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Oilers to move down at the draft...

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Old
06-13-2012, 11:20 AM
  #101
janesy12
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Originally Posted by habs_24x View Post
If the Oilers are really set on drafting Murray, they shouldnt move down more than 2 spots.

Either make a deal with Columbus or Montreal.

Heres the Montreal Offer: Yannick Weber and the 3rd selection for the no.1 selection.

Weber is a good offensive D-man that can take a regular shift and play the point on the Powerplay.
In no world does Yannick Weber + 3rd overall get the Habs 1st (Yakupov).
I'm not just saying that either because I'm a Leafs fan. The cost to draft #1 overall and pick a player that is a cut above everyone else is going to be more than most teams will pay imo. So, for the Habs you're looking at Beaulieu, or Tinordi. I know Habs fans will say this is ridiculous and overpayment, but that's what the price will be.

So, just because everyone loves Leaf offers, I do not think Schenn +5th gets the 1st either. I believe Schenn will rebound, but you're talking Gardiner + 5th to move up. Edmonton doesn't HAVE to trade down. Then can take the BPA which is Yakupov, by far.

Thats my opinion...teams will have to overpay.

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06-13-2012, 11:22 AM
  #102
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Originally Posted by janesy12 View Post
I no world does Yannick Weber + 3rd overall get the Habs 1st (Yaukpov).
I'm not just saying that either because I'm a Leafs fan. The cost to draft #1 overall and pick a player that is a cut above everyone else is going to be more than most teams will pay imo. So, for the Habs you're looking at Beaulieu, or Tinordi. I know Habs fans will say this is ridiculous and overpayment, but that's what the price will be.

So, just because everyone loves Leaf offers, I do not think Schenn +5th gets the 1st either. I believe Schenn will rebound, but if you're talking probably Gardiner + 5th to move up. Edmonton doesn't HAVE to trade down. Then can take the BPA which is Yakupov, by far.

Thats my opinion...teams will have to overpay.
"The Florida Panthers trade the first pick (Marc-Andre Fleury) and 73rd pick (Daniel Carcillo) to the Pittsburgh Penguins for the third pick (Nathan Horton), the 55th pick (Stefan Meyer) and Mikael Samuelsson."

In 2003, the cost to move from 3 to 1 was a mediocre forward prospect and a late 2nd (and the 1st came with a mid-3rd).

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06-13-2012, 11:22 AM
  #103
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They'd be smarter to trade up and get one of the d-men who inevitably slides in the middle of the first round.

There are plenty of first round defense men. Teams will make off-the-board picks, players will slide.

I see no reason for the Oilers to trade down just to have the pick of the litter among a group of d-men that has no real consensus top player, particularly not at the expense of Yakupov.

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06-13-2012, 11:25 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by janesy12 View Post
In no world does Yannick Weber + 3rd overall get the Habs 1st (Yakupov).
I'm not just saying that either because I'm a Leafs fan. The cost to draft #1 overall and pick a player that is a cut above everyone else is going to be more than most teams will pay imo. So, for the Habs you're looking at Beaulieu, or Tinordi. I know Habs fans will say this is ridiculous and overpayment, but that's what the price will be.

So, just because everyone loves Leaf offers, I do not think Schenn +5th gets the 1st either. I believe Schenn will rebound, but you're talking Gardiner + 5th to move up. Edmonton doesn't HAVE to trade down. Then can take the BPA which is Yakupov, by far.

Thats my opinion...teams will have to overpay.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeh82 View Post
"The Florida Panthers trade the first pick (Marc-Andre Fleury) and 73rd pick (Daniel Carcillo) to the Pittsburgh Penguins for the third pick (Nathan Horton), the 55th pick (Stefan Meyer) and Mikael Samuelsson."

In 2003, the cost to move from 3 to 1 was a mediocre forward prospect and a late 2nd (and the 1st came with a mid-3rd).
Fleury wasn't the clear cut #1. He was the clear cut #1 for Pittsburgh. Staal was drafted at #2. Most teams would have taken Staal. Yakupov is ahead of everyone in this draft. Completely different situation.

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06-13-2012, 11:28 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by janesy12 View Post
In no world does Yannick Weber + 3rd overall get the Habs 1st (Yakupov).
I'm not just saying that either because I'm a Leafs fan. The cost to draft #1 overall and pick a player that is a cut above everyone else is going to be more than most teams will pay imo. So, for the Habs you're looking at Beaulieu, or Tinordi. I know Habs fans will say this is ridiculous and overpayment, but that's what the price will be.

So, just because everyone loves Leaf offers, I do not think Schenn +5th gets the 1st either. I believe Schenn will rebound, but you're talking Gardiner + 5th to move up. Edmonton doesn't HAVE to trade down. Then can take the BPA which is Yakupov, by far.

Thats my opinion...teams will have to overpay.
I guess I shouldn't be surprised that you have to go all the way to the Maritimes to find a rational Leafs fan.

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06-13-2012, 11:29 AM
  #106
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Originally Posted by jeh82 View Post
"The Florida Panthers trade the first pick (Marc-Andre Fleury) and 73rd pick (Daniel Carcillo) to the Pittsburgh Penguins for the third pick (Nathan Horton), the 55th pick (Stefan Meyer) and Mikael Samuelsson."

In 2003, the cost to move from 3 to 1 was a mediocre forward prospect and a late 2nd (and the 1st came with a mid-3rd).
Fleury, Staal and Horton were essentially on a level playing field in most people's minds. Team need then became an issue, Florida didn't need Fleury with Luongo in net, and needed a power forward. It isn't like this year, where one prospect is ranked almost unanimously as the best player. Yakupov is considered a potential franchise player, nobody else is considered to have that potential. Your argument is as ridiculous as someone using Cam Barker and Sidney Crosby to gauge value of the 3rd and 1st overall picks.

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06-13-2012, 11:29 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by janesy12 View Post
Fleury wasn't the clear cut #1. He was the clear cut #1 for Pittsburgh. Staal was drafted at #2. Most teams would have taken Staal. Yakupov is ahead of everyone in this draft. Completely different situation.
Again, the whole premise of this is that the Oilers do NOT believe there is a major gap between Yakupov and Murray. If they do, they don't trade down at all.

Even so, the difference between this situation and that precedent is not the difference between Samuelson and Tinordi / Beaulieu.

I don't know if the Oilers will trade down, but I do not think they will pick up multiple blue-chip prospects per spot if they do...

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06-13-2012, 11:29 AM
  #108
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Originally Posted by jeh82 View Post
"The Florida Panthers trade the first pick (Marc-Andre Fleury) and 73rd pick (Daniel Carcillo) to the Pittsburgh Penguins for the third pick (Nathan Horton), the 55th pick (Stefan Meyer) and Mikael Samuelsson."

In 2003, the cost to move from 3 to 1 was a mediocre forward prospect and a late 2nd (and the 1st came with a mid-3rd).
How did that work out for Florida?

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Old
06-13-2012, 11:31 AM
  #109
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The Oilers are making one hell of a mistake if they are going to draft Murray over Yakupov.

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06-13-2012, 11:31 AM
  #110
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Originally Posted by RipsADrive View Post
How many times has this been repeated...

Oilers defence sucks. We know. The reason it sucks is because we don't have a true #1 and #2 (with Whitney's injuries) and it forces less talented but still good D-men to play more minutes than they should (Petry, Smid, Schultz and Whitney.)

So looking at the above you can see we're well stocked in depth defenceman but what we need badly is a true #1 minute eating D-man. The question is, how will drafting a fresh 18 year-old and acquiring a 5-6 defenceman like Schenn improve our defence for next year? Sure Murray will maybe eventually be able to fill that role but D-men are notoriously slow developers so we'll we just be stuck with 2 more semi-talented depth defenceman for next year.

On the other hand, we can take the top flight winger who is the unanimous best player in the draft to finally get some secondary scoring and continue building a lethal offence which will surely improve the team more than an 18 year old defenceman will.

Contrary to popular belief, the Oilers do have assets besides the kids who have value and Tambellini should look to trade those pieces for a D-man rather than making a toonie for two loonies type deal.
I hear ya, makes sense. Not many 18 year olds can step in and be an impact on defense. However when do you really feel is the time Oilers make a push for playoffs?... Maybe in 2-3 years (certainly not this year coming up, unless major overhaul in offseason)... so by that time that 18 year old will be 20/21.

To the bolded, do you really believe Tambo would be able to land a #1 defender with only giving up "B Level" assets?... I don't. As I am sure you can apperciate #1 and #2 dman (I consdier Whitney a #3 at best)... they don't come cheap. If the Oilers are looking to build a championship team it's obviously something that needs to be addressed.

If the Oilers want that #1 dman they seek, one of RNH/Hall/Eberle/#1 overall would have to be given up... Call me crazy... but I take the 3 Canadian boys all day over Yak.. 0 chance of defecting, not suggesting Yak will do that... but you know the other 3 will never do it.

As I see it, winning the lottery and getting #1 overall is a total unexpected gift the Oilers got and need to capitalize... not draft another high end winger, but shop it and hopefully strike a deal to bring someone in to solidify the backend....

Problem is to get that kind of defender I think it will cost ther #1 overall plus more...

Therefore trading back makes perfect sense... trade back 1-3 spots in a deal where you secure a top defending prospect + swap picks and draft a defender in the #2-5 slot... and in 2-3 years when the Oilers begin to compete for playoffs those 18 year olds will be ready step in and help out.

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06-13-2012, 11:32 AM
  #111
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No thanks from this Jets fan. I'd rather have Bogosian and whomever we get at 9 then just Yakupov.
Yeah. The Jets have no interest in trading for a Franchise winger who will lead their team in scoring for the next 15 years.

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06-13-2012, 11:35 AM
  #112
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If Oilers move down it better be along the lines of...

Tyutin, 2nd Overall

for

First Overall

Jackets have Johnson and Wiz. They can afford to move Tyutin.

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06-13-2012, 11:36 AM
  #113
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Originally Posted by jeh82 View Post
Again, the whole premise of this is that the Oilers do NOT believe there is a major gap between Yakupov and Murray. If they do, they don't trade down at all.

Even so, the difference between this situation and that precedent is not the difference between Samuelson and Tinordi / Beaulieu.

I don't know if the Oilers will trade down, but I do not think they will pick up multiple blue-chip prospects per spot if they do...
Even if the Oilers don't think there is much difference, if they think the other teams value Yakupov higher, then it changes the game significantly. To Edmonton Murray = Yakupov, but if to, for example, Columbus, Yakupov >>>> Murray, then Edmonton will certainly try to make a deal for whatever the ">>>>" is. If that value is a marginal prospect or mid round pick, the Oil probably just don't make the deal at all.

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06-13-2012, 11:38 AM
  #114
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I guess shouldn't be surprised that you have to go all the way to the Maritimes to find a rational Leafs fan.
hahaha THIS.
Thanks, but when it comes to trades, I try to rationalize it as if it were my team drafting. What would I prefer. Yakupov is a potential franchise winger. As people fail to recognize, the Oilers DO have some pieces they can move to get a quality dman. Paajarvi, Hemsky, Hamilton, Omark, Pitlick...That's a decent set of prospects/players that could bring in a quality young defenseman, especially someone that can be a reclamation project.

I think the team to watch out for is the Islanders. Maybe a package of Strome + Hamonic + 4th could get 1st + prospect...

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06-13-2012, 11:38 AM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Okanagan Oil View Post
If Oilers move down it better be along the lines of...

Tyutin, 2nd Overall

for

First Overall

Jackets have Johnson and Wiz. They can afford to move Tyutin.
This seems more realistic than a lot of the "Subban +" type statements. I'll be okay with a deal like this, assuming that Tambellini is taking Murray regardless of whether he trades down or not.

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06-13-2012, 11:39 AM
  #116
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I hear ya, makes sense. Not many 18 year olds can step in and be an impact on defense. However when do you really feel is the time Oilers make a push for playoffs?... Maybe in 2-3 years (certainly not this year coming up, unless major overhaul in offseason)... so by that time that 18 year old will be 20/21.

To the bolded, do you really believe Tambo would be able to land a #1 defender with only giving up "B Level" assets?... I don't. As I am sure you can apperciate #1 and #2 dman (I consdier Whitney a #3 at best)... they don't come cheap. If the Oilers are looking to build a championship team it's obviously something that needs to be addressed.

If the Oilers want that #1 dman they seek, one of RNH/Hall/Eberle/#1 overall would have to be given up... Call me crazy... but I take the 3 Canadian boys all day over Yak.. 0 chance of defecting, not suggesting Yak will do that... but you know the other 3 will never do it.

As I see it, winning the lottery and getting #1 overall is a total unexpected gift the Oilers got and need to capitalize... not draft another high end winger, but shop it and hopefully strike a deal to bring someone in to solidify the backend....

Problem is to get that kind of defender I think it will cost ther #1 overall plus more...

Therefore trading back makes perfect sense... trade back 1-3 spots in a deal where you secure a top defending prospect + swap picks and draft a defender in the #2-5 slot... and in 2-3 years when the Oilers begin to compete for playoffs those 18 year olds will be ready step in and help out.
The problem is it is almost impossible to identify a 1-2 22 year old d-man when they are 18. History tells us that it is exponentially easier to identify a great 22 year old winger when they are 18.

Within the three year window you speak of a team will have an over abundance of good young d-men and trade you one of them plus other assets for your elite winger (like Los Angeles did this past season).

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06-13-2012, 11:39 AM
  #117
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Dredger on 1260 am edmonton this morning said he has no inside information on this he was just theorizing what the Oilers might do close thread/

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06-13-2012, 11:41 AM
  #118
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Dredger on 1260 am edmonton this morning said he has no inside information on this he was just theorizing what the Oilers might do close thread/
So he was "speculating." Why would we close the thread?

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06-13-2012, 11:42 AM
  #119
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If the Oilers scouts believe that Yakupov and Murray are equal, then "unique" would be the politically correct way to describe them.

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06-13-2012, 11:45 AM
  #120
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Yakupov is the best forward hands down in the draft.Is there anyone out there that can say Murray will be the best defenceman in this draft in the long run?

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06-13-2012, 11:50 AM
  #121
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The Oilers need to trade for a #1 defenseman. Trading down is not the way to do that. They're better off making a one-for-one trade for an established defenseman.

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06-13-2012, 11:57 AM
  #122
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The Oilers will be drafting Mackinnon if we do trade the pick and get Murray.

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06-13-2012, 12:06 PM
  #123
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People need to realize that if the Oilers decide to trade down it's unlikely because they think Murray is the best but more likely they realize having three of your top 4 paid players long term cannot be wingers.

Im positive that they look at moving the pick now akin to trading a young star forward with three ELC years to burn.
They would want full value not just some fillers.

They can always trade one of the kids down the line for full value since lets be honest this year isnt the go all in year.

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06-13-2012, 12:07 PM
  #124
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Trade the 1st for Gardiner and the 5th overall pick.

Then draft Reinhart, or Reilly or whoever...or if they think he might go down a couple more slots trade down again.

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06-13-2012, 12:10 PM
  #125
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People need to realize that if the Oilers decide to trade down it's unlikely because they think Murray is the best but more likely they realize having three of your top 4 paid players long term cannot be wingers.

Im positive that they look at moving the pick now akin to trading a young star forward with three ELC years to burn.
They would want full value not just some fillers.

They can always trade one of the kids down the line for full value since lets be honest this year isnt the go all in year.
I don't think future salary has anything to do with it. Who's to say they don't draft Yakupov and trade him part way through the season for defensive help? You don't think about salary and use that as a basis to draft or not draft someone.

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