Not really. Poile is responsible for letting these guys sit and watch as guys like Hartnell, Timenon, and others walk out the door because???
Poile is also responsible for doing absolutely nothing offseason after offseason and then making big moves at the trade deadline one year say "hey were all in"!!!!and expect that to make things right.
I want to see a more aggressive and constant attempt to improve this team over many years before i start believing anything.
Is this a joke? BECAUSE?
First of all, Hartnell, Timonen, Vokoun and Forsberg had to walk because Liepold sold the team out from under Poile in very dramatic, not to mention public, fashion. He "let" Hartnell and Timonen walk to PHI early and got assets back for their inevitable departure. His budget was slashed to the floor and with the very public problems that arose from it, he had to ice a team on a shoestring bugdet, with an owner that wanted out and ended up having to overpay a couple of guys to get to the floor because the circus it turned into was too much for many guys to want to sign here. He did all that, stood by Trotz and in the midst of all of that they got the team into the playoffs all except 1 single year since. And we only missed that season by a point or two. Add in the Boots fiasco that took a season or 2 to get worked out, added more budgetary constraints and I think that in the face of some ridiculous adversity, Poile, and to an extent Trotz, have shown that they can weather the storm, put together a strong team and be a consistent threat.
You may not like it, you might want to ignore extenuating circumstances, but they are facts, and given that he not only did his job, he did it well, signed extensions in the face of monetary issues and has this team on the right track, I think your short-sighted hindsight is a slap in the face. You don't have to agree with his moves, and by all means, be as critical as you want, but ffs at least look at the facts.
I've seen you and several others lambasting him for not getting something done with Suter. Okay, but since there's been a rumored 7-7.5 / 7 years on the table since last fall, done the "things" that Suter insisted on during the season, was aggressive at the deadline (something you wished for a post or 2 up, but called him on at the time) has been in contact with Suter, actually went to Suter's house, has done every single thing he can to get Suter signed, and listened to the things Suter is saying he wants and they all describe Nashville to a "T", and has said the only hold up is Suter, what in the world would you have him do?
There is a faction that likes to ***** about moves the team makes, and I understand it, but these things don't happen in a vacuum, they are real, tangible actions. The misguided angst and disappointment is rampant around here, and honestly, it's made this forum rather un-enjoyable.
Last edited by ThirdManIn: 06-13-2012 at 10:59 AM.
Reason: flaming
It's almost like if there's not perfection, then it's unacceptable. I'm not saying that issues such as that shouldn't be discussed, but some people really need to realize that during a season that lasts about 9 months, there's going to be good times, bad times, some adversity and misfortune. Within the history of the franchise, there are going to be mistakes made and that's just the way it is. It makes the seasons more interesting and well, it's why we frequent message boards like this. Blowing past events out of proportion is not constructive at all. There are a lot of teams that would like to make the playoffs every year....Poile has put us consistently in a great position over the years, especially factoring in the adversity and constraints the team has faced.
Last edited by ThirdManIn: 06-13-2012 at 11:00 AM.
Reason: let's not go there
It's almost like if there's not perfection, then it's unacceptable. I'm not saying that issues such as that shouldn't be discussed, but some people really need to realize that during a season that lasts about 9 months, there's going to be good times, bad times, some adversity and misfortune. Within the history of the franchise, there are going to be mistakes made and that's just the way it is. It makes the seasons more interesting and well, it's why we frequent message boards like this. Blowing past events out of proportion is not constructive at all. There are a lot of teams that would like to make the playoffs every year....Poile has put us consistently in a great position over the years, especially factoring in the adversity and constraints the team has faced.
People are concerned about the direction of the team and frankly, who can blame them? The loss of Suter, the 2nd betrayal of Rads, failed postseason are all things that are going to have long term consequences on the franchise.
We are resilient, we will be back, but I (and others) aren't convinced Trotz is the man to get us there and to some extent and speculation you have to look at this year and say this was our year to really do some damage and we failed to do so besides eliminating Detroit. A lot of people speculated that this up coming year would be the year, but all that hinged on us keeping key players... which we aren't. Therefore, I think some criticism is certainly valid.
Last edited by ThirdManIn: 06-13-2012 at 11:00 AM.
Reason: edited quote and reply
So Dennis Bernstein who is a senior writer Directior of U.S. Operations of a well known very popular hockey magazine "The Fourth Period" is what i bolded and underlined of your statement. I will disagree and just because a Detroit loving website made an article about it also imo does not discredit the information. Detroit seems to have a lot more interested media in day to day operations than media that is Nashville Predator friendly. Not seeing this by a Predator media outlet is no surprise. 1. They probably had no clue it was out there. 2. Like folks on this board they ride the fence and the Predators can do no wrong and anything against the Predators is to much to accept until it actually happens.
Ive said before read the tea leafs. It always starts out as chatter and then boom it happens. You cannot say i have not tried to soften the blow that is going to come soon with Ryan Suter.
I do understand the sketchy league exec and so forth is not concrete data but do you really expect him to name names?
There are plenty of well-known magazines with hardly any credibility, but I guess that's beside the point. And no, I do not expect him to name names, but I will always take "unnamed sources" with a grain of salt, especially in a tweet.
Like I said, Suter may very well be gone. The source may very well be a credible source who expects just that, and maybe they expect it because they were told by someone in the know or they are someone in the know. Still, I try to look at everything surrounding such a rumor, and I'm not going to jump on board based on what I've seen. The same way I won't get too worked up because local bloggers have a similar opinion that he is gone.
The blow may need softening for some, and that's perfectly all right. For me, though, I expect anything to happen. If he signs, awesome. We likely retain our number 1 pairing for a long time. If he doesn't, he can be replaced. I strongly feel Josi is going to be as Suter-esque defenseman. He might not be as good, or he might be better. After all, Josi got to play in the playoffs in his rookie year. Suter did not. (Though that probably had more to do with necessity than anything else. Blum got to play his rookie year, too, and ended up in the A early on in the next season).
Another bonus of Suter leaving is money freed up to spend elsewhere. The draw back is we don't have as many assets to throw towards a trade, but assets are still there. Honestly, if he isn't going to sign I do hope Poile trades his rights. It might keep Suter out of Detroit, and that would be fine with me. The absolute worst case scenario I can think of is Suter landing in Detroit. I don't like the Wild, but at least we aren't in their division (yet). It'd be even better if he went East, but I doubt it. (On a side note: I would be ecstatic and extremely entertained if his rights were traded to Detroit, and then he refused to sign there )
Again, I think right now it's probably 30/70 Suter stays/leaves. I'm not trying to be someone roaming around with rose-colored glasses on, but I will be critical of sources because it's just how I am.
Last edited by ThirdManIn: 06-13-2012 at 10:56 AM.
All right guys, discussion is fine, but let's keep this geared towards Suter. Talking about options we might have if Suter leaves is fine. Pointing towards Poile's history is fine, and disputing a poster's view of that history is fine. Let's not start grouping people into categories, though. It never leads to anything constructive.
Just like Kovy in NJ last year. He wants to explore the market. Just curious but do you have a job? Do you continue to work there? Have you ever explored any other options for other jobs or cities to work in? Just want you to know I'm not trying to attack you by asking these questions but I'm sure you have a job and have looked into other possibilities, why shouldn't Suter see what's out there and do the same? I have a funny feeling he's doing what Kovy did and he'll be back here next year. I think most players realize how great it is to play in Nashville and all things considered, I think Suter wants to kick the tires just to make sure he's making the right decision in the long run for his career and his family.
To the person who said Poile messed up with asset management, if he trades Suter at the deadline, our playoff chances significantly go down. There are risks and Poile is taking one. If Suter re-signs then he got what he wanted all along. If Suter leaves, it's one of those things that we tried to make a run and we needed Suter to do it. I don't see how that's bad asset management.
bull, this is a passive agressive attack on my opinion that suter would have already signed...
it's my opinion and you are attacking me...
Last edited by ThirdManIn: 06-13-2012 at 02:36 PM.
All right guys, discussion is fine, but let's keep this geared towards Suter. Talking about options we might have if Suter leaves is fine. Pointing towards Poile's history is fine, and disputing a poster's view of that history is fine. Let's not start grouping people into categories, though. It never leads to anything constructive.
If this past year/offseason was any indication of how divided our fan base is, I can't imagine how rough it is going to be in here this offseason.
I fear that the loss of Suter is really going to be a kick in the shorts for all of us, don't expect many nice conversations around here.
bull, this is a passive agressive attack on my opinion that suter would have already signed...
it's my opinion and you are attacking me...
If you go by just what you bolded, I'd agree it was an attack but if you read what I wrote after that, I think that explains everything. If you want to take it personally, that's your right but I was trying to draw a parallel between you and Suter and you took it the wrong way. If you want to have an opinion, that's great but when a parallel is given to you about what Suter is doing and comparing it to what you might do in a job search that benefits your career and family, I fail to see how that is any different than what Suter is doing. He is looking at all his options before signing a contract. I think you'd do the same thing all things considered if given that opportunity.
Maybe Suter thinks the grass is greener on the other side and he signs on day 1 and your opinion will be spot on. Say he doesn't sign for a few days or even weeks, maybe he's mulling over all the options and seeing what's best for him and his family. I don't see anything wrong with that considering he's earned that right by playing out his contract for us. Maybe he's back with us, maybe he isn't. I don't think him not signing with us is a clear sign that says he doesn't want to come back. Guys don't get this chance very often in their careers and he's looking at every angle and unturned stone. He's doing what's right for his career and family and if it hurts our team in the process, so be it, I can't fault him for that.
Last edited by ThirdManIn: 06-13-2012 at 02:36 PM.
If this past year/offseason was any indication of how divided our fan base is, I can't imagine how rough it is going to be in here this offseason.
I fear that the loss of Suter is really going to be a kick in the shorts for all of us, don't expect many nice conversations around here.
I'm not sure if this was meant as "I don't expect many nice conversations around here" or if it was "you shouldn't expect many nice conversations around here", but I will say that if Suter leaves the rules still apply. This can be a place for folks to vent their frustrations with Poile, the owners, Suter, etc, but it absolutely will not devolve into senseless attacks on one another. I can guarantee that
First of all, Hartnell, Timonen, Vokoun and Forsberg had to walk because Liepold sold the team out from under Poile in very dramatic, not to mention public, fashion. He "let" Hartnell and Timonen walk to PHI early and got assets back for their inevitable departure. His budget was slashed to the floor and with the very public problems that arose from it, he had to ice a team on a shoestring bugdet, with an owner that wanted out and ended up having to overpay a couple of guys to get to the floor because the circus it turned into was too much for many guys to want to sign here. He did all that, stood by Trotz and in the midst of all of that they got the team into the playoffs all except 1 single year since. And we only missed that season by a point or two. Add in the Boots fiasco that took a season or 2 to get worked out, added more budgetary constraints and I think that in the face of some ridiculous adversity, Poile, and to an extent Trotz, have shown that they can weather the storm, put together a strong team and be a consistent threat.
You may not like it, you might want to ignore extenuating circumstances, but they are facts, and given that he not only did his job, he did it well, signed extensions in the face of monetary issues and has this team on the right track, I think your short-sighted hindsight is a slap in the face. You don't have to agree with his moves, and by all means, be as critical as you want, but ffs at least look at the facts.
I've seen you and several others lambasting him for not getting something done with Suter. Okay, but since there's been a rumored 7-7.5 / 7 years on the table since last fall, done the "things" that Suter insisted on during the season, was aggressive at the deadline (something you wished for a post or 2 up, but called him on at the time) has been in contact with Suter, actually went to Suter's house, has done every single thing he can to get Suter signed, and listened to the things Suter is saying he wants and they all describe Nashville to a "T", and has said the only hold up is Suter, what in the world would you have him do?
There is a faction that likes to ***** about moves the team makes, and I understand it, but these things don't happen in a vacuum, they are real, tangible actions. The misguided angst and disappointment is rampant around here, and honestly, it's made this forum rather un-enjoyable.
Umm Forsberg was obtained in the deal which Nashville Traded Timonen and Hartnell. Forsberg was not going to stay in Nashville. Sure that was part of the firesale but Poile is linked to the damage whether you like it or not. Who was around watching this happen? Suter and Weber. Suter and Weber have also been around for one bs thing after another. Rads, etc etc.
Umm Forsberg was obtained in the deal which Nashville Traded Timonen and Hartnell. Forsberg was not going to stay in Nashville. Sure that was part of the firesale but Poile is linked to the damage whether you like it or not. Who was around watching this happen? Suter and Weber. Suter and Weber have also been around for one bs thing after another. Rads, etc etc.
I sent without finishing.... Suter has also been around while the team has sat around with average to less than average players and went forward year after year. Last summer was a perfect example. Now we are sitting here with no picks in the first and second round and nothing to show for it. Poile seems to have a lot of excuses like people on this board do for him and a lot of others when it comes to the Nashville Predators but i am not buying it anymore. I am going to sit back and wait for his excuses after this summer.
Umm Forsberg was obtained in the deal which Nashville Traded Timonen and Hartnell. Forsberg was not going to stay in Nashville. Sure that was part of the firesale but Poile is linked to the damage whether you like it or not. Who was around watching this happen? Suter and Weber. Suter and Weber have also been around for one bs thing after another. Rads, etc etc.
no he wasnt.
Forsberg was obtained for Upshall, Parent, a first and a third.
Philly sent us that 1st back for the rights to Hartnell and Timonen in late June after leipold had already started the fire sale.
and if Suter and Weber blame Poile for what Leipold made Poile do at that time, then they are both simpletons and we shouldnt assume they can be fair or reasonable about anything
There are plenty of well-known magazines with hardly any credibility, but I guess that's beside the point. And no, I do not expect him to name names, but I will always take "unnamed sources" with a grain of salt, especially in a tweet.Like I said, Suter may very well be gone. The source may very well be a credible source who expects just that, and maybe they expect it because they were told by someone in the know or they are someone in the know. Still, I try to look at everything surrounding such a rumor, and I'm not going to jump on board based on what I've seen. The same way I won't get too worked up because local bloggers have a similar opinion that he is gone.
The blow may need softening for some, and that's perfectly all right. For me, though, I expect anything to happen. If he signs, awesome. We likely retain our number 1 pairing for a long time. If he doesn't, he can be replaced. I strongly feel Josi is going to be as Suter-esque defenseman. He might not be as good, or he might be better. After all, Josi got to play in the playoffs in his rookie year. Suter did not. (Though that probably had more to do with necessity than anything else. Blum got to play his rookie year, too, and ended up in the A early on in the next season).
Another bonus of Suter leaving is money freed up to spend elsewhere. The draw back is we don't have as many assets to throw towards a trade, but assets are still there. Honestly, if he isn't going to sign I do hope Poile trades his rights. It might keep Suter out of Detroit, and that would be fine with me. The absolute worst case scenario I can think of is Suter landing in Detroit. I don't like the Wild, but at least we aren't in their division (yet). It'd be even better if he went East, but I doubt it. (On a side note: I would be ecstatic and extremely entertained if his rights were traded to Detroit, and then he refused to sign there )
Again, I think right now it's probably 30/70 Suter stays/leaves. I'm not trying to be someone roaming around with rose-colored glasses on, but I will be critical of sources because it's just how I am.
No it's not beside the point. The guy is nothing like you described him to be, period. Name a well known hockey much less sports magazine that has "hardley any credibility" ? Tweeting is the new way of journalism. So you do not believe Josh Cooper if he sends it in a tweet because it is a tweet? You will not see anybody name names unless it is public. Thats how the that business runs. Everyone talks but no one names names publicly because it will ruin trust.
I know you are critical and all in favor of the Preds but come its time to be a little more realistic.
Forsberg was obtained for Upshall, Parent, a first and a third.
Philly sent us that 1st back for the rights to Hartnell and Timonen in late June after leipold had already started the fire sale.
and if Suter and Weber blame Poile for what Leipold made Poile do at that time, then they are both simpletons and we shouldnt assume they can be fair or reasonable about anything
I knew they were connected my memory is fading with age. haha
Anyway another stupid move by Poile for a guy who was here for two months. Did he not trade away a first for another guy the year before that. Seems like a pattern to me. Maybe Poile should maybe make a move in the offseason instead of deadline.. HUM....
Forsberg was obtained for Upshall, Parent, a first and a third.
Philly sent us that 1st back for the rights to Hartnell and Timonen in late June after leipold had already started the fire sale.
and if Suter and Weber blame Poile for what Leipold made Poile do at that time, then they are both simpletons and we shouldnt assume they can be fair or reasonable about anything
Exactly Andy ... can't believe some blame Poile for Hartnell and Timonen ... SMH
I knew they were connected my memory is fading with age. haha
Anyway another stupid move by Poile for a guy who was here for two months. Did he not trade away a first for another guy the year before that. Seems like a pattern to me. Maybe Poile should maybe make a move in the offseason instead of deadline.. HUM....
He traded a first for Brenden Witt.
The Forsberg move wasnt stupid. It was a huge statement by the organization that unfortunately didnt work out well, but in the end only cost us Upshall and a 3rd which is no great loss...
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Leipold the one really pressing Poile to go hard after Forsberg anyway? He knew he was in trouble if the team didn't make a deep run, so he wanted to add Forsberg to an already stacked team. It might have worked if not for so many injuries to key players. In retrospect, though, I'm glad it didn't. We might have been stuck with Leipold longer, and it might have ultimately been the demise of the team in Nashville.
I believe the reason we are hearing nothing on the Suter front is because he intends on being a free agent on July 1. The Preds know this, but will not announce this because they hope to trade Suter's rights prior to the draft. As many have said before - just because Suter hits free agency July 1 does not mean he won't entertain a Preds offer.... The problem Poile will have is once other teams get involved is the chance that Suter's price rockets out of a range that is reasonable to a mid-cap team like the Preds.
If you go by just what you bolded, I'd agree it was an attack but if you read what I wrote after that, I think that explains everything. If you want to take it personally, that's your right but I was trying to draw a parallel between you and Suter and you took it the wrong way. If you want to have an opinion, that's great but when a parallel is given to you about what Suter is doing and comparing it to what you might do in a job search that benefits your career and family, I fail to see how that is any different than what Suter is doing. He is looking at all his options before signing a contract. I think you'd do the same thing all things considered if given that opportunity.
Maybe Suter thinks the grass is greener on the other side and he signs on day 1 and your opinion will be spot on. Say he doesn't sign for a few days or even weeks, maybe he's mulling over all the options and seeing what's best for him and his family. I don't see anything wrong with that considering he's earned that right by playing out his contract for us. Maybe he's back with us, maybe he isn't. I don't think him not signing with us is a clear sign that says he doesn't want to come back. Guys don't get this chance very often in their careers and he's looking at every angle and unturned stone. He's doing what's right for his career and family and if it hurts our team in the process, so be it, I can't fault him for that.
it's laughable...
it's my opinion that he's not coming back... it has nothing to do with my life experiences and it has nothing to do with why or what Suter will do, or if it is logical for his family or life. and I haven't faulted him for anything
there is no logical parallel, i don't really see any logic...
so, what in your life has given you the experience to make these assumptions about Suter and what he is doing for his career and family? Just curious, have you ever made a decision about a job and moved? Have you had a good business? Just curious , nothing personal...
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