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New Jersey Devils are NOT forfeiting 1st round pick 2012

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Old
06-13-2012, 12:33 PM
  #76
Oroku Saki*
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I would have gave it up but there is little chance we go back to being a crappy team. People can say what they want about Brodeur leaving but for the past two regular seasons he has been an average at best goaltender. Him leaving will be sad on an emotional level but he can be replaced from a technical standpoint. Lou and his scouts have a better idea of what to do then a bunch of people on a message board.

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Old
06-13-2012, 12:33 PM
  #77
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If they did forfeit their pick, who would end up using it? Winnipeg?

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06-13-2012, 12:48 PM
  #78
EnglishDevil
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In reality this move isn't as confusing as it may first appear, here are some points people might not have considered:

1) The ultimatum we were given meant forfeiting a 1st round pick in one of the four upcoming drafts; it was issued before last years draft which means this years draft is the second of four in which they have to concede and give up the pick. Ergo, 2013 and 2014 are both still options for us, rather than just 2013 as some people have suggested.

2) We were just in the cup finals, this is a move by management to show that not only do they faith that our appearance there wasn't merely a fluke; but also that in our current win now mentality we value the addition of talent to our roster immediately, or at least sooner rather than one or two years down the road.

3) Our forward cupboard is pretty bare, and with Elias, Zubrus and Sykora being far from spring chickens; coupled with Henrique and Josefson already graduating from "prospect" status and Tedenby being far from a sure thing, we really could use some additional talent in the pipeline up front and ready in the next couple of seasons. Although our pick might be lower in 2013 or 2014, that's another 1 or 2 seasons before that prospect is even in our system and subsequently longer before they can make an NHL impact.

4) There is no guarantee that future drafts are going to be deeper; nor is there a guarantee that the pick we make in 2013 or 2014 will pan out. In reality drafting isn't an exact science and 2012 is far from a bad draft to keep a pick in. We could easily forfeit this pick and pick a bust in 2013; or pick a gem this year and forfeit next years pick. The difference between later round picks (15 and onwards) isn't as profound as some people would have you believe, and in reality after our performance this year i'd be shocked if management expected us to be getting another top 10 pick anytime soon.

5) Deferring the pick another year or two also gives management added flexibility to potentially acquire a replacement first (or another higher pick) for the year we intend to forfeit. Although i'm sure the deadline to forfeit hardly caught them by surprise, a lot can change in one or two seasons in the NHL and standing pat and seeing how things pan out isn't necessarily the worst decision in the world. Although it isn't likely, a few fans on our forum appear to believe that the upcoming CBA negotiations might potentially lead to this penalty being revoked (although i won't use this as a main point because it's personally far from my area of expertise). Either way it is another potential reason to not rush to forfeit our pick this year.

In short, this move isn't really surprising, nor is it going to handicap our franchise in any significant fashion. Although with hindsight we might look back to realise the pick we make at 29 didn't work out for us; it is a virtual guarantee that at least a few other teams picking before us will probably suffer that very same misfortune.

- EnglishDevil

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06-13-2012, 12:56 PM
  #79
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Wow that is surprising.

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Old
06-13-2012, 01:00 PM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EnglishDevil View Post
In reality this move isn't as confusing as it may first appear, here are some points people might not have considered:

1) The ultimatum we were given meant forfeiting a 1st round pick in one of the four upcoming drafts; it was issued before last years draft which means this years draft is the second of four in which they have to concede and give up the pick. Ergo, 2013 and 2014 are both still options for us, rather than just 2013 as some people have suggested.

2) We were just in the cup finals, this is a move by management to show that not only do they faith that our appearance there wasn't merely a fluke; but also that in our current win now mentality we value the addition of talent to our roster immediately, or at least sooner rather than one or two years down the road.

3) Our forward cupboard is pretty bare, and with Elias, Zubrus and Sykora being far from spring chickens; coupled with Henrique and Josefson already graduating from "prospect" status and Tedenby being far from a sure thing, we really could use some additional talent in the pipeline up front and ready in the next couple of seasons. Although our pick might be lower in 2013 or 2014, that's another 1 or 2 seasons before that prospect is even in our system and subsequently longer before they can make an NHL impact.

4) There is no guarantee that future drafts are going to be deeper; nor is there a guarantee that the pick we make in 2013 or 2014 will pan out. In reality drafting isn't an exact science and 2012 is far from a bad draft to keep a pick in. We could easily forfeit this pick and pick a bust in 2013; or pick a gem this year and forfeit next years pick. The difference between later round picks (15 and onwards) isn't as profound as some people would have you believe, and in reality after our performance this year i'd be shocked if management expected us to be getting another top 10 pick anytime soon.

5) Deferring the pick another year or two also gives management added flexibility to potentially acquire a replacement first (or another higher pick) for the year we intend to forfeit. Although i'm sure the deadline to forfeit hardly caught them by surprise, a lot can change in one or two seasons in the NHL and standing pat and seeing how things pan out isn't necessarily the worst decision in the world. Although it isn't likely, a few fans on our forum appear to believe that the upcoming CBA negotiations might potentially lead to this penalty being revoked (although i won't use this as a main point because it's personally far from my area of expertise). Either way it is another potential reason to not rush to forfeit our pick this year.

In short, this move isn't really surprising, nor is it going to handicap our franchise in any significant fashion. Although with hindsight we might look back to realise the pick we make at 29 didn't work out for us; it is a virtual guarantee that at least a few other teams picking before us will probably suffer that very same misfortune.

- EnglishDevil
+1 /endthread but this is Hockey's Future and there's just a mentality that people can't see through.

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Old
06-13-2012, 01:06 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by PensFan101 View Post
+1 /endthread but this is Hockey's Future and there's just a mentality that people can't see through.
At the end of the day this news doesn't majorly affect the other fanbases anyway, and on our board we're merely celebrating that we're actually going to be picking someone this year. It's far from doom and gloom I just thought i'd try to put all of those caring outside fans worries to rest and let them know the sky is not falling in New Jersey

- EnglishDevil

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06-13-2012, 01:16 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by SvenBartschi27 View Post
But not quite as bad as Seguin, Hamilton, and Rask for Kessel
Rask wasn't part of the Kessel trade and this has nothing to do with Gormley or NJ's first round picks.

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Old
06-13-2012, 01:17 PM
  #83
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If this is true it's a huge mistake by the Devils.

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06-13-2012, 01:18 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grant123 View Post
We laugh now (I really do think this is a dumb move) but I won't make and judgement calls for a couple years still (at which point we will have all forgotten about it haha), never know if you will strike gold. There is a reason GMs get paid to do this stuff and we are in front of our computers.
Yeah. They used to play in the NHL, and we haven't.

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Old
06-13-2012, 01:23 PM
  #85
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Well if they assume that they will be picking in the bottom 3rd of the first round for the next few years (Which they likely will be) Then I don't see the problem. There isn't all that much that separates pick 30 from pick 23.

Sure, 2013 might be a deeper draft, but I remember people telling me the 2012 draft was gonna be a deep draft and now in these few months preceding it, people are saying it's a weak draft. Whose to say that won't happen with the 2013 draft?

This would only be a big deal if NJ had to pick between forfeiting a top 5 pick this year or top 5 pick next year. Then there could be some debate and controversy. But if they are picking in the bottom 10, it doesn't really matter...

Just watch, they're gonna draft a superstar at 29

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06-13-2012, 01:24 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Boogeymane View Post
If they did forfeit their pick, who would end up using it? Winnipeg?
No one, the draft would just have one less pick. LA would be picking at 29 instead of 30

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06-13-2012, 01:34 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by pman25 View Post
Well if they assume that they will be picking in the bottom 3rd of the first round for the next few years (Which they likely will be) Then I don't see the problem. There isn't all that much that separates pick 30 from pick 23.

Sure, 2013 might be a deeper draft, but I remember people telling me the 2012 draft was gonna be a deep draft and now in these few months preceding it, people are saying it's a weak draft. Whose to say that won't happen with the 2013 draft?

This would only be a big deal if NJ had to pick between forfeiting a top 5 pick this year or top 5 pick next year. Then there could be some debate and controversy. But if they are picking in the bottom 10, it doesn't really matter...

Just watch, they're gonna draft a superstar at 29
In reality the risk of missing out on an unusually high pick isn't quite as bad as people seem to believe. We definitely need to get a few forward prospects in the pipeline and developing, and it's better to do that sooner rather than later as we are desperately thin at that position in our prospect pool and some of our older players might be considering retirement within a few seasons. Hence why we've kept this pick.

It's better to draft a player at 29 this season because holding out and hoping our pick improves a few places next season means waiting another entire year before that player is even in the system / ready to play in the NHL. If on the flip side the wheels fall off our bus next year and we end up picking ridiculously high, well we'll just keep that pick too and sacrifice our 2014 pick instead. Conversely, if our pick is in the 20's again next season, we'll likely just part with that one and our net gain will be having a late first round prospect either way, just a year older and a year sooner to being ready to enter the fray.

We'll bite the bullet at some point, but in reality it just makes sense to do it later rather than right now, it's not like we're risking losing out on a top 5 pick next season or anything should disaster strike.

- EnglishDevil

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06-13-2012, 03:14 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by EnglishDevil View Post
Although it isn't likely, a few fans on our forum appear to believe that the upcoming CBA negotiations might potentially lead to this penalty being revoked (although i won't use this as a main point because it's personally far from my area of expertise).
i dont think thats posible.
i remember reading here(?) that no suspension, fine, or penalty from the previous CBA can be lifted or "pardoned" during the new negotiations or the agreed upon new CBA.

( ive looked for that thread and cant find it which leads me to believe i saw it on a different site.)

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06-13-2012, 03:19 PM
  #89
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My guess is that Lou goofed and messed this one up. Similar to Tallon's mistakes in Chicago.

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06-13-2012, 03:23 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by PensFan101 View Post
+1 /endthread but this is Hockey's Future and there's just a mentality that people can't see through.
Give me a ****ing break. They could lose a lottery pick out of this. And if that happens, this could be one of the most legendary **** ups by a GM in the history of the game. It's worth discussing.

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06-13-2012, 03:27 PM
  #91
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Seems like a goofy move considering how deep the 2013 draft is supposed to be, and how late they're picking this year.
People are always saying that next years draft is deep. It may be true, but it's become a cliche...

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06-13-2012, 03:29 PM
  #92
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Bottom line, they just put themselves in the line of fire and better make something big out of this selection or they are going to be trashed and laughed at for it, and rightfully so, for a long time.

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06-13-2012, 03:29 PM
  #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vipernsx View Post
My guess is that Lou goofed and messed this one up. Similar to Tallon's mistakes in Chicago.
your guess is wrong.

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06-13-2012, 03:38 PM
  #94
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Devils want to draft one of Vasilevski, Subban or Dansk...

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06-13-2012, 03:54 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by EnglishDevil View Post
At the end of the day this news doesn't majorly affect the other fanbases anyway, and on our board we're merely celebrating that we're actually going to be picking someone this year. It's far from doom and gloom I just thought i'd try to put all of those caring outside fans worries to rest and let them know the sky is not falling in New Jersey

- EnglishDevil
very good input, appreciate it.

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06-13-2012, 04:25 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by coldsteelonice84 View Post
Give me a ****ing break. They could lose a lottery pick out of this. And if that happens, this could be one of the most legendary **** ups by a GM in the history of the game. It's worth discussing.
First of all, no ones going to give you a ****ing break, hater.

Second off, wtf are you talking about. We're not going to be a lottery team, no matter how much your sad little mind wishes for it and WE STILL HAVE 2 OTHERS DRAFTS TO CHOOSE FROM...holy christ.

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Old
06-13-2012, 06:06 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by coldsteelonice84 View Post
Bottom line, they just put themselves in the line of fire and better make something big out of this selection or they are going to be trashed and laughed at for it, and rightfully so, for a long time.
The selection is not the most important part for future trashing and laughing, the Devils position in the standings the next two seasons is. If they have another season like 10/11, all hell will break lose, but if they are a playoffteam there is nothing to trash and laugh about.

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Old
06-13-2012, 06:33 PM
  #98
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Lou sucks. how could he he do this? The franchise would never be the same. I can't believe that scrub of a GM. We didn't even win the cup this year. Fire his ass how many times has be been proven right? ZERO! Conte too, when was the last time he drafted anybody worth a damn... oh that's right...NEVER! The guy we pick is definitely gonna be a bust. no doubt about it. We're gonna be stuck with Erik Rasmussens our whole life. God get these no talent ass clowns out of the Front Office

DAMN YOU LOU DAMN YOU! take your 5 finals apprences in 15 years and shove it right up there with your HoF induction too

just in case you guys didn't know...seriously some of you are hysterical They found a player like Henrique in the third round, and guys like Rafalski and Clarkson that didn't even get drafted, and you guys are questioning their opinions stating yours are 100% right and better. Only HF

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Old
06-13-2012, 06:42 PM
  #99
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Watch they will pick a goalie this year. Zach Parise will leave the team. In 2013, they won't forfeit. Brodeur will retire. The new goalie wont be ready. In 2014 they will have 1st overall pick.

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Old
06-13-2012, 06:47 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by Setting up the play View Post
People are always saying that next years draft is deep. It may be true, but it's become a cliche...
Except 2011. I seem to recall tons of talk about how shallow it was going to be, until the draft actually came around and suddenly it was relatively deep.

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