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Your team's top pairing right-side defenseman to Vancouver

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Old
06-13-2012, 11:18 AM
  #51
wickedwitch
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yossarian54 View Post

2 years ago (almost 3 now). 09-10 was not a happy time for Bieksa, but he has really turned it around. Show me a mid tier player who hasn't been crapped on by a fan base some time in the last 3 years.
I wasn't saying it was unreasonable, just pointing out how quickly things can change.

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Old
06-13-2012, 11:20 AM
  #52
Mystifo
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Originally Posted by nowhereman View Post
Seriously, are you kidding? Kesler is one of, if not the best defensive center in the league and puts up 70+ points a year when he's healthy. "Sub-par" is incredibly off base.

If a team wants Ryan Kesler, they better be prepared to overpay.
I see your Kesler and raise you the following...



- Toews
- Datsyuk
- Kopitar
- M Richards
- Couture
- Getzlaf
- M Koivu


Shall I go on?

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Old
06-13-2012, 11:48 AM
  #53
Cogburn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abhanot View Post
Kesler

for

Phaneuf + 2nd round pick (35th overall)

?
Awful value, no thank you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by abhanot View Post
Are there actually any Leafs defencemen the Canucks would want besides Gardiner? I'll offer Komisarek for a 7th?
No. None. Even Gardiner isn't high on our priority list.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MW6 View Post
Green + Johansson

for Kesler + Ballard

Van: gets their 1RHD, a 21 yo C that had 46pts in his 2nd season and they save +3M in capspace.

Caps: Get their long awaited 2C and a D-man, paid too much, but could benefit from the change of scenary that could play on the second pairing.
Not bad, not bad at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post
Just for fun:

To Vancouver:
Dan Boyle
Ryane Clowe

To SJ:
Alexander Edler
Chris Higgins

Picks to even things out where needed. I think it's fairly decent as is since Edler and Higgins are both UFA's next year while Boyle has two seasons left.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeh82 View Post
...if Boyle was 5 years younger, maybe. But That's pretty poor for Vancouver, unless they really don't believe they can sign Edler long-term.
Make Higgins Raymond and I think I'd be in. As it is, we over pay a little to get older, even if Boyle is still a legit number one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystifo View Post
I see your Kesler and raise you the following...



- Toews
- Datsyuk
- Kopitar
- M Richards
- Couture
- Getzlaf
- M Koivu


Shall I go on?
Datsyuk is the only one with hardware (individual)....and according to the Luongo threads, thats alllllll that counts

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Old
06-13-2012, 11:53 AM
  #54
hockeyball
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cogburn View Post
Make Higgins Raymond and I think I'd be in. As it is, we over pay a little to get older, even if Boyle is still a legit number one.
I wouldn't want Raymond. Keep in mind Higgins and Edler are both on 1 year deals, but I would be willing to throw in something else if need be. a pick or player (Murray, Demers, etc).

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Old
06-13-2012, 11:58 AM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MW6 View Post
Green + Johansson

for Kesler + Ballard

Van: gets their 1RHD, a 21 yo C that had 46pts in his 2nd season and they save +3M in capspace.

Caps: Get their long awaited 2C and a D-man, paid too much, but could benefit from the change of scenary that could play on the second pairing.
I'd do this.

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Old
06-13-2012, 12:00 PM
  #56
Cogburn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post
I wouldn't want Raymond. Keep in mind Higgins and Edler are both on 1 year deals, but I would be willing to throw in something else if need be. a pick or player (Murray, Demers, etc).
Edler, while not being untouchable, is our best defenseman. Is Boyle an improvement? I'd agree he is, but he's also almost a decade older. As for Higgins, he is very, very valuable to our organization because of his price and versatility. Clowe would be sought after, but most Canucks fans covet Higgins more then any similar wingers (similar in terms of pricing and potential position within our organization). Edler for Boyle I feel we lose value on (due to age and cap hit for the remaining year, as well as value to this city), while Higgins for Clowe is almost a wash for me. Murray and Demers don't really thrill me TBH, but if Raymond is out, what about a pick and Rodin in place of Higgins?

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Old
06-13-2012, 12:05 PM
  #57
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To CGY:
David Booth
Keith Ballard

To VAN:
Jay Bouwmeester.

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Old
06-13-2012, 12:13 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cogburn View Post
Edler, while not being untouchable, is our best defenseman. Is Boyle an improvement? I'd agree he is, but he's also almost a decade older. As for Higgins, he is very, very valuable to our organization because of his price and versatility. Clowe would be sought after, but most Canucks fans covet Higgins more then any similar wingers (similar in terms of pricing and potential position within our organization). Edler for Boyle I feel we lose value on (due to age and cap hit for the remaining year, as well as value to this city), while Higgins for Clowe is almost a wash for me. Murray and Demers don't really thrill me TBH, but if Raymond is out, what about a pick and Rodin in place of Higgins?
At the moment, Boyle is definitely an improvement on Edler. Obviously Edler has more value because he's younger, but Boyle is the better defenseman. Think about Boyle and the Sedins playing together for a moment. Jesus.

As for the second part, it depends on the pick.

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Old
06-13-2012, 12:14 PM
  #59
hockeyball
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cogburn View Post
Edler, while not being untouchable, is our best defenseman. Is Boyle an improvement? I'd agree he is, but he's also almost a decade older. As for Higgins, he is very, very valuable to our organization because of his price and versatility. Clowe would be sought after, but most Canucks fans covet Higgins more then any similar wingers (similar in terms of pricing and potential position within our organization). Edler for Boyle I feel we lose value on (due to age and cap hit for the remaining year, as well as value to this city), while Higgins for Clowe is almost a wash for me. Murray and Demers don't really thrill me TBH, but if Raymond is out, what about a pick and Rodin in place of Higgins?
I agree with all that, but they are both on one year deals and due for significant raises with no guarantee we can re-sign them.

I would be hesitant to throw in our 1st (17th overall) but would consider it if you throw in a 2nd maybe. I feel like we are giving up a #1 d-man who still has a lot of hockey left in him (he only had a slight 'down' season because of playing with a broken foot for the first quarter of the season) and several years still left on his contract.

We could throw in Petrecki or Doherty also, our top defensive prospects.

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Old
06-13-2012, 12:19 PM
  #60
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I like how people are putting Raymond and Ballard into trade offers when Nuck fans consider them as a dump.

IMO, i would not want Kesler on my team, dudes the biggest diver and whiner.

Seems like Nuck fans overrate their players most than leaf fans.

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Old
06-13-2012, 12:20 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
At the moment, Boyle is definitely an improvement on Edler. Obviously Edler has more value because he's younger, but Boyle is the better defenseman.
Boyle is ten years older than Edler.

Oh yeah and Edler outscored Boyle last year, so what does Boyle bring to the table that makes him better at this point?

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Old
06-13-2012, 12:22 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Peasy View Post
I like how people are putting Raymond and Ballard into trade offers when Nuck fans consider them as a dump.
Ballard certainly has value and Raymond might too - the Canucks need clear upgrades though, and those players are probably not it. But hey it's the classic "our quantity for your quality" stuff you see on here.

Quote:
IMO, i would not want Kesler on my team, dudes the biggest diver and whiner.
That's nice.

Quote:
Seems like Nuck fans overrate their players most than leaf fans.
That's nice. What exactly are you doing here, again?

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Old
06-13-2012, 12:33 PM
  #63
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How about Hansen for Niskanen?

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Old
06-13-2012, 12:54 PM
  #64
Vankiller Whale
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Alright, an idea for a three way trade(Van-TO-STL)
Van gives: Luongo, Raymond, Edler
Tor gives:Grabovski, 2nd
STL gives: Pietrangelo

STL gets: Grabovski, Tor 2nd, Edler
Tor gets: Luongo, Raymond
Van gets: Pietrangelo

This would be the base, and depending on if it's Pietrangelo or Shattenkirk we can change/add pieces as neccessary.

St. Louis gets a top 6 two-way centreman, a top pairing lefty dman, and an early second.
Toronto gets a top 10 goalie, and a two way winger to help make their forward corps more defensively responsible. Between Galch/Grigs, Kadri, Bozak, and Colborne, I think their top 6 centre positions should be okay.

Van gets a top righty defenseman who can either pair with Ballard or hopefully Garisson if we can sign him.

Again, this would just be a basis for discussion, depending on what people are willing to give up, we can change things as neccessary.


Last edited by Vankiller Whale: 06-13-2012 at 01:58 PM.
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Old
06-13-2012, 01:02 PM
  #65
kthsn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
A
Van gives: Luongo, Raymond, Edler

Van gets:Shattenkirk


Good teams don't have many moving pieces in their off-seasons.

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Old
06-13-2012, 01:23 PM
  #66
MW6
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Originally Posted by Cogburn View Post
Not bad, not bad at all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoulReaper View Post
I'd do this.
So, it's a deal then? It was pretty well thought of in the Caps forum..

Green + Johansson

for

Kesler + Ballard

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Old
06-13-2012, 01:32 PM
  #67
Taelin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MW6 View Post
So, it's a deal then? It was pretty well thought of in the Caps forum..

Green + Johansson

for

Kesler + Ballard
I'd do that. The only thing that scares me is Green's injury problems.

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Old
06-13-2012, 01:33 PM
  #68
Winroba
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystifo View Post
I see your Kesler and raise you the following...



- Toews
- Datsyuk
- Kopitar
- M Richards
- Couture
- Getzlaf
- M Koivu


Shall I go on?
Datsyuk is the only one there who's won the Selke, the award for the best defensive forward, so by definition, Kesler would be the 2nd best defensive forward on that list.

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Old
06-13-2012, 01:35 PM
  #69
Winroba
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Alright, an idea for a three way trade(Van-TO-STL)
Van gives: Luongo, Raymond, Edler
Tor gives:Grabovski, 2nd
STL gives: Pietrangelo(if they're willing) or Shattenkirk

STL gets: Grabovski, Tor 2nd, Edler
Tor gets: Luongo, Raymond
Van gets: Pietrangelo or Shattenkirk

This would be the base, and depending on if it's Pietrangelo or Shattenkirk we can change/add pieces as neccessary.

St. Louis gets a top 6 two-way centreman, a top pairing lefty dman, and an early second.
Toronto gets a top 10 goalie, and a two way winger to help make their forward corps more defensively responsible. Between Galch/Grigs, Kadri, Bozak, and Colborne, I think their top 6 centre positions should be okay.

Van gets a top righty defenseman who can either pair with Ballard or hopefully Garisson if we can sign him.

Again, this would just be a basis for discussion, depending on what people are willing to give up, we can change things as neccessary.
So Canucks give Luongo, Raymond and Edler and get Shattenkirk? Edler is better and worth more than Shattenkirk alone.

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Old
06-13-2012, 01:39 PM
  #70
GoTeamDom
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Originally Posted by nowhereman View Post
Seriously, are you kidding? Kesler is one of, if not the best defensive center in the league and puts up 70+ points a year when he's healthy. "Sub-par" is incredibly off base.

If a team wants Ryan Kesler, they better be prepared to overpay.
Kesler is great on defensively, very good on faceoffs and has found a role on the #1PP with the Sedins. He generates speed in the neutral zone well and has an above average wrist shot.

Kesler also plays 23+ mins a night in an offensive role and has been on a helicopter line for at least the last three seasons. He has one move (skate across the blueline, deke and wrist shot) that hasn't been very effective for 2 seasons. He has average hands and below average passing and vision.

"If we could only find some decent linemates for Kesler!" is the mantra of the Canuck fan. Yet before this offseason, almost nobody even dared to suggest Kesler is the problem on his line.

On most teams, he would be the #1C playing 25mins in all situations, collecting 60+ points along the way. We don't need that in Vancouver. We have an elite passer (Henrik) and one pure scorer (Daniel), 7 other second/third line tweeners and Ryan Kesler. We would be better off with two playmaking centres down the middle considering the skillsets of the rest of the forward group, especially considering that Ryan Kesler's main assets are diluted in a pool of two-way, 20 goal forwards.

Raymond is faster than Kesler. Burrows and Hansen are arguably better defensively than Kesler. Malholtra is better on faceoffs than Kesler, and provides more veteran leadership than Kesler. Kassian is a better hitter and fighter than Kesler. Lapierre is a better agitator than Kesler, and all 9 forwards on the depth chart below Kesler make less money than he does.

Keep in mind that IMO the "playmaking winger" is the 3rd most difficult player to find next to the "true power forward" and "big playmaking centre." So simply grabbing a playmaking winger isn't as easily said than done.

Looking at the 2nd line in a vaccuum, from an offensive standpoint, the Canucks would be better off using a playmaking centre to play with Booth and Higgins. Or upgrading the wing while "downgrading" the 2C in value.

Obviously we can't go out and acquire a Thornton, Backstrom, Spezza, RNH, Crosby or Briere, but having a 2nd line centred by Stastny, McDonald, Roy, Grabovski, or Johansson would give the Canucks a more potent 1-2 punch. Admittedly Hodgson would slot in here fairly well too, but what is done is done.

Right now Canucks fans just pray that Kesler finds "2011 2nd round vs Nashville beast mode" if the Sedins are in a slump.

I guess to stay on topic: Kesler and Ballard for Green and Johansson.


Last edited by GoTeamDom: 06-13-2012 at 01:45 PM.
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Old
06-13-2012, 01:40 PM
  #71
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To VAN

Green + Mojo, + something else

To WSH

Kesler + Tanev

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Old
06-13-2012, 01:40 PM
  #72
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I'd do that. The only thing that scares me is Green's injury problems.
I understand, but he had succesful sports hernia-surgery in january and should be able to put in a full summer of off-season workout. Baring any freak accidents I'd say those days are behind him.

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Old
06-13-2012, 01:44 PM
  #73
Vankiller Whale
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Originally Posted by Winroba View Post
So Canucks give Luongo, Raymond and Edler and get Shattenkirk? Edler is better and worth more than Shattenkirk alone.
Well I made it originally with Pietrangelo. If it's Shattenkirk then we could do a swap of Edler for Shattenkirk+.

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Old
06-13-2012, 01:45 PM
  #74
Taelin
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Well I made it originally with Pietrangelo. If it's Shattenkirk then we could do a swap of Edler for Shattenkirk+.
If we can get Pietrangelo for Edler, I'd laugh all the way to next season while the Blues fans try to lynch their GM.

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Old
06-13-2012, 01:45 PM
  #75
Vankiller Whale
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MW6 View Post
So, it's a deal then? It was pretty well thought of in the Caps forum..

Green + Johansson

for

Kesler + Ballard
Although I'd be okay with this too.

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