd overall pick (that would yield a 2-3 D-man) and an NHL ready D-man prospect, therefore Nash should be worth the same.

Given that Nash is a severely overpaid 70 point player, I'd argue that Yakupov on an ELC is more valuable to everyone but a contender.

If these two players are worth what you implicitly think they are, boy did Columbus ever miss the boat by not pulling the trigger on the deal the Rangers offered them.

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Old
06-13-2012, 10:42 AM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Howie View Post
Oilers dropping down makes perfect sense.

Their defense is atrocious, and if they ever want to compete this is something that needs to be addressed.

I won't be shocked if Oilers trade down, and some Oiler fans will be eating crow compared to the ridicolous proposals they have been making for the #1 overall this whole time compared to what the real value or trade will be.
They could trade down but only for a massive overpayment. Think Gardiner + 5th overall + option to swap first in 2013 with the Leafs or straight up for a signed Webber.

I don't think that type of deal gets done because of ... you know ... the whole over payment aspect.

If they accept anything less than a massive overpayment for a talent like Yakupov, management is inept (this is a more probable reason for a trade down deal getting done than an overpayment).

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06-13-2012, 10:44 AM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by worraps View Post
You posted that you thought Yakupov, someone you viewed as a replacement star for Nash, was worth a 2nd overall pick (that would yield a 2-3 D-man) and an NHL ready D-man prospect, therefore Nash should be worth the same.

Given that Nash is a severely overpaid 70 point player, I'd argue that Yakupov on an ELC is more valuable to everyone but a contender.

If these two players are worth what you implicitly think they are, boy did Columbus ever miss the boat by not pulling the trigger on the deal the Rangers offered them.
ease up there tiger. There is a big difference between a proven 30+ goal scoring olympian compared to a 18 year old kid.

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06-13-2012, 10:48 AM
  #90
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Originally Posted by HockeyGuruPitka View Post
I know this is like beating a dead horse, however earlier this morning on TSN 1050 radio Darren Dreger was on discussing what Edmonton is likely to do at the draft. He said that his sense is that the Oilers don't simply take Yakupov at No. 1. They need to add on defense, and this may force them to trade down..

I know Edmonton seems to be extremely high on Murray. How can they set up a trade that gets them Murray and another defense man?

Somehow get a solid defense man and acquire the 2nd overall pick?
We can refuel the Leafs oilers rumors in 543..2.1 NOW

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06-13-2012, 10:48 AM
  #91
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Originally Posted by joestevens29 View Post
Is there any recent examples of a team that took need over BPA at #1?
The Sens should have when they picked Daigle over Pronger

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Old
06-13-2012, 10:50 AM
  #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Howie View Post
Oilers dropping down makes perfect sense.

Their defense is atrocious, and if they ever want to compete this is something that needs to be addressed.

I won't be shocked if Oilers trade down, and some Oiler fans will be eating crow compared to the ridicolous proposals they have been making for the #1 overall this whole time compared to what the real value or trade will be.
How many times has this been repeated...

Oilers defence sucks. We know. The reason it sucks is because we don't have a true #1 and #2 (with Whitney's injuries) and it forces less talented but still good D-men to play more minutes than they should (Petry, Smid, Schultz and Whitney.)

So looking at the above you can see we're well stocked in depth defenceman but what we need badly is a true #1 minute eating D-man. The question is, how will drafting a fresh 18 year-old and acquiring a 5-6 defenceman like Schenn improve our defence for next year? Sure Murray will maybe eventually be able to fill that role but D-men are notoriously slow developers so we'll we just be stuck with 2 more semi-talented depth defenceman for next year.

On the other hand, we can take the top flight winger who is the unanimous best player in the draft to finally get some secondary scoring and continue building a lethal offence which will surely improve the team more than an 18 year old defenceman will.

Contrary to popular belief, the Oilers do have assets besides the kids who have value and Tambellini should look to trade those pieces for a D-man rather than making a toonie for two loonies type deal.

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06-13-2012, 10:53 AM
  #93
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If the Oilers are really set on drafting Murray, they shouldnt move down more than 2 spots.

Either make a deal with Columbus or Montreal.

Heres the Montreal Offer: Yannick Weber and the 3rd selection for the no.1 selection.

Weber is a good offensive D-man that can take a regular shift and play the point on the Powerplay.

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06-13-2012, 10:54 AM
  #94
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The Oilers recent signing of Top D Prospect O.Klefbom could be an indicator that they will be taking Yakupov, not Murray.

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06-13-2012, 10:54 AM
  #95
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I know Dudley traded the 1st overall in 2002 to Columbus for the third pick. Then gave Dallas 2 picks to guarantee that Bouwmeester would be available at #3. Does anyone have any more info on this? What did Florida receive for moving down to the third overall?

Just researched... Essentially they traded CBJ the 1st overall for an option to swap picks in columbus in 2003 if columbus happened to finish lower in the standings... Well florida ended up getting the 1st overall in 2003 and ended up getting nothing for moving down. Hopefully this isnt indicative of what Edmonton may receive if they were to trade down..

Dudley has made some pretty awful moves if i may say so myself..


Last edited by HockeyGuruPitka: 06-13-2012 at 11:02 AM.
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Old
06-13-2012, 10:55 AM
  #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by habs_24x View Post
If the Oilers are really set on drafting Murray, they shouldnt move down more than 2 spots.

Either make a deal with Columbus or Montreal.

Heres the Montreal Offer: Yannick Weber and the 3rd selection for the no.1 selection.

Weber is a good offensive D-man that can take a regular shift and play the point on the Powerplay.
Wouldn't be enough, I think. And Columbus would probably still take Murray at 2, leaving Edmonton without Yakupov or Murray.

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06-13-2012, 10:55 AM
  #97
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ease up there tiger. There is a big difference between a proven 30+ goal scoring olympian compared to a 18 year old kid.
Yeah about 1-2 years of development and 4 million dollars in cap space.

Here is a list of the last 5 first overall picks and their point totals from last year:

2011- Ryan Nugent-Hopkins (52 in 62 games played)
2010- Taylor Hall (53 in 61 games played)
2009- John Tavares (81 in 82 games played)
2008- Steven Stamkos (97 in 82 games played)
2007- Patrick Kane (66 in 82 games played)

and

2002 - Rick Nash (59 in 82 games played)

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06-13-2012, 10:58 AM
  #98
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Originally Posted by habs_24x View Post
If the Oilers are really set on drafting Murray, they shouldnt move down more than 2 spots.

Either make a deal with Columbus or Montreal.

Heres the Montreal Offer: Yannick Weber and the 3rd selection for the no.1 selection.

Weber is a good offensive D-man that can take a regular shift and play the point on the Powerplay.
Doesn't seem like much incentive for Edmonton.


Last edited by Seachd: 06-13-2012 at 11:23 AM.
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06-13-2012, 10:59 AM
  #99
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Originally Posted by habs_24x View Post
If the Oilers are really set on drafting Murray, they shouldnt move down more than 2 spots.

Either make a deal with Columbus or Montreal.

Heres the Montreal Offer: Yannick Weber and the 3rd selection for the no.1 selection.

Weber is a good offensive D-man that can take a regular shift and play the point on the Powerplay.
If this deal happened, Weber would be chased out of the town by the fans by mid October. Tambo would soon follow.

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06-13-2012, 11:02 AM
  #100
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I don't know why you have this thought process. Dreger was probably asking if it's a possibility to move down, and I'm sure EDM said yes. All GMs should say yes. A good GM would make sure they look at all possible outcomes and at least see what they can get by trading.

Therefore - it's probably true, but the percent of it happening is probably low.
It's been a well known fact that the Oilers would be willing to trade down, but it would take a deal that would knock Tombo's socks off, As to Dreger, he is a media hog, he's willing to do anything for ratings or please the TO market and anything he says should be taken with a grain of salt.

There is some question is Murray that top pairing D or will he be a very good second pairing D. If the Oilers trade down it will be for Griffin Reinhart.

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